This is a unusual

[Kit]

Thanks to a lovely lady on this site I have just found out I am now the proud owner of a 4g greandfather who was not only a pauper living in a workhouse for at least 4 years but a property owner receiving rental income. :confused: :confused:

For some reason John was not getting his rent although this discovery was due to him being allowed, by the workhouse, to receive 5 shillings of the rent.

Not sure where to go from here. John's wife was still alive when he was in the workhouse so I have ordered her death certificate in the hope she died at home.
I ordered John's cert recently so I live in hope it may say how long he was in the workhouse for.

[Olde Crone]

Toni

Have you seen the message on rootsweb regarding John Candy, bookbinder/printer of Truro? Or was it you who posted it, lol.

OC

[Kit]

No and I don't think so.

I'll go check though.

[Kit]

It's not me OC. I have had contact with Betty before. She has a lot of info but I don't remember anything from her indicating John Candy was in a workhouse.

[Olde Crone]

Also an old posting on Genforum....John Candy m Elizabeth Watkins Allen, lots of children, a daughter Elizabeth Randall Candy m Thomas Trevithick and emigrated to Aus....

OC

[Kit]

Thomas and Elizabeth are where I come into the family.

Don't think I posted on Genforum though.

There are a lot of extended family. One woman has done a one named study on Candy families. John is not part of her family though so she has a little on him. Most people seem to take what she says and leave it at that.

[JBee]

Do you think he was there because he was ill - not because he was poor?

[Kit]

No what OC found said that he was a pauper.

On the 1881 census there was no indication he was an imbecile or deaf, blind etc.

In fact OC feels that he must have had all his facilites intact to convince the guardians to give him the money. His own money I might add.

It is very strange.

[Olde Crone]

AAAHHH!! Breakthrough, I think!

Shoulda gone to A2A in the first place, it never fails me.

John Candy is mentioned many times in documents held by Cornwall Records Office (!!!!!!!but not listed in their blinky online catalogue.....)

It would appear that he inherited land in Truro in Trust and was entitled to a moiety (a share of the rents). He could not sell the property, it wasn't his, it was in trust, so he was technically a pauper. A later document assigns part of the moiety to William Candy of Australia.

The Candy (Gandy) family appear to be an old Cornish one, so I am assuming your John was born in Dover by accident, pmsl. It looks as if his father was Roger Candy, in the Devon and Cornwall militia, does that sound right?

There is also a John Candy of Kenwyn, getting two months hard labour in 1830 for pinching copper, TUT TUT, Kit!

OC

[Kit]

Wow OC you are good. I don't like A2A, I find it hard to use.

John's father is Roger, mother Susanna Cartric (or similar, it's never written the same way twice). William is a brother of John's, I think, but definitely a relative. He ended up in Victoria, which is hard to ressearch without paying and I haven't investigated what info I have been given.

No idea what Roger did offhand, it hasn't made it to my online notes yet. As for Dover they were there a while as an elder son, also John, was baptised in Dover. I assumed he died there but haven't found a death yet.

As for convicted John, prove he's mine. lol His son Samuel was baptised in July 1830. * panics I have no source for this *


OC, I think you may need to go back to the records office ... * insert begging smilie *

[Olde Crone]

Kit

There is mention of Samuel Candy, formerly GANDY, a cordwainer, in May 1854. His shares in the trust of Roger Candy are now assigned to John Candy. This might (just) be John's son Samuel, or it might be an earlier Samuel.

I am happy to go back to the CRO but not sure what these documents will tell us - they are land transactions/leases/releases and the meat of them is in the description usually. (Names etc, the rest is legalese).

There is also mention of John Candy in 1804 at Cospenheale, Trewen...brother to Roger maybe?

I'm sure I saw something about Susannah, widow....let me go back ad check.

(Actually, you can look yourself, of course! Go to Cornwall Records Office > Search> Search A2A. Candy....should bring up eight pages of Candy references, not all Cornwall but who cares....and an intriguing reference to candied sea holly root......)

OC

[Olde Crone]

Bit more...

I think Susannah's maiden name was probably CARBIS. Daughter Susannah CARVIS born 1837. Carbis is quite a common Cornish surname.

Susannah Carvis Candy married in 1855 and her father was witness.

I was trying to get Lemon Row on Google street view. Wouldn't you know it, they haven't filmed it but from memory it is a pretty row of cottages. Roger Candy built some of these cottages.

Lemon Street is still the premier street in Truro and is a fine example of a Georgian Street. It ran off from Strangways Terrace, another premier street and Barrack Lane, which housed the Barracks (!) of the Devon and Cornwall militia and had some very fine houses indeed. Most gone, but one or two do remain, a bit dilapidated.

Lemon Row is in the middle of this area, so was a most desirable spot to build in the early 1800s. Roger was described as a Scrivener at that time.

I am getting the impression of a fairly important family locally, which makes it all the more odd that John should finish up a pauper in the workhouse.

OC

[Kit]

I have a brother for Roger called Samuel but anything past John I'm haven't verified properly. I have no John's but it is possible.

Susanna Cartric married Roger Candy according to 2 transcriptions I've seen. I've also seen Carvis and Carbis. I've just checked the Pallots Marriage Index on Ancestry. It is transcribed as Cartris and except for the cross of the t, it could be a badly written Carbis.

Are any of these documents downloadable? Maybe I should put them on my wishlist of things to get.

[Kit]

Just tried the A2A search and couldn't get the 8 pages you had. lol

I did find John Candy convicted of copper stealing. It said he was a labourer so I wonder if he was actually my John. I need to check some baptismal records to see if there is an occupation against John's name.

[Kit]

OC do you know if they have removed reocrds from the Cornwall OPC?

I had John's marriage to Elizabeth Allen from this site but now it is not there.

Edit: The OPC for Truro has her own website. The info came from there.

[Olde Crone]

Kit

I do find the Cornish OPC quite difficult to negotiate. I didn't find much and got the impression it isn't complete?

I found baptism of "Rodger GANDY" parents John and Elizabeth, 3 July 1835 Truro St Mary, which I reckon is Roger Candy junior.

OC

[Kit]

OC I don't think it is complete but it is the best OPC I've found. I've emailed the Truro OPC as I think I've found 2 more children for John and Elizabeth but she hasn't put those records online yet.

I saw the Roger Gandy too. I suspect Roger Jr ended up down under, with brother John. If I'm right they ended up at the cemetery near me. I'll pop out soon and have a look and see if there is anything on the gravestones.

I'm having a look at Susanna Carbis's family (Roger Snr's wife) at the moment. Seeing what I can find on the OPC and census. Her uncle seems to have had 11 children with wife number one, none with second wife but I think he had wife number 3 with a young child or two at age 70. It was late at night so I need to check that wife #3 is correct but he certainly was an active man. lol

[Olde Crone]

There's a burial of a Roger Candy, 1839 Truro - is this Roger junior or senior, I wonder? Do you have the family(s) on census?

OC

[Kit]

I think that is Roger Snr. His wife is living with grandchildren in 1841 and is a widow in 1851.

I can't find the burial though. Is it Candy you found it under? Or is it the FreeBMD entry?

[Olde Crone]

Ummm...think it must have been the freebmd entry, I've scribbled it in the margin without any source, lol, sorry!

But Roger must have left a Will. This would of course probably only tell you what you already know, i.e. the names of his children etc and possibly details of the Trust (although not necessarily, if the Trust was set up before his death).

OC

[Kit]

Knowing all Roger's children could be useful. I have John, that we all know, Ann b 1800 d 1816 but I don't know where I got her from, another John b and d before my John and then no more until 1815.

I had a look at the A2A and the land Roger leased. He got it for 2 pounds, by the last record it was about 177 pounds, although that wasn't paid to the Candy family.