Help to unravel this lot - Chancery claim/newspaper article [Archive] - Genealogists' Forum

JayG

31-03-10, 19:09

Found this article in the York Herald 12 & 17 Dec 1863.

RE BURSELL FAMILY

PURSUANT to the Decree of the High Court of Chancery, made in a Cause wherein WILLIAM NORTH & another are Plaintiffs & WILLIAM BURN & others are Defendants.

ANN late the Wife of JOHN JACKSON of York, Tailor, JOHN BURSELL of York, ANN the Wife of DAVID HADDON of Driffield, Yorkshire, Watchmaker, JAMES BURSELL of London, Innkeeper & ELIZABETH the Wife of GEORGE GRAY, Lund, Yorkshire, Tailor, relations of the Father of MARY BURSELL, late of Kingston upon Hull, Spinster (the Testatrix in the said Decree named & who died in or about the month of October 1855)

And ANN the Wife of JOHN REED of Epplesworth, Yorkshire, Farmer, MARY the Wife of ROBERT DALES of London, Cabinet-maker, DOROTHY the Wife of MATTHEW NORTH of Cottingham, Farmer, JULIA the Wife of THOMAS JACKSON of Elswick near Newcastle upon Tyne, relations of the Mother of the said MARY BURSELL

or such of the said several persons as are now living & the legal personal representatives of such of them as died or have died since 25th June 1860 & the Children or other issue of such the said several persons as died on or before the last mentioned day & the personal representatives of such Children or other issue as are dead, are by their Solicitors on or before 11th January 1864 to come in & prove their claims at Chambers of the MASTER OF THE ROLLS, Chancery Lane, Middlesex, or in default thereof they will be peremptorily excluded from the benefit of the said Decree.

TUESDAY 19th January 1864 at 11.15 at the said Chambers, is appointed for hearing & adjudicating upon the Claims.

Dated 2nd December 1863

GEO HUME, Chief Clerk, GRUEBER & COOPER, 5 Billiter Street, London, Solicitors for the Plaintiffs.

Ann & David Haddon are my 5 x great grandparents. Ann died in 1835 & David in 1850. Ann JONES married David HADDEN at Driffield, Yorkshire in 1803, she was born about 1774.

How is Ann Hadden/Haddon nee Jones related to the people in the first part of the article?

How can find any further info on this Bursell claim?

Thanks in advance

kiterunner

31-03-10, 19:15

I suppose one place to start is to look for a burial or death notice for Mary Bursell in October 1855 to find her age at death, then look for a baptism to find out who her father was as he is related to Ann.

kiterunner

31-03-10, 19:17

... and there is a death listed on Yorkshire BMD for Mary Bursell in 1855, age 54, subdistrict Myton, registers at Hull,. So if that's her she was born about 1801.

kiterunner

31-03-10, 19:20

Likely looking christening on the IGI - Mary Bursell christened 1st May 1801 Holy Trinity, Hull, parents David and Martha.

JayG

31-03-10, 19:34

Thanks Kite, that looks like her. I found this late lastnight & it didn't make much sense at the time.

Why can't I be related to the 2nd lot of people lol The IGI has likely marriages & they all appear to be Whitehead's, & there is a Martha Whitehead but I can't see a marriage to David Bursell.

David Bursell along with Mary are on the 1841 census at Neptune Street, Myton. Mary along with a 23 year old Rose JACKSON are still there in 1851, she's down as a servant but I guess is related either of the Jackson families.

JayG

31-03-10, 19:38

Yes it's her as her death notice states she was the only daughter of the late David Bursell.

JayG

31-03-10, 19:58

Are these two refs on TNA related to this article?

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=4379291&CATLN=6&Highlight=%2CBURSELL&accessmethod=0 J 68/22/1

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=4379295&CATLN=6&Highlight=%2CBURSELL&accessmethod=0 J 6/22/5

JayG

31-03-10, 20:04

Yes there are as refs J 68/22/2 - 4 & 6 - 7 all refer to names in the article & one in particualr is for David Hadden!!

JayG

31-03-10, 21:58

Never come across anything to do with Chancery claims before so i'm not fulling understanding what it is! LOL

Did Mary Bursell leave a will? I've found another article in The Hull Packet and East Riding Times 17th oct 1856

LEGACIES - A legacy of 19 guineas, by the late Miss Bursell of Coltman Street, to the Female Sick Visiting Society, has been paid by TJ Holmes, Esq. to the treasurer, Mrs Brown, 25 Whitefriargate, Miss Bursell also made bequests to several others charitable institustions in this town.

kiterunner

31-03-10, 22:12

Yes, she must have left a will because she is referred to as the Testatrix. The will must have been contested and so the Chancery Court would have been settling the dispute (or taking ages to settle it, more like). I have found quite a few Chancery cases in Google Book search, but not found this one in there yet.

I found a possible baptism for Mary's father David Bursell on the IGI, 15 Oct 1762 at Garton on the Wolds, Yorkshire, father James Bursell, with a brother Thomas baptised 1762 and a sister (or not) Mary baptised 1776. It doesn't give mother's names.

kiterunner

31-03-10, 22:15

Oh, and I think her will is probably at the Borthwick Institute in York.

JayG

31-03-10, 22:25

Thanks Kite.

Found another article from the same Solicitors advertising for proof of the marriage of John Bursell to Catherine Rumley about 1780 or 1781. I've found a marriage of John Bursell to Cathrine Romley on the IGI 3/9/1780 at Kilnwick Percy, Yorkshire.

Still can't see any connection to Ann Hadden nee Jones.

kiterunner

31-03-10, 22:26

George Gray married Elizabeth Bursell 3 Jun 1783 at Lund near Beverley.

Do you know the names of Ann Jones' parents?

JayG

31-03-10, 22:27

Oh, and I think her will is probably at the Borthwick Institute in York.

Thanks, I meant to ask that.

I've think her father left a will as he's in the death duties on FMP, but I can't see an entry for Mary, i've checked 1855, 1856, 1863 & 1864?

JayG

31-03-10, 22:29

George Gray married Elizabeth Bursell 3 Jun 1783 at Lund near Beverley.

Do you know the names of Ann Jones' parents?

Sadly no. I've got her marriage to David Hadden & her burial which is where i've got her age from. David Hadden was born in Ireland according to the 41 census, i'm guessing Ann was Yorkshire born got nothing to prove that.

kiterunner

31-03-10, 22:35

I expect Ann's mother was a Bursell then.

JayG

31-03-10, 22:35

David & Ann married by licence & that states they were both aged 28 years & upwards (dated 25/8/1803).

JayG

31-03-10, 22:55

The nearest thing to a Bursell/Jones marriage on the IGI is

William Jones & Isabella Boswell 13/2/1773 St Mary, Hull.

Then a baptism of an Ann Jones at Beverley, daughter of William Jones 22/11/1773.

Phoenix

01-04-10, 09:26

Phoenix

01-04-10, 18:29

This looks like the start:

16/155/N23 Cause number: 1863 N23. Short title: North v Burn. Documents: Bill only. Plaintiffs: William North and Charles North. Defendants: William Burn, George Septimus Tarbotton alias George Septimius Tarbottom and Thomas Holmes, Charles North, John North, James Credland, Alicia Hales, Isabella Hales, William Hales, Ellen Hales, Emily Hales, George Hales and Henry Hales infants. 1863

(Have you got a Tarbottom in your family?;))

Lindsay

01-04-10, 18:51

Jay,

One of my lot was involved with a case at the Court of High Chancery which popped up on TNA website (a little matter of a mortgage that was in arears when he died, and who should be allowed to inherit the land).

I arranged to see it at Kew - fascinating! I was presented with a huge roll, the size of a heathrug, which was all the cases taking place at around the same time. I had to scrabble though it to find the ones that were relevant.

But definitely one of the highlights of my family history research - if you find something similar I'd definitely advise seeing the real thing if possible!

JayG

01-04-10, 19:38

Jay, there should be lots more docs at TNA besides merely a pedigree. Probably under C rather than J to start with.

As so many people are involved, it is difficult to say who are actually named as plaintiff & defendant, but it's worth trying several surnames to see what comes up.

This looks like the start:

16/155/N23 Cause number: 1863 N23. Short title: North v Burn. Documents: Bill only. Plaintiffs: William North and Charles North. Defendants: William Burn, George Septimus Tarbotton alias George Septimius Tarbottom and Thomas Holmes, Charles North, John North, James Credland, Alicia Hales, Isabella Hales, William Hales, Ellen Hales, Emily Hales, George Hales and Henry Hales infants. 1863

(Have you got a Tarbottom in your family?;))

Thanks Brenda.

Not a Tarbottom in sight! Neither are any of the other names :confused:

Will see if I can find anything else on TNA.

JayG

01-04-10, 19:39

Phoenix

01-04-10, 20:00

You can always commission someone to do it for you:)

Though as Lindsay says, there is nothing like finding it out for yourself. In fact, you want a gopher to ferret everything out, then you order all the associated docs on a single day & snap away like mad!

Nell

02-04-10, 14:30

My ex's family tree has a chancery case back in 1799 which is really frustrating. The document I saw at Kew was another carpet rug - held down in the corners with beanbags. Unfortunately although it listed lots of peeps I know are related to my ex's family I couldn't work out how and the wretched document didn't say.

I do know that Druce v. Denison as the case was called was a landmark case and is used as a precedent and it all revolves around a revoked codicil, but I really can't make head or tail of it - and I really just wanted to know how these people are all connected.

It is wierd as the Will in question was Samuel Denison's and he had a lot of property and was an attorney. His nephew Samuel Price Denison, my ex's gt x 4 grandfather, who was the chap struck out of the codicil, was a clerk to an attorney - and his son became a very ordinary watchmaker!

JayG

20-04-10, 11:48

Maybe it might become clear Nell if i get to see the docs but at the mo i'm just finding more Bursell's & not seeing an connection to Ann Hadden/Haddon nee Jones.

I've got an estimate for copying the docs from the TNA, the only one I didn't was the ref Phoenix found (waiting for one now).

I've copied them below & would welcome advice on which YOU would order if you were you. The ones in red are related to Mary's father & somehow related to Ann Hadden/Haddon nee Jones.

At this stage I think the David Hadden pedigree is the only one that will be helpful, but the first ref has Hadden in the title so whether that has details of the Hadden/Jones family in I don't know - North v. Burn re Hadden dec.

I'm happy to pay £5.50 for the Hadden file, seems they might not be much in it. Going of the cost of the other files they appear to be larger & as the first one is £39.40 I expect it quite large!

Bursell info TNA

J 68/22/1 COST FOR COPY £39.40
Pedigree: Bursell, John (d.1806) Suit: North v. Burn re Hadden dec.

J 68/22/2 COST FOR COPY £29.40 - related to Mary's mother
Pedigree: North, Matt. Suit: The same

J 68/22/3 COST FOR COPY £5.50 - related to Mary's father
Pedigree: Hadden, David Suit: The same

J 68/22/4 *4 COST FOR COPY £29.40 - related to Mary's father
Description available at item or other catalogue level
Pedigree: Holmes, John (d.1776) Suit: The same
Pedigree: Jackson, John Suit: The same

J 68/22/5 COST FOR COPY £14.70 - related to Mary's father
Pedigree: Bursell, Jas. (d.1813) Suit: The same

J 68/22/6 COST FOR COPY £8.30 - related to Mary's mother
Pedigree: Dales, Rob. Suit: The same

J 68/22/7 COST FOR COPY £5.50 - related to Mary's father
Pedigree: Gray, Geo. Suit: The same

J 68/22/8 COST FOR COPY £5.50 - related to Mary's mother
Pedigree: Reed, John Suit: The same

C 16/155/N23 - awaiting estimate
Cause number: 1863 N23.
Short title: North v Burn.
Documents: Bill only.
Plaintiffs: William North and Charles North.
Defendants: William Burn, George Septimus Tarbotton alias George Septimius Tarbottom and Thomas Holmes, Charles North, John North, James Credland, Alicia Hales, Isabella Hales, William Hales, Ellen Hales, Emily Hales, George Hales and Henry Hales infants.
Provincial solicitor employed in Yorkshire.
3 working days to produce

Phoenix

20-04-10, 12:20

"These pedigrees were lodged in the former High Court of Chancery and its successor, the Chancery Division of the High Court of Justice, by claimants to the estates of deceased persons. They were filed in connection with actions concerning the administration of wills and intestacies and dealt with by various Chancery masters to whom the suit in question was referred by the court for investigation and report."

I would think you would need somebody who was an ancestor of yours, or the most closely related person.

JayG

21-04-10, 23:01

Thanks for the reply Phoenix, pleased someone did lol

David Hadden/Ann Jones are my direct line so i'll just order those docs for the time being & see where it leads me, hopefully to the Bursell's lol.

JayG

18-05-10, 20:42

The North v Burn papers have arrived but not the Hadden Pedigree. Not really any further forward tho the papers state most of the people named on the 1863 papers are 'friends' & not relatives. They were trying to claim their share of £3000 & £1500 under a clause in the will of Mary's father & possibly her brother.

Hopefully the Hadden pedigree, when it arrives, will explain it all!

Mary from Italy

18-05-10, 21:37

I think "friends" was sometimes used to mean next of kin.

One of my relatives was in a lunatic asylum, and it says in her file that her "friends" got her discharged, but it turned out to be her parents. This was in 1901.

kiterunner

18-05-10, 21:52

Yes, I've seen "friends" used to mean relatives a few times.

JayG

18-05-10, 21:58

At the mo i'm inclined to think they are just friends as the clause relates to the relatives named in the 1st post.

I've ordered wills via British Orgins for Mary & her father so hope to gain somemore info from them, as well as the Hadden file.

There's a slim chance I might get to London soon so might get to see all the files.

ElizabethHerts

19-05-10, 07:13

One of my Jeffcoat ancestor's had a will with the words "my friend".

This was being researched way back in the 1980s and no-one could find any baptisms etc.
It turned out that the "friend" denoted a Quaker, and bingo, all the information came flooding in!

So beware, "friend" may mean a Quaker!

JayG

19-05-10, 21:11

Oh don't mention Quakers! This is far too confusing without involving anything else.

Still waiting on the Hadden papers :(

Olde Crone

19-05-10, 21:16

I would also suggest that "friends" can mean "those who ought to have your best interests at heart" which might include relatives as well as friends, lol!

I have an early marriage (we;ll, 1798) of a minor, who married "with the permission of her friends". I know she was an orphan at the time of her marriage. The friends were not named, but a witness was possibly a brother (same surname).

OC

JayG

19-05-10, 21:38

Actually re-reading it (several times lol), the newspaper article & some other references i've come across *some* do look to relatives, namely Thomas Holmes & the North's.

There's so many people named I keep loosing track!

Will there be any further papers which clarifies if any of them did get a share of the £3000 & £1500, or how this amounts were distributed? The papers I have for the 'bill' were files 21st May 1863, the newspaper article was Dec 1863 & an appeal to the Parish Clerks for proof of a marriage of John Bursell to Catherine Rumbley was in the paper 16th April 1864. Can I assume that it was after April 1864 that the claim(s) was finalised?

JayG

20-05-10, 20:06

The Hadden papers are sitting at the PO as i'd already left for work when they tried to deliver them today :( Sadly my letterbox isn't big enough get A2 paper through lol :d :d

JayG

21-05-10, 18:31

Now have the Hadden papers but is just about the complete opposite of what the thought it would be! It's titled Pedigree so to me would start with Ann Hadden nee Jones & show her connection to the Bursell's which it doesn't. It a descendants chart which has David & Ann's children & great children.

But saying that is has maiden names for 2 pre 1837 marriages I couldn't find, another children of my 4 x great grandparents who died age 2 days & the biggy for me is the death date of my 4 x great grandfather, a marriner who dissappears of the face of the earth. It looks like he may of died at sea!

I've got somemore questions for anyone more experienced with this type of thing & searching the TNA Catalogue. Any takers???

Olde Crone

21-05-10, 19:10

Jay

Put your questions up here and then we can all learn something, maybe!

JayG

21-05-10, 19:24

Ok OC here goes.

It's a basic hand drawn tree & various people have see exhibit A, B, C etc - Question where are the exhibits? Have tried searching the TNA Catalogue but can't come up with anything, will the exhibits be filed with another tree?

At the bottom of the tree is says Thomas Alsop filed 2 affidavits in 1862 (dates not too clear), affidavits from a William Taylor & William Simpson? (surname not clear) were also filed in 1862. Again have tried searching the TNA Catalogue but can't come up with anything, where are the affidavits?

Repeating my question from post 36

Will there be any further papers which clarifies if any of them did get a share of the £3000 & £1500, or how this amounts were distributed? The papers I have for the 'bill' were files 21st May 1863, the newspaper article was Dec 1863 & an appeal to the Parish Clerks for proof of a marriage of John Bursell to Catherine Rumbley was in the paper 16th April 1864. Can I assume that it was after April 1864 that the claim(s) was finalised?

Any advice welcome

annswabey

21-05-10, 19:52

I'd suggest you look at the Chancery Research Guides on the TNA website. The matter is by no means straightforward and a lot is unindexed so wouldn't appear on the Catalogue.

JayG

21-05-10, 20:28

Doh! In my excitement i've got a mushy brain. Having read the guides (will have to read them several times I think) as you say Ann it's not straightforward.

So looking at the guides there are several more documents it's just a case of finding them .... simples!

Think this might take days at Kew & being in the North East that won't be easy plus i've never been before & not sure this is the best thing to do on a first visit!

Olde Crone

21-05-10, 20:46

I do know, from one of "my" Chancery cases, that many bits of paper pertaining to the pedigrees were missing, presumably having been shown to the Court and then tucked away back into the solicitor's papers.

OC

Mary from Italy

21-05-10, 21:00

JayG

21-05-10, 21:03

That sounds about right OC.

Whilst i'm happy with the Hadden tree I have received i'm disappointed there is nothing on Ann Jones' parents, a current brickwall!

Well actually i'm quite please with what i've got as it looks like my missing 4 x great grandfather John Kelley died at Greenwich's floating Seamen's Hospital in 1855 on the ex-naval ship HMS Dreadnought. The National Maritime Museum have the admission registers so this Chancery case has opened up a few avenues to explore.

JayG

21-05-10, 21:10

You may have seen this page already, but in case you hadn't, it looks as though several pedigrees were filed in that suit:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/browser.asp?CATLN=3&CATID=8368&GPE=False&DOWN=TRUE&MARKER=20000&MARKERSCN=&j=1

Thanks Mary, I have seen those & got estimate for copies of all of them. For the papers that relate to Mary Bursell's father (Ann Hadden was related to him) would cost £92 for copies. As i'm none the wiser what the connection to the Bursell's is & going off the Hadden pedigree I don't think they will reveal Ann's relation to them :confused:

JayG

21-05-10, 21:19

Just found several referances to the Bursell family on East Yorkshire's Archives website, mainly family papers, diaries & account books. East Yorks is far nearer than Kew & may hold the key to Ann's relationship to the Bursell's.

JayG

22-05-10, 18:56

Got several dates the North v Burn case appeared at Chancery from searching the 19th newspapers so hopefully if & when I get to Kew should make it slightly more easier.

Couldn't get into Ancestry lastnight but today i've found John Kelley's burial on the LMA records which confirms his did die at Greenwich's floating Seamen's hospital, over the moon to solve this as he wasn't on the 51 census with his wife & I thought he must of been lost at sea.

JayG

26-05-10, 21:28

The wills arrived today, still none the wiser but hey what did I expect lol

Mary's will is 5 pages & has 2 codicil, she did very well for herself leaving £8000.

More Bursell rellies named & some of the same surnames but none stating the relationship.

My quest continues :d

JayG

02-06-10, 16:56

I'm off to Kew w/c 7th June 2010 tho whether all will be revealed i'll have to wait to see!

Phoenix

02-06-10, 17:27

Jay, some of the stuff will be in the saltmines, three days to arrive. Do you have the first doc in the case - the one in the Catalogue?

JayG

02-06-10, 20:44

Hi Brenda

I've ordered & received a paper copy of the one you found.

16/155/N23 Cause number: 1863 N23. Short title: North v Burn. Documents: Bill only. Plaintiffs: William North and Charles North. Defendants: William Burn, George Septimus Tarbotton alias George Septimius Tarbottom and Thomas Holmes, Charles North, John North, James Credland, Alicia Hales, Isabella Hales, William Hales, Ellen Hales, Emily Hales, George Hales and Henry Hales infants. 1863

I can't see anymore refs online but have found several dates North v Burn appeared at Chancery from the 19th newspapers so hoping these will lead to other records at Kew.

I've never been to Kew so don't have a reader ticket to order other docs in advance etc. It's all going to be a new experience & if the docs aren't available while i'm there then I should have a better idea of what needs to be ordered/done for my next visit.

I think it's going to take several visits to unravel all of this anyway but have a few other bits I can look up if the Bursell info isn't available to me.