Baptism Query

[Kit]

My 2g grandma, Julia Ann Walmsley, was born in 1852 and baptised 18/10/1852 at Newcastle under Lyme Staffs.

Julia's mother is Elizabeth, no father is named on the birth cert or baptism record (I looked at the film).

Elizabeth's next 2 children are registered as Sarah and William Hawkins Walmsley in 1855 and 1858. Sarah was baptised 5/2/1855 and I can't find William online although I thought I had previously.

Elizabeth marries William Hawkins in 1860.

The couple go on to have more children Elizabeth 1860, James 1863, Eliza Jane 1866, Samuel Ernest 1869 and Arthur H 1873.

I've just been looking on ancestry's England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906 and found baptisms for the last 4 children. Can't find Elizabeth b 1860 anywhere.

I also found a baptism for Julia Ann Hawkins in 1861.
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=0&f4=&f3=hawkins&sx=&rg_f77__date=&rs_f77__date=5&f44=staffordshire&f14=william&f13=&f20=elizabeth&f19=&gskw=&prox=1&db=bivri_englandbirth&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=34&fh=5&h=4341279&recoff=3+27+38

Do you think that Julia may have been rebaptised as she did not have the name of Hawkins in her name previously? Or is it just coincidence?

Julia marries as Julia Ann Hawkins Walmsley and names William as her father on the marriage cert.

[HarrysMum]

Hi Kit.....I don't have Ancestry anymore so can't look. I suppose you've looked at the obvious to see if the 1861 baptism has a father???

[Kit]

Yes it says father William Hawkins, mother Elizabeth.

This is what it says:

Name: Julia Ann Hawkins
Gender: Female
Birth Date: abt 1861
Christening Date: 8 Sep 1861
Christening Place: Newcastle-Under-Lyne, Staffordshire, England
Father's Name: William Hawkins
Mother's Name: Elizabeth

Source Citation: Place: Newcastle-Under-Lyne, Staffordshire, England; Collection: St Giles; -; Date Range: 1846 - 1877; Film Number: 1040775.

The other 4 all have the same parents. This Julia is baptised where the parents were married. They move before they have the others and they are baptised at the local church.

[JessBow]

My thought is that Mr Hawkins was possibly father to them all,and if not all, then decided to take first child as his own , so re-christen her.

Maybe he was a bad lad that was married to someone else at the time of birth of the pre marriage children?

[HarrysMum]

Looks good. Have you checked if there is another Julia Hawkins anywhere? Pain being 1861 (1860) would have been better to check census. 1871????

Or maybe check to see if there's another Elizabeth and William on the 1861?

[Kit]

There is actually an older child to Julia, his name is Joseph. I can't find a birth reg or baptism for him and I have posted about this family before. Joseph does not appear to be rebaptised although he is put as a Hawkins on the census I can find him on, once they are married.

I'll double check the marriage cert Jess but I think he says he was single and he was found living nearby on earlier census.

[Kit]

Definitely says bachelor on the marriage cert.

[Tom Tom]

I have something similar, with a couple having several children before they were married.

All the boys had his surname as a middle name but the girls didn't. The couple then married and all the children were known by his surname.