Isabella Shepherd.

[alisondaviesbell]

Hi All,
I have hit another brick wall and would like some help please!!

My Great grandmother was Isabella Shepherd. Born In Garston, Liverpool.
(i believe she was disowned at some point after 1891, by her family, although i don't know why)

On the 1911 Census, I've found her married to my paternal Great grandfather Benjamin Davies.
his occupation was a carter and he was born in Prestatyn, Flintshire.
They had been married for 8 years.
And where living in Shore Cottage, Fulwood Park, Aigburth. with George Baker age 70 who was a brickmaker.
They have two children already Mary Davies aged 5 and Edward Davies aged 2.
And she pregnant with my granddad at the time as he was born on November 11th 1911. His name was George Frederick Davies
Her age on this census was 29. so i guess her birth year was 1882.

Then I can't find her anywhere on the 1901 Census. It is this census that has me completly stumped!

I have on the 1901 Census, who i think was her father William Shepherd. at High Park street, Toxteth Park,
Which i know from my dad was a at some point a family address.
His occupation was a Ship Smith,
he is also living with his sons William J Shepherd aged 21, John Shepherd aged 18
and his daughter Ann Jane Shepherd 31 (who was from a previous marrage, i believe William married 3 times to 1st to Ellen, then Ann and then finally to suzannah)

When i trace William Shepherd to the 1891 Census, (he is the only Shepherd i could find in the census living with a daughter called Isabella)
the rest of the names and William Shepherds occupation of shipsmith would tie in to the 1901 census
However her age on this census Isabellas age is 14, making her birth year about 1877

Is it possible that her age could be our by about 5 years? this seems like a lot.

I have tried to include all the information i know incase someone out there knows something!
Any help finding her in the 1901 Census would be great!
Thanks
Alison

[Phoenix]

By the time of the 1901 census, Isabella would be a teenager. She could well be out in service somewhere,so not easily spotted as her employers may have been less than accurate when entering her details on the census.

[Phoenix]

btw, you don't say, have you got her marriage cert, to confirm father's name?

[kiterunner]

Is it possible that her age could be our by about 5 years? this seems like a lot.


It's quite common to find that people, especially women, have knocked a few years off their age on the census. I've come across a few who have knocked off more than 10 years! Usually, the younger they are the more accurate their age is, especially children.

[alisondaviesbell]

Hi Phoenix,
No i don't have her marrage or birth cert,
but i am fairly certain that William Shepherd is her father,
I have traced him back quite some way and birth places and names and occupations tie in with things my dad remembers hearing as a child.
Isabella was his grandmother so he spent a lot of time with her when he a child.

[kiterunner]

If you get the marriage certificate then it should give you Isabella's age when she got married, though it may well just say "Full age" which means 21 or over. Of course it wasn't unknown for people to lie about their age on the marriage certificate too, though.

[ElizabethHerts]

Alison, you need to buy the certificate to avoid wild goose chases!

Marriages Mar 1903
DAVIES Benjamin
Shepherd Isabella
W. Derby 8b 780

[Phoenix]

On the 1911 census, Isabella had three living children, but only two with her. Do you know who the third one was?

Even if the details your family give you tally with what you've found on censuses, certificates may give you extra details.

My guess would be that Isabella is in Toxeth area in 1901, just hiding!

[ElizabethHerts]

As Phoenix says, certificates can provide interesting extra details - the witnesses, the fathers' names and occupations, etc. Also the occupations of the spouses.

[Merry]

I agree with everyone else about getting the marriage certificate to be certain about William.

If her place of birth is correct though, this is the only birth reg I can find 1875 -1885:

Births Sep 1876
SHEPHERD Isabella W. Derby 8b 620

which fits with this 1881 census:

William SHEPHERD Head M 42 Shipsmith Liverpool, Lancashire
Ann Jane SHEPHERD Wife M 30 Dressmaker Liverpool, Lancashire
William J. SHEPHERD Son U 19 m Liverpool, Lancashire
Isabella SHEPHERD Dau U 4 Liverpool, Lancashire
Catherine BRIDSON Boarder U 51 Dressmaker Liverpool, Lancashire

7 Head St Toxteth Park, Liverpool

[Merry]

My grandmother knocked off four years from her age when she was 25 and maintained this new age (on passports etc too) until she was 76 at which point she became 80, without anyone daring to say a word!

Do you know when Isabella died?

[Merry]

There's an Isabella Sheppard (that spelling) aged 22 in Prestatyn in 1901 - she is a servant. Says she is b in Scotland, which she may well be of course, but it was the Prestatyn connection that made me look!

Oh, Benjamin is four pages away - district 8 page 13 and Isabella district 8 page 9!

[alisondaviesbell]

HI,
I will get the wedding cert, stupid question but how do i do that?
I also noticed the detail about the 3 surving children yet only 2 where living with her at the time and thought it was strange... she did go on to have more children as you can see below talking to my dad about this and he gave me details of a family grave in Allerton Cemetary.

9/3/1918, Edna Margaret Davies, age 15months

6/4/1923 Benjamin Davies, age 47

20/01/1928 Edward Gillbank Davies, age 18

01/10/1957 Isabella Davies, aged 82

But My granddad and Edna where born after 1911 census so she couldn't have been refering to either of them. so i now am intreiged to find out who and where this 3rd surviving child is there any way i can do this that you know of?

My dad remembers something about Scotland and we wonder if this could have been a smoke screen of some sort,
what details does the marrage certificate have on it?

Thanks for all your help so far!

[Merry]

01/10/1957 Isabella Davies, aged 82


That's closer to the birth reg than her age in 1911!

You can get the marriage cert by filling in this form:

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/cgi/pma.cgi?date=1903&county=lancashire&reference=LL%3AREG_WD%2F204%2F155&file=D&pos=23860&surname=SHEPHERD&forename=Isabella&area=LL

[Merry]

If their name was something rarer than Davies or if the children had been born somewhere where the local reg office has indexed the mother's maiden name before 1912, then you might be able to get a name for the missing child and then look for them on the 1911 census. However that isn't going to be so easy unless they turn out to be with another family member who you can identify.

[kiterunner]

Hmmmm.... Edward's baptism is on the FamilySearch Record Search pilot site:
Edward Gillbanks Davies born 24 March 1909, christened 2 May 1909 St Mary's, Wavertree, Liverpool, parents Benjamin Davies and Isabella.

I can't see Mary's baptism on there, but there are these two, though the church isn't named:

David John Davies christened 1 Sep 1903 Lancashire, parents Benjamin Davies and Isabella
William Benjamin Davies christened 3 Aug 1905 Lancashire, parents Benjamin Davies and Isabella.

There are too many David John Davies births to know which is the right one, but not so many William Benjamins - the only one whose birth was registered in Lancashire around that time is in West Derby district, Apr - Jun 1905. (Although of course we don't know for sure that the christening is of a baby born in Lancashire.)

There is a David John Davies death in West Derby Jul-Sep 1905 age 2. Can't see a death for William Benjamin Davies between 1905 and 1911. I can't see William Benjamin Davies on the 1911 census but if he is just listed as William Davies there are too many to choose from.

Does it say on the 1911 census 3 children, 3 living, or does it say 4 children, 3 living and 1 dead? I'm not sure whether David and William are red herrings or not!

[Merry]

Nothing's ever straightforward, is it? lol I had no idea there would be such late baptisms available.

In 1911 there's a child trancribed as WILLIAM BENJAMIS DAVIES (that spelling!) born in Lancashire and living/staying in St Asaph reg district in Denbighshire, which covers Prestatyn in Flintshire as well and I've checked and they are living in Prestatyn. He is in a household with people called Ellis (William 66, Ann 69 and William 25). The bad news is that he is listed as grandson, so if he is the right person, then possibly Mrs Ellis was previously Mrs Davies or Mrs Shepherd. Or maybe I have found the child fron the baptism Kate found, but that Benjamin and Isabella are not yours!!


Alison, what did you think of the possible 1901 census entry for Isabella?

[Merry]

This 1891 page:

RG12; Piece: 4626; Folio 74; Page 10

has William Ellis single and same page, further down, Mrs Ann Davies, widow wih her son Benjamin. In 1901 we have Mr and Mrs William Ellis and son, William Ellis aged 15, who may have been William Davies aged 5 on the previous census. The trouble is, I can't see a marriage between Ann Davies and William Ellis as yet!

[Merry]

Oh, here it is - the page number for William is transcribed incorrectly so I didn't get a match straight away!

Marriages Dec 1895
Ellis William St. Asaph 11b 60[60]


Marriages Dec 1895
Davies Ann St. Asaph 11b 606


I have checked William's page number and it is 606.

So, rather amazingly we seem to have found Benjamin and Isabella's missing child! I wouldn't have placed a bet on that! lol

[kiterunner]

This looks like the Ellises in 1901:

Castle View Heights, Prestatyn:
William Ellis Head M 56 Labourer (General) Flintshire Prestatyn
Ann Ellis Wife M 58 do do
William Ellis Son S 15 Grocer's Assistant Do Do

Then going back to 1891 (excuse spellings of place names!):
Liverpool Cottage, Meliden, Prestatyn
William Brookes Head M 49 Farmer Flint Dyserth
Elizabeth Do Wife M 40 Do Gwsemygor
Edward Ellis Father Widr 81 Ex-farmer Do Llanara
William L Brookes Son 6 Scholar Do Prestatyn
Thomas Do Son 5 Do Do
William Ellis Brother S 47 Carter Do Gwsenysyn

And on the same page, Rose Cottage
Ann Davies Head Wid 47 Flint Prestatyn
Thomas Do Son S 20 Farm labourer Do Do
Benjamin Do Son S 16 Do Do Do Do
John Davies Son 11 Scholar Do Do
William Do Son 5 Do Do Do

(Snap, Merry! That took me ages to type!)

[Phoenix]

My oh my, I love it when the two of you pull out all the stops!

Well done for finding the missing boy!

[Merry]

(Snap, Merry! That took me ages to type!)

Well done you for typing it all out! I was laying down in bed with the laptop doing the searching and my typing skills are poor at the best of times, so I couldn't face it! lol

[alisondaviesbell]

OH WOW!
I can't believe you found him!.....and it looks like you have answered the question to the d'ced child too!
Benjamins father from what i have found was called David, and i understand it was common practie to call the eldest boy after the paternal grandfather.
You are truly amazing!

the Davies/Ellis family you found fits with every thing i have found,
i have the same Davies family in 1891 living in Rose cottage,
i have found the same family in every census back to 1841 which also includes finding Ann Davies family the Jones, her father was living with her in the 1881 and 1871 census so i was able to track them too.

i lost the Davies' on the 1901 census and i just assumed that Ann had died and that most of the children had grown up and left home and that william was maybe living with one of them, etc...

Speaking to my dad last night he didn't know if Isabella had ever lived in Prestatyn, but he remembers his dad telling him that Isabella was born in Scotland, so maybe it was her...... although why she would say she was born in Scotland remains a mystery!!

Thanks so much with your help!