I've got myself in a right muddle!

[Terri]

But I can't let it go! :(

1891 Kingston upon Thames
Edward J. (James) Matthews born 1856 Devizes, Wiltshire
Annie Matthews born 1860 Portsmouth
James Matthews born 1882 Portsmouth
Cecilia Matthews born 1884 Portsmouth (who morphs into Harriet C. Matthews in 1901)
Annie K. Matthews born 1888 Kingston

I think that Annie's maiden name was actually Eliza Annie Harris, (known as Annie to her family) born 1860 Portsea. (A bit circumstantial, but I am/was very optimistic!) I thought it would a simple thing to find the marriage ... or not, as the case may be.

I can't find a marriage for Edward James Matthews to anyone who fits.
I can't find him, or Eliza Annie Harris, together or apart in 1881, when they may, or may not have been married.
I can't find births for either James Matthews nor Harriet/Cecilia Matthews, BUT there are births for a Harriet Cecilia Brooksbank in 1884 Portsea, and also a James Alfred Brooksbank in 1881 Portsea. (Circumstantial again, but a big coincidence otherwise! There are no other Harriet Cecilias around!)

So I figure that maybe Annie's maiden name was either Brooksbank, or, she was married to a Brooksbank, before she married Edward Matthews. There is no Annie Brooksbank born in Portsmouth around that time, (almost all Brooksbanks are either Yorkshire or Nottinghamshire based), so presumably Portsmouth Annie was previously married to a Brooksbank.
But I can't find a marriage for that either!!!
(And there doesn't appear to be a single Brooksbank in Hampshire in 1881).

Now I don't know what to think and I can't see for looking.
It doesn't help that I don't know where Eliza Annie was in 1881. Sometime between 1871 and 81 her family moved from Portsmouth to Surrey and I don't know if she went with them or stayed in Portsmouth.

Anyone got any good ideas?? Please!!!:confused:

[Phoenix]

Is she this Eliza Ann? :

ELIZA ANN HARRIS Pedigree
Female


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 24 JUN 1860 Saint Thomas, Portsmouth, Hampshire, England

Death:
Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: JAMES HARRIS Family
Mother: ADELAIDE AMELIA

[Terri]

That's my girl!

[Phoenix]

At least if she's baptised St Thomas, she probably says Portsmouth as pob (& not Kingston, Landport, Southsea etc!)

[Terri]

In 1891 and 1901, the Annie-that-I-desperately-want-to-be-Eliza-Annie says Portsmouth, when she is with her parents in 61 and 71, it says Portsea. Much the same place I suppose.

[Merry]

You would think this person:

Marriages Dec 1880
Brooksbank Mark Meller Portsea 2b 857


marrying in the same place shortly before the first birth would be significant, but the brides are

Marriages Dec 1880

Brooksbank Mark Meller Portsea 2b 857
Clarey Lubannah Portsea 2b 857
Clarey Luhannah Portsea 2b 857
Ford Maria Annie Portsea 2b 857
Hopkins George Portsea 2b 857

Mark was, of course, never born and never died (at first glance, anyway!!)

[Phoenix]

Mark appears to be a gunner (unmarried!) in 1881: RG11 piece 1162 folio 154 page 38

[Terri]

I did look at him ........... (and assuming Maria Annie Ford is THIS/MY Annie) the nearest match is a Maria Ann Ford born 1864 Portsea - not impossible I suppose, but means she married at 16 and is 4 years younger than this Annie on census.

Given that this Annie was born in Portsmouth and the 2 eldest children were born there, it's the most likely place for a marriage ..... probably

[Phoenix]

Aah, her parents were James & Harriet FORD

[Terri]

Mark appears to be a gunner (unmarried!) in 1881: RG11 piece 1162 folio 154 page 38

Oooh well done Pheonix!

[Merry]

Well, the Brooksbanks and the Matthews are def the same people as when James Alfred got married in 1909 (LMA records) the cert was written out as Brooksbanks (with an extra S!) and father's name Mark Meller B dec'd, but the groom signed his name Matthews and then crossed it through and signed Brooksbanks!!

So, the problem is who is their mother? Miss Ford? You don't want that, do you? And that Lubannah does't exist apart from getting married!

[Merry]

Oh, you do want Miss Ford? What happened to Miss Harris??? lol

[Merry]

You have to allow that Maria A Ford may have started out as plain Mary Ann!! lol

[Terri]

No, no, I don't want Miss Ford, I want Miss Harris!!!:d

Oh dear, I'd better tell you the rest ...............!!!!!

The whereabouts of Eliza Ann Harris after 1871 has eluded me for years! Then I came across her brother's army records that names her as one of his next of kin, just as "Annie, Middlesex, Surrey". That was dated 1893.

The SAME brother, in 1901, has a visitor - a 4 year old girl called Dorothy Matthews, born Kingston upon Thames. In trying to trace her family, I found this ANNIE MATTHEWS, born 1860 Portsea, living IN Kingston-upon-Thames in 1891 ...............!!! And better still, the family in 1901, have moved to Holborn, just up the road from brother's address in Marylebone!

Woo hoo I've found Eliza Ann, or so I thought!!! It seemed (almost) as good as cut and dried, all I needed was to find the marriage.
It gets more complicated. There is another child in the family, also 4 years old - Ethel A. Matthews, born Holborn, which obviously sowed the seeds of doubt again!

But I can't find her birth either!!!
There are a couple of Ethel A. Matthews born 1896 and 1897, but in Camberwell - that's on the other side of the river from Holborn!

[Merry]

My brain has gone numb with the actual story, but would it help if we could find this person:

Births Sep 1896
Matthews Dorothy Kingston 2a 343


in 1911? (I can't at the moment! lol)

[Phoenix]

Trouble is, Dorothy could be the daughter of one of Lucy's friends and not necessarily related.

[Merry]

Yes, but if she was home with her parents we might be able to eliminate her.

I am waiting for FreeBMD to tell me she died, but it's being slow.

[Merry]

It's not obvious that she died before 1911.

[Olde Crone]

Lubannah=Sus(h)annah, maybe.

OC

[Terri]

This should have been so simple ...........!

I know it doesn't say that Dorothy is even a relative, but it just seemed such a tempting coincidence!

[Phoenix]

I can't even find William Harris's army records. Are they on FMP yet? They ought to be.

[Terri]

No idea, luckily, they were still in the family.

On that subject, his next of kin mother, and brothers were listed under their full names and addresses. It made me think that he wasn't sure of Annie's surname or address, which implied she had at least married.