View Full Version : Samuel John Collins
Name - "official" name and what they were known as
Samuel John Collins
Date and place of birth
26 Oct 1848, 15 Salisbury Mews, Marylebone, London
Names of parents
Samuel Collins and Sarah Harriett King
Date and place of baptism - if applicable
Details of each of his or her marriages - if any
should be one to Harriet Powell - mother of his children - unable to find
Occupation(s) - if any
carpenter - on daughter's birth cert Dec 1885
packing case maker - children's birth certs , 1891 census, death cert
Military service - if any
Addresses where they lived - and please list which censuses you have or haven't found him/her on.
15 Salisbury Mews, Marylebone - birth, 1851 and 1861 census
54 Crawford St, Marylebone - 24 Apr 1883, 31 Dec 1885: childrens birth certs
45 Shouldham St, Marylebone - 3 Mar 1889: childs birth cert
27 Croyden St, Marylebone - 1891 census
not found on 1871 and 1881 census when presumably unmarried adult male
Date, place and cause of death
3 Oct 1891, 26 Croydon St, Marylebone
Syncope; Hoemorrhage; Rupture of blood vessel in lungs; Phthisis; Natural
Date and place of burial / cremation.
Details of will / administration of their estate - if applicable
Memorial inscription - if any
ElizabethHerts
25-05-10, 18:29
1871 Census
With his brother Charles
ANDREWS, Levi Head M 41 1830 Cambridgeshire
ANDREWS, Sophia Wife F 39 1832 Buckinghamshire
ANDREWS, Joshua Son M 7 1864 Middlesex
ANDREWS, Eliza Daughter F 4 1867 Middlesex
BEDFORD, Henry Servant M 11 1860 Middlesex
COLLINS, Samuel Lodger M 22 1849 Middlesex
COLLINS, Charles Lodger M 20 1851 Middlesex
BUCKLAND, Edward Lodger M 38 1833 Middlesex
BUCKLAND, Louisia Lodger F 28 1843 Middlesex
BUCKLAND, Catherine Lodger F 6 1865 Middlesex
BUCKLAND, Harriet Lodger F 3 1868 Middlesex
BUCKLAND, James Lodger M 0 1871 Middlesex
RG number: RG10 Piece: 169 Folio: 81 Page: 39
Address:
Walmer St, Marylebone County:
London, Middlesex
Thanks Elizabeth.
I did see that one but the occupations put me off - egineer (engineer?) and fitter. Their father was a carpenter and later Samuel was a carpenter too. So I don't know, is this them or not?
Lynda
kiterunner
25-05-10, 19:08
His baptism is in the LMA records on ancestry:
Samuel John Collins born 26 Oct 1848, baptised 16 Jun 1850 St Mary, Paddington Green, Westminster, parents Samuel & Sarah Collins of Short Street, Maida Hill, father's occupation Carpenter. His brother Charles George born 13th May 1850 was baptised on the same day.
I can't find his marriage to Harriet anywhere.
Thanks so much!
I have had no luck looking for the marriage either and believe me I have tried. Have almost come to the conclusion they never married. Although the birth certificates of all three children have the mother as Harriet Collins formerly Powell, which leads one to believe they did marry. But I'll keep looking.
Lynda
Bear in mind the most common reason for not finding a marriage is that one party (or both lol) had already tied the knot with someone else already.
Wow, Merry, did not know that. Some time ago I had checked the indexes and cross referenced all the Samuel Collins entries against all the Harriet Powell entries hoping to find a match and there were actually quite a few entries for each of them. Had not thought of either of them actually marrying someone else. And I guess the only way to know for sure would be to purchase each certificate that seemed likely to see who the father is. Maybe I'll just forget it ... until I win the lottery!
Lynda
Samuel was in his 30s by the time is first child was born. It might well simple if we could positively identify him in 1881 as I would guess if he was married before he would be married at that date.
Another possibility might be that he was in the army during the missing years and he might even have married abroad.
Where are Harriet and the children in 1901?
Was Harriet born in Luton?
Harriet was born in Luton, and I have her birth certificate as well as those of her siblings.
After Samuel died, Harriet was unable to care for the children .. I think they were very poor, just my impression .. and the children were placed into 'homes'. One of these was my grandmother, and she eventually was brought to Canada as part of a group noted on the passenger list as 'Miss Ryes party'. Her brother was in another home, don't know which one and apparently he kept running away; my grandmother lost touch and never saw or heard from him again after she came to Canada. The third child .. not sure, didn't show up in 1901. Anyway, back to Harriet. She remarried in 1893 .. have that certificate as well, and she died Jan 1, 1900.
Yes, Samuel would have been 34-35 when son Charles was born, and Harriet would have been 26, so possible either or both could have been married before. Where would I look to find army records?
When I checked the 1881 census I was looking for a bachelor, so I will go back and look again and see where I get to. Isn't it funny how your mind gets in a rut and doesn't think of the most obvious things? Ah well, story of my life.
Lynda
Have you found Harriet in 1881?
kiterunner
26-05-10, 22:38
Lynda, can I ask where you got the census image from, please? If it was from a subscription website or a CD, for instance, it shouldn't be posted up on here.
Oh, sorry, it was ancestry. I'll try and delete it.
Lynda
Could not delete the attachment, so deleted the message. Copied the text here:
I have Harriet on all the census returns, 1861 thru 1881 with her parents and 1891 with Samuel and their children. Mind, on the 1881 she is squeezed in between her mother and the next line, almost as an afterthought.
Lynda
Given that was only a couple of years before her first child with Samuel,. I guess if either of them was already married then it's more likely to be Samuel.
Not that that helps at all!!
Do you know what happened to Samuel's brother, Charles George?
Given that was only a couple of years before her first child with Samuel,. I guess if either of them was already married then it's more likely to be Samuel.
Not that that helps at all!!
Well maybe a tiny little bit .. if I have to start shelling out for certs it should only be for possible marriages of one person rather than two .. small comfort!
Do you know what happened to Samuel's brother, Charles George?
No, I have no idea. A couple of years ago when I was working on this line it seemed to be impossible .. it's such a common name. And then, I was having some success with tracking back on Harriet's side so it didn't seem such a big deal not to know what happened with Samuel's brother. Now with all the new info on ancestry maybe it's time to give it another go.
Lynda
Well maybe a tiny little bit .. if I have to start shelling out for certs it should only be for possible marriages of one person rather than two .. small comfort!
Before shelling out for certs you should always try looking for couples on the following census and also cross referencing with the wife's age and place of birth and maiden name on the previous census. Obviously you probably won't be able to eliminate every couple, but should be able to reduce the list a bit. Oh, and check the marriages you are examining are not on the LMA records on ancestry - you might be able to eliminate some from the father's details.
I can't find a definite match for Charles in 1881 nor an obvious death for him at all, with his full name.
Thanks for all your help and advice, Merry. And to Kiterunner for reminding me about not posting images from ancestry .. don't know where my head was when I did that.
Right now I am actually trying to get thru another part of the family before I go visiting cousins in June, so will be getting back to the Collins' later.
Lynda
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