View Full Version : Sunday morning challenge? Dreaded Lavenders!
BK6 updated from this thread
I'm trying to see if these people are part of my tree, but I'm struggling because the kitchen is calling and I've wasted too much time already!
This is what I've found so far:
Levi Benjamin Lavender (a sadler) was bap in Elstree Herts in 1832 the son of James and Mary Lavender (British Isles Vital Records Index).
The combination of him having a Herts connection and being called Levi make me want to force him into my tree! However, according to the 1851 census he was born in Cripplegate, Middlesex
According to the 1851 census his father, James (clerk, messenger), was b in Barking Essex abt 1802, so not an obvious Herts connection there. His mother, Mary, was not at home.
The 1841 census (Levi spelled Leve) shows me Mary was b in Middlesex.
I can't find the family in 1861 (haven't tried! lol) or 1871, but I think this may be James in 1881 as he's the right age and occupation but slightly different pob:
5 Lizard St, St Luke's Middlesex
William LEAVER Head W 65 Coach Maker b St Botolph
Elizabeth A. LEAVER Daur U 30 Housekeeper b St Lukes
James LAVENDER Boarder W 78 Messenger Stratford, Essex <<<<<<<<<
Levi Benjamin Lavender married Elizabeth Peachey nee Peploe in 1864 (LMA records), but I've not found them together yet.
There's a bankruptcy notice for Levi in one of the Gale papers where he is listed as Benjamin Levi which may be a mistake, or may be that he called himself Benjamin rather than Levi (none of which has helped!)
So, I need to find them on more censuses to try and work out exactly where James was b, circa 1802 (his bap would be good too!! lol), where Mary was b and what happened to Levi and Elizabeth after 1864. I've not had time to get Elizabeth's place of birth etc. Her father was Edward Peploe who was something to do with coachbuilding - didn't write that down!
And finally................
One of the witnesses to the 1864 marriage was a Lavinia McClary, which is way to close to McCrery (one of my other nightmare lines) for comfort. Who is she? I can't find anything to support her existence!
Thanks for reading........*reaches for potato peeler*......
ElizabethHerts
02-05-10, 09:47
A bit off topic, Merry, but there are 3 Levi Lavenders buried in Hertfordshire, all at Ridge (south of the county).
2 Dec 1807 aged 48 St Margaret Ridge
21 Nov 1808 No age St Margaret Ridge
13 Jun 1824 aged 18 St Margaret Ridge
Elizabeth, The 1807 and 1808 ones are father and son. The son married Leah Maynard, my rellie. The father then re-wrote his will so that Leah got his son's inheritence. Son doesn't seem to have made a will.
I don't know who the other one is, off the top of my head, but I expect he is on my tree (don't have time to look now!).
So far, I am only a blood relative of Leah Lavender and her children etc with Levi , but Phoenix thinks there may be another connection further back, which is why I'm looking into any likely Lavender lines.
*carrots next....*
Sue from Southend
02-05-10, 11:08
I think this is Levi and Elizabeth in 1871 (named as Benjamin)
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&=%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c% 2c%2c%2c&gsfn=benjamin&gsln=lavender&gsby=1832&gsb2co=3251%2cEngland&gsb2pl=5268%2cHertfordshire&gsdy=&gsd2co=1%2cAll+Countries&gsd2pl=1%2c+&sbo=1&sbor=&ufr=0&wp=4%3b_80000002%3b_80000003&srchb=r&prox=1&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-b&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=27626411&recoff=1+2&db=uki1871&indiv=1
There's a baptism for Elizabeth Peploe here
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=1&f3=elizabeth&f4=peploe&=&f16=&f17=&rg_f18__date=1822&rs_f18__date=5&f23=&f19=&f9=&f13=&f24=&gskw=&db=lmabirths&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=34&fh=0&h=3734222&recoff=1+3+21+23+35
Naming her as Elizabeth Susannah.
Elizabeth Susannah Peploe is a witness to a marriage of Sarah Elizabeth Peploe and Samuel McClary in 1835
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=1&f8=elizabeth&f10=peploe&rs_81004011__date=0&rs_f51__date=0&f19=peachey&prox=1&db=lmamarriages&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=34&fh=6&h=6403366&recoff=2+3
but I can't find any children of that marriage as yet (not in London anyway) that might be Lavinia
Sue from Southend
02-05-10, 11:20
There is a death for a Benjamin Lavender b1831, mar qtr 1873 in Bethnal Green.
And Elizabeth Susannah Lavender is a Widow in Heston Middx in 1881.
Mary from Italy
02-05-10, 12:09
A Benjamin Lavender, saddler and harness maker, of 55, Great Chart-street, East-road, Hoxton, Middx was involved in a bankruptcy case in 1867, although he wasn't the debtor; looks as though he was one of the trustees:
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/23293/pages/4644
Benjamin Levi Lavender, saddler and harness manufacturer, of 8, Cross-street, Finsbury, Middx was adjudicated bankrupt in 1870:
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/23598/pages/1771
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/23604/pages/2087
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/24353/pages/4530
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/24395/pages/7049
Mary from Italy
02-05-10, 12:30
Possibly interesting marriage here (although they're too young to be Levi Benjamin's parents if James gives the right age on the censuses):
James Lavender, bachelor and Mary Laurance, widow, both OTP, married 1/9/1814 at St Katherine by the Tower.
Witnesses: Geo Griffith and Ann Maynard.
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1623&iid=31281_A101735-00005&fn=James&ln=Lavender&st=d&ssrc=&pid=359814
Mary from Italy
02-05-10, 12:53
Ooh! Guess where Mary Lavender (aged 52, born Middx) is in 1851?
Visiting a family called Clayton in Ridge, Hertfordshire!
I'm assuming this is James's wife, although I'm a bit dubious about her occupation, "formerly farmer".
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8860&iid=BRKHO107_1701_1701-0132&fn=Mary&ln=Lavender&st=d&ssrc=&pid=3835894
Oooh, thank you so much, Mary and Sue!
That connection between the Peploes and McClarys suggests the McClarys may not be McCrerys at all, so that's something! lol
I remember trying to sort out a connection to that Benjamin Clayton before, but I can't remember why!! *frets* I will have to look into that again, as whatever it was may be more significant now. it does certainly suggest that James Lavender did have a connection to 'my' Lavenders.
So, Levi Benjamin was yet another of this clan to die childless, but the look of it. I have never come across a tree in this era with so few children. Very odd.
I've seen that 1814 marriage between James Lavender and the widow, Mary Laurance before. I am just waiting to fit it into my tree! I have quite a few Ann Maynards who could be the witness though............
Thank you both again for your help.
Ooh! Guess where Mary Lavender (aged 52, born Middx) is in 1851?
Visiting a family called Clayton in Ridge, Hertfordshire!
I'm assuming this is James's wife, although I'm a bit dubious about her occupation, "formerly farmer".
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8860&iid=BRKHO107_1701_1701-0132&fn=Mary&ln=Lavender&st=d&ssrc=&pid=3835894
I've been looking at this Clayton family.
Benjamin Clayton, (who had Mary Lavender as a visitor in 1851) was married to Mary Elizabeth Hanger in 1841 at St Marylebone. The witnesses were Elizabeth Lavender and Thomas Matthew Lavender.
Thought I'd try and trace Thomas Matthew Lavender first (he's not on my tree as yet!) as that sounded fairly easy :rolleyes::rolleyes: !
Died 1870 Hackney aged 53, so b abt 1817.
Married Mary Ann Stone in 1845 at St Margaret Pattens, City. Father James Lavender, farmer. Groom's occ something cutter (can't read it) Witnesses, bride's father and someone I can't read, but not a Lavender!
Can't pick them out easily in 1851 or 1861, but there's a Mary A Lavender aged 47 B Surrey, widow, living in Hackney in 1871 so that may be her. No children with her - yet ANOTHER line drying up?
Aaagh, still can't see them before this. Can you?
ElizabethHerts
04-05-10, 10:06
Thomas Lavender 1851
LAVENDER, Thomas Head Married M 33 1818 Slop Cutter Hertfordshire
LAVENDER, Mary Ann Wife Married F 28 1823 St George the Martyr Surrey
RG number: HO107 Piece: 1524 Folio: 395 Page: 24
5, Liverpool Buildings, Saint Botolph Bishopsgate, London County:
Middlesex
Thank you Elizabeth.
Slop cutter? What's that? That's what the marriage entry looked like. Sounds disgusting! lol
Nice of him to say whereabouts in Herts!!
ElizabethHerts
04-05-10, 10:13
His parents were James and Anne.
His baptism is on the IGI at RIDGE! 9th July 1817
I have them on the 1841 census minus James, but there is an Elizabeth there!
LAVINDER, Elizabeth F 30 1811 Middlesex
LAVINDER, Ann F 60 1781 Middlesex
LAVINDER, John M 25 1816 Middlesex
LAVINDER, Thomas M 20 1821 Middlesex
DOUGLAS, Mary F 75 1766 Middlesex
RG number: HO107 Piece: 666 Book/Folio: 7/25 Page:43
Lizard Street, St Luke, City Road, East, Finsbury Middlesex
OMG, C of E??!!! lololol
I forgot to look on the IGI :o
ElizabethHerts
04-05-10, 10:16
wrong place - moved!
Oh cripes.....James and Ann? I have a James b 1796 but his wife was Mary Ann and he moved from Herts to London and was a coal meter with two daughters as far as I know, so this farmer must be a different one.
*reaches for brandy*
ElizabethHerts
04-05-10, 10:23
Merry, it's at this stage where I usually start a new tree on PAF just to sort out the relationships!
And it's where I reach for the brandy, not being so organised as you!
I see there's this bap for a child of a james and Ann too.....
LEVY BENJN LAVENDER
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: 04 APR 1806
Christening: 30 APR 1806 Saint Giles Cripplegate, London, London, England
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: JAMES LAVENDER
Mother: ANN
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages: Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.
That's just one I noticed for obvious reasons....!
That John 1816 on the 1841 with Ann and Thomas and Elizabeth etc could be this one:
JOHN LAVENDER
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 25 MAR 1814 St Giles Cripplegate, London, London, England
Death:
Burial:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: JAMES LAVENDER Family
Mother: ANN
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages: Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.
ElizabethHerts
04-05-10, 10:33
Oh cripes.....James and Ann? I have a James b 1796 but his wife was Mary Ann and he moved from Herts to London and was a coal meter with two daughters as far as I know, so this farmer must be a different one.
*reaches for brandy*
A coal meter??
1851
DREW, William Head Married M 24 1827 Coal Meter Worplesdon Surrey
DREW, Sarah Wife Married F 24 1827 Coal Meter's Wife Farrington Gurney
Somersetshire
LAVENDER, John Head Married M 33 1818 Coal Meter Scotland
LAVENDER, Jane Wife Married F 35 1816 Deptford Kent
LAVENDER, John Son Unmarried M 12 1839 Woolwich Kent
LAVENDER, Robt Son Unmarried M 3 1848 Woolwich Kent
LAVENDER, George Son Unmarried M 0 (11 MOS) 1851 Stepney
RG number: HO107 Piece: 1551 Folio: 300 Page: 20
52, Totten Street, Stepney County:
Middlesex
I know he was born in Scotland but there are no more baptisms for James and Anne at Ridge ....
ElizabethHerts
04-05-10, 10:34
OK, I have the wrong John I think. It was the Coal Meter that made me hopeful!
ElizabethHerts
04-05-10, 10:41
There is a death for an Ann Lavender in the St Lukes district of London
Jun 1846 St Lukes 2 179
Re the coal meter.....
Don't confuse me! My James (54) and Mary Ann (50) are in St George in the East in 1851. He is 34 and I would very much like you to tell me his place of birth as it says Something Farm in Herts!
Going back to Thomas Matthew Lavender's family.......
I have looked up the original bap for that Levi Benjamin Lavender at St Giles Cripplegate in 1806, parents James and Ann like Thos Mat, and his father is recorded as a farmer!
Here's the page for my coal meter...(I mis-read their ages, sorry)
HO107; Piece: 1548; Folio: 216; Page: 25
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8860&iid=MDXHO107_1548_1548-0228&fn=James&ln=Lavender&st=r&ssrc=&pid=440009
ElizabethHerts
04-05-10, 10:45
Aha! There is a burial for Ann Lavender
25 April 1846
Bunhill Fields
Ann Lavender
aged 65
so born c. 1781
We are saying this is the Ann who was in Ridge aged 60 in 1841?
I wonder if James is in Bunhill fields too? He probably died before 1841. On the marriage cert for Thomas Matthew L both fathers appeared to be alive, but the bride's father had been dead seven years, so quite reasonable that James was dec'd too.
ElizabethHerts
04-05-10, 10:52
Here's the page for my coal meter...(I mis-read their ages, sorry)
HO107; Piece: 1548; Folio: 216; Page: 25
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8860&iid=MDXHO107_1548_1548-0228&fn=James&ln=Lavender&st=r&ssrc=&pid=440009
FMP has transcribed it as "Cuiwrers Farm"
A bit off topic, Merry, but there are 3 Levi Lavenders buried in Hertfordshire, all at Ridge (south of the county).
2 Dec 1807 aged 48 St Margaret Ridge
21 Nov 1808 No age St Margaret Ridge
13 Jun 1824 aged 18 St Margaret Ridge
I wonder if this is Levi Benjamin bap at St Giles Cripplegate in 1806 (born 4th April 1806), son of James (farmer) and Ann?
ElizabethHerts
04-05-10, 10:57
The Ann in Bunhill fields is the Ann on the 1841 census at St Lukes with Elizabeth and Thomas and John.
I haven't been able to find James in Bunhill Fields, unfortunately.
ElizabethHerts
04-05-10, 11:00
That John 1816 on the 1841 with Ann and Thomas and Elizabeth etc could be this one:
JOHN LAVENDER
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 25 MAR 1814 St Giles Cripplegate, London, London, England
Death:
Burial:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: JAMES LAVENDER Family
Mother: ANN
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages: Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.
There is a burial for a John Lavender in Bunhill Fields.
23 Oct 1843 aged 29
FMP has transcribed it as "Cuiwrers Farm"
lol that's worse than Ancestry!
I think I know who the farmer James Lavender was. My Leah Maynard married Levi Lavender who died young in 1807. His father, also Levi, died in 1808 and names his eldest son as James Lavender in his will. James got all the land, so it would make sense for him to be a farmer. James must have been born before 1787 as he was 'of age' when his father wrote his will.
There is a burial for a John Lavender in Bunhill Fields.
23 Oct 1843 aged 29
Explaining why I couldn't find him in 1851!
James must have been born before 1787 as he was 'of age' when his father wrote his will.
Actually, he may have been significantly older than that. The son, Levi, who was already dec'd was b about 1759. The will doesn't say James is the eldest though - that was me making an assumption! It could well be that Levi had been older and that was why a new will was needed.
ElizabethHerts
04-05-10, 11:24
There was a brother George to the same parents.
Baptised 22 SEP 1811 Ridge, Hertfordshire
(I had already posted this earlier but managed to delete it!!)
George Lavender buried 5 Sep 1830
St Margaret Ridge
aged 19
Back to the slop cutter.... presumably some kind of tailor? Slops were (amongst other things) clothes.
I did see that before you deleted it - thanks :).
A lot of their children died young then? I need to check this, but I have so far:
James 1801-1801
James 1804 -
Levi Benjamin 1806-1824
George 1811-1830
John 1814-1843
Thomas Matthew 1817-1870
Am I right in thinking we have no death for James b 1804? How tempting is it to imagine Ann Lavender delivering a child whilst on a visit to Barking Essex, thereby making James the messenger (father of Levi) the missing person?!!!
Back to the slop cutter.... presumably some kind of tailor? Slops were (amongst other things) clothes.
That sounds very likely - thank you. I couldn't get away from thinking about stuff like pigs swill! lol
His parents were James and Anne.
His baptism is on the IGI at RIDGE! 9th July 1817
I have them on the 1841 census minus James, but there is an Elizabeth there!
LAVINDER, Elizabeth F 30 1811 Middlesex
LAVINDER, Ann F 60 1781 Middlesex
LAVINDER, John M 25 1816 Middlesex
LAVINDER, Thomas M 20 1821 Middlesex
DOUGLAS, Mary F 75 1766 Middlesex
RG number: HO107 Piece: 666 Book/Folio: 7/25 Page:43
Lizard Street, St Luke, City Road, East, Finsbury Middlesex
It's taken me all this time to realise this census list isn't from Herts, but from Middlesex!! lol (why are they all saying Yes to county????!!!)
OMG I've seen Lizard Street on something already in the last few days. Don't know what though.....;(;(;(;(
I think this burial:
2nd Dec 1821 James Lavender aged 57, Ridge Herts (NBI)
is for Ann's husband and the father of the various children bap at Ridge and in London between 1801 and 1817, brother-in-law to my Leah nee Maynard and son of Levi Lavender senr.
If he was b abt 1764 that makes him about 5 years younger than his brother Levi (Leah's husband).
Apologies if Elizabeth has already posted this and I've not noticed! :o
ElizabethHerts
04-05-10, 12:39
I can't find the family in 1861 (haven't tried! lol) or 1871, but I think this may be James in 1881 as he's the right age and occupation but slightly different pob:
5 Lizard St, St Luke's Middlesex
William LEAVER Head W 65 Coach Maker b St Botolph
Elizabeth A. LEAVER Daur U 30 Housekeeper b St Lukes
James LAVENDER Boarder W 78 Messenger Stratford, Essex <<<<<<<<<
.
Here you are, Merry
OMG I've seen Lizard Street on something already in the last few days. Don't know what though.....;(;(;(;(
Gosh, that's a turn up for the books! Here's my sighting of Lizard Street,
5 Lizard St, St Luke's Middlesex
William LEAVER Head W 65 Coach Maker b St Botolph
Elizabeth A. LEAVER Daur U 30 Housekeeper b St Lukes
James LAVENDER Boarder W 78 Messenger Stratford, Essex <<<<<<<<<
from the first post on this thread. It's where James Lavender, messenger b abt 1802 in Barking, was living in 1881 - a whole 40 years after these other Lavenders were living there. Coincidence? He was only a boarder. *frets*
I don't think James was 'just' a boarder!
I can see another relationship coming here!
James Lavender b 1802ish Barking.
1881 we have James boarding with William Leaver who is a widower. Go back to 1851 and there we have William Leaver with his daughter, but his wife is there too. Her name is Elizabeth b 1811 and they are in Lizard St then too!....
William Leaver m Elizabeth in Sept 1841 at St Botolph Bishopsgate
Her maiden name ???? Lavender! pmsl!!
Father's name? James
Father's occ? farmer
Witness Thomas Matthew Lavender
So.......James the messenger surely IS the missing person from the children of James and Ann and they had a daughter, Elizabeth, who I knew nothing about.
The only worrying thing now is that George bap 1811 and Elizabeth b about the same time don't both seem to have a baptism, so will have to go back and look at that.
Bother. If I'd read ALL of Levi Lavender's will PROPERLY I would have seen this, refering to his son James - the father of the people I've been looking at:
"my son James Lavender of the parish of Barking in Essex". That was written in 1808, so quite reasonable that at least two (probably more) of James' children were born there. *tuts*
ElizabethHerts
04-05-10, 13:14
You got there in the end, Merry!!
(Now I shall return to my Italian revision for Thursday's exam!)
Ooops! lol Sorry to have distracted you! Good Luck :)
ElizabethHerts
04-05-10, 13:27
Ooops! lol Sorry to have distracted you! Good Luck :)
I needed distracting - I have had enough for the time being!! :d
Sue from Southend
04-05-10, 17:39
Just to poke my nose in again - the Barking Baptisms are viewable on SEAX......
Just to poke my nose in again - the Barking Baptisms are viewable on SEAX......
Blimey, I've never had to look for anyone from Essex before. Didn't understand the search process one bit! I think as I have baps for all the children but one I am happy for it to stay that way!!! lol
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