Could this be Harriot ?

[Gert in Oz]

I`m trying to figure out if this is my ggreat aunt, your opinion would be appreciated.

Harriot Gough born about 1833 Leicester St Margaret

Baptised as Harriot 7 June 1843 at the same time as a younger brother William.

1841 image says Harrt age 8, with parents John and Mary and siblings Mary, Eliza and John.

1851 There is a Harriott Gough age 18 (visitor) with the now married Mary Davenport nee Gough (both parents have died and younger children put in the workhouse), but says she is from All Saints Northamtonshire

1852 a Harriet Gough marries James Bull in Leicester, James was born Leicester

No sign of them til 1881, Harriet still from Northhamtonshire and no children

1891 As Harriett and James have a grandaughter age 13 with them.

Theres a James Bull death in 1899 and Harriett in 1897 Both Leicester.



Could this Harriett/Harriet be Harriot, cannot find a Harriet/Harriot Gough on the 1841 census for Northamtonshire

Or am i clutching at straws

[kiterunner]

How do you know that your Harriot was born in Leicester St Margaret, Sylvia?

[Margaret in Burton]

I always find that Harriet's and it's variants are a nightmare to find. I always search for Harri*.

[Margaret in Burton]

Does the 1841 say if she was born in the county or not?

Ah, found it. Yes, born Leicestershire.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8978&iid=LEIHO107_602_604-0308&fn=Harrt&ln=Gough&st=d&ssrc=&pid=6487476

[Gert in Oz]

Now thats a thought, 1841 census says she was born in county, but she wasn`t baptised the same year she was born, like the other children, even my great grandfather born 1839 was baptised in 1839


1843.
Entry No’. 1125. 7th. June.
William Son of John & Mary GOUGH.
Metcalfe Street.
Tailor.
Entry No’. 1126.7th. June.
Harriot. Daughter of John & Mary GOUGH.
Metcalfe Street.
Tailor.
D.J.Didmay. Curate

As you can see Harriot was the second of the 2 children on the register, wonder if she was adopted

[Gert in Oz]

Hi margaret, i have been trying Harr*

Thank you both for looking

[kiterunner]

The father's occupation on the 1841 census is Hawker, so it is quite likely they were travelling around a lot and happened to be in Northants when Harriot was born, but they didn't mention that she was born out of county when the census form was filled in. I've seen lots of hawker families where the children were born all over the place and their birthplaces are inconsistent from one census to the next.

[Margaret in Burton]

I can't find a marriage for George Davenport and Mary. Can anyone?

[Margaret in Burton]

The father's occupation on the 1841 census is Hawker, so it is quite likely they were travelling around a lot and happened to be in Northants when Harriot was born, but they didn't mention that she was born out of county when the census form was filled in. I've seen lots of hawker families where the children were born all over the place and their birthplaces are inconsistent from one census to the next.

Am I looking at the wrong one? It reads Tailor to me.

[Gert in Oz]

Kite, i think you have the wrong census John is a Tailor

Class: HO107; Piece 604; Book: 9; Hope thats right

Marg, George Devonport 1848 3rd Q (I have cert) another name spelt different ways.

[kiterunner]

Oh right, sorry. Hmmm...

[kiterunner]

I suppose the obvious way to find out would be to get the Harriet Gough / James Bull marriage cert and see what it says for Harriet's father.

[Gert in Oz]

I think you could be right Kite, thats 2 on the list, got to start saving again, blew it all before the price went up. LOL

Thank you both for your help.

[Phoenix]

If the younger children are in the workhouse in 1851, it would definitely be worth trying to find out what records survive for the workhouse. There may be nothing, but there could be a settlement examination, saying where the dad came from.

I would guess, like Kite said, the family moved about a bit before settling in Leicester.

[Gert in Oz]

All the children that i know of were baptised at St Margarets Leicester, Mary 1825, Frederick 1828-Died 1828, Eliza 1829, Harriot 1843 but born abt 1833, John 1839, William 1843, Thomas 1845 on the day his mother was buried.

Thomas was born 6 months after his father died, 1 month before his mother died and died in the workhouse 1846 (Have birth and death certs)

William was in the workhouse in 1851 (have birth cert)

John was an apprentice tailor age 12 in 1851, but would hsve been 6 when mum died, so think he could have been in the workhouse. (have all BMD certs)

I have no idea where dad John came from, born about 1802 (from death cert) another one of those brick walls, there is however a 6 year gap between Harriot and John jnr, which could mean they went to Northampton and more children.

John snr and Mary Hearn married at St Margarets.

[Merry]

Working back from the grandaughter, Alice E Cox, aged 13 in 1891......

1881 parents Charles George Cox aged 32 b Rotherhithe and Elizabeth A Cox 28 b Leicester

Marriage of parents:

Marriages Dec 1874
BULL Elizabeth Ann G Leicester 7a 496 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Cox Charles George Leicester 7a 496 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Moss William Leicester 7a 496
Wholton Elizabeth Ann Leicester 7a 496

Alice's mum's birth (probably, as her parents marriage is after this!)

Births Jun 1852
Bull Elizabeth Ann Leicester 7a 207


1861 census:

18 Lower Grove St, Leicester St Margaret

James Bull head m 30 glove hand (worsted) b Leicester
Harriett Bull wife m 28 Cotton Winder b Northampton
Elizabeth Ann Bull 8 dau b Leicester
John Cave boarder unm 29 FWK b Leicester

[Merry]

1871 they are at the same address in Leicester - just James, Harriett and Elizabeth. No boarder. This time Harriett specifies her place of birth as Northampton, Northamptonshire.

[Merry]

Oooh, it looks like James and Harriett admitted to not being married when Elizabeth Ann was born, as there are two index entries for her birth cert:

Births Jun 1852
Bull Elizabeth Ann Leicester 7a 207
Gough Elizabeth Ann Leicester 7a 207

I suddenly thought I should check as her marriage entry shows the telltale initial G after her forenames!

[Gert in Oz]

Ooo, thank you Merry, that 1861 census is interesting as Harriet`s sister Mary marries a John Cave in 1864, her first husband died in 1859, though in 1871 John Cave b. abt 1832 is a fishmonger, wonder if its the same man.

[Gert in Oz]

Marriage cert arrived today, it says Harriet Gough`s father was John Gough (deceased) occupation Tailor which is right. They married at the Register Office

James Bull is of full age and Harriet is a minor age 19, both witnesses are from the Bull family, could an older sister give permission for a minor to be married ?

[kiterunner]

If one or both of her parents were still alive then it should be them that gave consent, but the person who gave consent doesn't have to be a witness if that's what you're wondering about.

[Gert in Oz]

Both parents were dead, but Harriet had 2 older sisters and 2 younger brothers, John 13 and William 9

[Merry]

In theory, if you were under age, wanted to marry and your parents were dead you were supposed to present yourself at the local court with your 'intended' where a judge would decree whether you were suitable marriage material. I expect in reality people either lied about their age (not in this case though!) or provided a 'parent' to give consent. This would only work if the family was not known to the vicar, so a no-no in small country parishes, but possible in towns and cities, I would think.

[Gert in Oz]

Thank you Kate and Merry, have just thought there was an uncle from Harriets mums side living around there somewhere, so maybe he gave permission.