View Full Version : John Gerhold's marriage
John Gerhold married Mary Ann Chapman Coe per the LMA indexes on Ancestry. He should be a baker.
Would sks look at the image for me, please?
I am hoping that he is the son of Henry (Heinrich?) Gerhold.
Well, he is a baker, but his father is down as Johann Josh (?) Gerhold a farmer.
Well, that reduces that problem.
I am trying to sort out the various Gerholds who came from from Grifte in Germany. Most of them started off as bakers. There must have been some important family occasion which took them home as three of them travelled BACK to England in July 1851 together: C Gerhold, J Gerhold & J Gerhold.
You couldn't see who the father of Johannes Herman Gerhold was, could you, Merry? I think he's out of my league as his wife is dripping with jewels when she dies, but you never know!
You couldn't see who the father of Johannes Herman Gerhold was, could you, Merry? I think he's out of my league as his wife is dripping with jewels when she dies, but you never know!
Do you mean the one who married Jane Matilda something in 1845, St Geo in the East?
That one is strange.....
Yes please, pretty please!
Why is it strange?!
Because his first name was Johann, same as the one who married Miss Coe and they were both bakers, but they also both seem to have the same father! lol 'Johann' then that middle name I couldn't read before....Josh, Tosh or something, Gerhold. This time dad isn't a farmer but a blacksmith. (not that grand!! lol) Maybe the two fathers were cousins rather than the same person, though I do have a family on my tree who had two sons with the same first name alive at the same time and didn't think it odd, so you never know!
Oh I get it now. They are both the same man, but he said bachelor both times. Jane Matilda died in 1856.
Jane Matilda left a will (PCC on TNA)
Thank you very much, Merry!
I had thought that John & Johannes Herman were two different men, & puizzled by them being at the same address in 1851 and 1861!
Now I wonder what happened to the "other" John Gerhold - the one who is with Cornelius [sic] Gerhold in 1851? I'll have to have another look after work.
Jane Matilda left a will (PCC on TNA)
That's how I knew she was dripping with jewels - and why I had assumed her husband was dead. Mistakenly:o
kiterunner
22-03-10, 13:43
That middle name (John / Johann's father) definitely begins with a J. I think it's Jost.
kiterunner
22-03-10, 13:44
Ooh, if you google for "Johann Jost Gerhold" there are some matches!
And NOBODY is interested in siblings!
I'm trying to hunt down Ceriacus aka Cornelius aka a lot of spelling mistakes Gerhold. I know he comes from Grifte, father Henry. He is a baker. I refuse to believe that the other Gerholds, also from Grifte & bakers are not related. But can I prove it?!
That's how I knew she was dripping with jewels - and why I had assumed her husband was dead. Mistakenly:o
Good point - it does actually say 'widow' after her name on the TNA index! A bit odd?
That's how I knew she was dripping with jewels
Jane Matilda's father was a jeweller.
No wonder they went back to her family, then!
*shrieks of disbelief*
There is a THIRD John Gerhold floating around. He married Mary Dummert in Dec 1837 quarter. HIS father appears to be John or a variant.
HE is in William Street in 1841, as a baker.
In 1861, he is running the Three Bells, 7 Whitechapel Rd & he's dead by 1871.
Where is he in 1851? He should have wife Mary & sons Heinrich & George.
And what about James and William who are with him in 1841? Brothers?
George b 1849 in Whitechapel is a nurse child in 1851 in Woodford, Essex. The head of house is James Smith a carpenter aged 61. He and his wife, Ann have a child of 13 plus a grandchild (younger) and two nurse children aged 2.
Maybe George's parents and brother were out of the country? I can't find them yet!
I need a wet towel & a darkened room!
John & Johannes Herman know each other. JH takes over as baker at 33 William St approximately when J becomes a licenced victualler, running, amongst other pubs, the Prince of Orange.
It may be that John goes back to Grifte pre census. Ciriacus follows. They comes back together, possibly with the John who is with Ciriacus in 1851, possibly with JH.
I was looking at the Alien Entry books when I was at TNA, & it looks as if:
Dependenants aren't names.
Lots of people slip through.
I don't know who James & William Gerhold are. I can't find them on any other censuses. I suspect they went home or on to America.
I begin to wish I could speak German!
Uncle John
23-03-10, 21:13
I begin to wish I could speak German!
Give it time, it'll come to you.
Give it time, it'll come to you.
Only on the principle that monkeys could write Shakespeare:d
Are John (who married Mary) & Johannes Herman (who married Jane Matilda & then Mary Ann Chapman Coe) brothers?
John b 1808 Grifte comes to England in 1832 & gets naturalised c 1841. All children born England. Lives at 33 William St as a baker, then starts running pubs. Lives in 16 Fieldgate St in 1844.
Johannes, baker, b 19 Oct 1814 Grifte comes to England 2 May 1840 "carried on business on his own account 2 years & upwards" in 1846 when living at 33 William St & has a reference from Johannes Gerhold of Fieldgate St Wine merchant.
Ciriacus, baker, born c 1823, Grifte, comes to England c 1844 (ie when Johannes starts on his own account). When he is naturalised, one of his referees is Joseph Sadler, butcher, of 14 Fieldgate St.
They have to know each other.
And now I am really confused, because several trees appear to show Jane Matilda having surviving children born in Germany, but Johannes has none with him in 1861.
Hmm
Post Office Directory for 1854 has Jane Matilda Gerhold as baker at 33 William St. Did Johannes do a runner, do you suppose? Only coming back after her death?
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