1841 puzzle ~ imagination required please

[Rachel]

On the 17th April 1841, TC marries MJ (married by Banns).

TC is a Labourer and they are from the same town but marry in a Church (C of E) a few miles away.

The 1841 census was taken on the 7th June (that's after 17th April) BUT both parties are in their respective parents' households that night and MJ is listed under her maiden name.

A secret marriage ? a tax dodge ? a mistake ? any ideas ?


Oh yes, Easter Sunday was on the 11th April that year

[kiterunner]

I've got one like that which seems to have been a secret marriage, and one where the groom is listed in two places - one unmarried with his parents and one married with his wife, but I think that one was a mistake because he and his wife were living very near his parents so they couldn't have kept it a secret. So could be either really! Or could it be they had the marriage annulled (officially or unofficially)?

[Margaret in Burton]

Are they together in 1851?

[Merry]

How old were they?

[Rachel]

Thanks KR and Marg

They are together in 1851 and have 4 children
The eldest is born in 1843

Hello Merry ~ you just snuck in

TC ~ born c 1818
MJ born c 1815

The marriage cert says 'both of full age'

[Phoenix]

Who are the witnesses? Parents, or strangers?

Bride's family might have felt she was too immature, though hardly too young, but there is precious little the family could do after the event.

[Olde Crone]

Maybe just a mistake, like one of mine, listed in her maiden name along with her husband and all their children.

My explanation for this puzzle was that although she was long married, she and her husband and their family actually lived at what was her childhood home and I reckon the enumerator thought "Ah, Lawtons' house" and put that down by mistake, instead of her married name.

OC

[Rachel]

Who are the witnesses? Parents, or strangers?



Strangers, but will have to investigate them in case there's a connection somewhere

Maybe just a mistake, like one of mine, listed in her maiden name along with her husband and all their children.

My explanation for this puzzle was that although she was long married, she and her husband and their family actually lived at what was her childhood home and I reckon the enumerator thought "Ah, Lawtons' house" and put that down by mistake, instead of her married name.

OC

Maybe they were all confused by what was required on the census :confused:
Neither the bride, groom nor witnesses could sign their names

[maggie_4_7]

I don't suppose they are somewhere else in 1841 listed together!

[Rachel]

I don't suppose they are somewhere else in 1841 listed together!

I did try that maggie but, sadly, there's no sign of them elsewhere :(

[maggie_4_7]

Perhaps they didn't have anywhere to live and either of the parents wouldn't have the other there.

[Margaret in Burton]

Perhaps they didn't have anywhere to live and either of the parents wouldn't have the other there.

When I was 3 and sister was 1 Dad lost his job as a farm labourer. There was a tied house with the job so they had to leave. My mum's mother hated my dad and would never have had him to stay there. Dad's parents were already putting up Dad's sister and her hubby so didn't have room for Mum, me and sis as well. Dad went back to his old room.

I don't know how long this went on for, not too long I don't think as we got a council house.

Could be a similar situation?

[Rachel]

So MJ had to stay with her parents and was forbidden to use her married surname ?

"Not while you're living under my roof my girl !"

[maggie_4_7]

I think there was some acrimony there which is why they married somewhere else and probably never told their parents. I expect they never told their families until much later on and remained living with their parents for a while.

But I suppose we'll never know.

[Rachel]

Thanks all :)

The deaths of their parents have not thrown any light on it. I was hoping that at least one parent died around the time of the marriage and then as soon as he/she was out of the way, the young couple could reveal all.

Naaaa ~ their first child was born in 1843 and the parents' deaths are after that.

Would they have needed to be living in the Parish where they were married for any length of time ?

[kiterunner]

One of them would have had to be living there for a few weeks, that's all.