Is this my lost great great grandmother in 1881?

[JayG]

If this woman hadn't been dead for the last 76 years i'd of killed her by now!

She's been the hardest person to research but since the 1911 census i've slowly started to demolish the concrete reinforced wall after 10 years!

Anyway i've never been able to find her on the 1881 census, but since Ancestry changed to use of the wildcard I think I might of finally found her.

Can I have your opinions please on this 1881 find please. I've had to put up this timeline so you can see the problems i've had.


1858 - Hannah Fisher baptismed at Tilston, Cheshire, daughter of Eliza Fisher

1861 - Hannah Fisher aged 2 born Tilston 'nursery' to Samuel & Elizabeth Rowland at Hampton, Shropshire

1866 - Eliza Fisher married Aaron Moulton in Nantwich, Cheshire

1871 - Hannah Molton aged 12 born Tilston daughter to Aaron & Eliza Molton at Alsager, Cheshire

1878 - Hannah Thanwill aged 21 married George Brunskill at Salford, Lancashire. Her father is listed as Charles Thanwill (Dec'd) Farmer

1881 - never found Hannah & George Brunskill on the census, tho last year found out that George was in the army in Meerut

1882 - daughter born in Co Durham

1884 - son born in Bishop Auckland, Co Durham, mother as Hannah Elizabeth Brunskill formerly Fisher (registerd by mother)

1886 - daughter born in Bishop Auckland, Co Durham, mother as Elizabeth Brunskill formerly Thinwhile (registered by a person unrelated to the family)

1888 - daughter born in Bishop Auckland, Co Durham, mother as Hannah Elizabeth Brunskill formerly Thinwill (registered by father)

1890 - Husband George Brunskill dies, headstone states husband of Elizabeth

1891 - Elizabeth Brunskill (widow) aged 29 born Cheshire living in Bishop Auckland, Co Durham

1893 - Hannah Elizabeth Brunskill, a widow aged 30 married John Wilson in in Bishop Auckland, Co Durham. Her father is listed as Charles Fisher (Dec'd) Farmer

1901 - Hannah Wilson aged 40 born Wales, Cardiff living in Bishop Auckland, Co Durham

1911 - Hannah Wilson aged 49 born Tilston living in Bishop Auckland, Co Durham

1934 - Hannah Wilson aged 75 died

It's hard to believe that this is the same woman but i'm 100% sure of it.

Now lastnight I found this woman in 1881, she's the only one that's anything like the person i'm looking for

1881 - Hannah Eliz Boulskill (ancestry's transcripton but the image looks like Brulskill) a married servant aged 21 born Wales, Hollow Farm living in Knowlend, Audley, Staffordshire

Is this my missing great great grandmother???

Got to pop out now but will be back later.

[JayG]

Hmmm 15 views & no opinions!

Come on folks i'm all ears lol

[Nell]

I think its as likely as not Jay but I am confused about where Thanwill comes into it!

[JayG]

Your not alone Nell!

It all started with getting the birth cert for her son (my great grandfather) born 1884 with her maiden name as Fisher, that tied in nicely with her second marriage in 1893 naming Charles Fisher as her father. Then I spent about 5 years trying to find Hannah Fisher's marriage to George Brunskill, this I never found so got the birth certs for the last 2 daughters which gave a different surname then bingo the 1878 Thanwill marriage turns up!

The only thing anywhere close to Thanwill & the Fishers is that Hannah's aunt, also a Hannah married a Thomas Thelwell. I've found 2 Charles Thelwell's with connections to Malpas, Cheshire but have no way of confirming if either is her father.

[JayG]

I'm just putting this here as i'm going round in circles & need to talk out loud lol

I've found Thomas & Charles Thewell sons of Thomas & Elizabeth. Thomas (jun'r) married Hannah Fisher, it's possible Hannah Fisher's (born 1858) father was Charles Thelwell.

I've found a death of a Charles Thelwall in 1871 aged 28, Hannah's father is listed as deceased when she married in 1878 so in theory it looks good, proving it isn't easy tho.

[JayG]

Scrap that Thomas Thelwell who married Hannah Fisher is the son of Joseph not Thomas.

[marquette]

1881 - Hannah Eliz Boulskill (ancestry's transcripton but the image looks like Brulskill) a married servant aged 21 born Wales, Hollow Farm living in Knowlend, Audley, Staffordshire

Is this my missing great great grandmother???

I think you may have found her, but I am not sure why you think Hannah Molton in 1871 is the same person ?

Di

[kiterunner]

Yes, could well be her. Tilston isn't very far from Wales, is it?

[JessBow]

What connects your 1871 & 1878?

I'll think about it again, but how did you know she was yours?

[JayG]

Thanks for the replies.

The 1871 census for her should in theory say Hannah Fisher step daughter of Aaron Moulton. Hannah's mother Eliza Fisher married widowed Aaron Moulton in 1866.

[marquette]

Thanks for the replies.

The 1871 census for her should in theory say Hannah Fisher step daughter of Aaron Moulton. Hannah's mother Eliza Fisher married widowed Aaron Moulton in 1866.

That's true, but she might have been known as Moulton while growing up in the household and used her real name only officially. We have some children at school who do this, saves confusion with the parents being called the wrong name.

If it only names Charles Fisher as her father on her second marriage cert, maybe she had forgotten, or did not want her second husband to know she was illegit ? Maybe he knew her mother was Eliza Fisher Moulton and assumed Charles Fisher was her father, not Charles Thanwill. Can you look at who the marriage witnesses were ? Any Fishers or Thanwills, or just Wilsons ? If Charles Thanwill is her father, why did he and Eliza not marry, it would not have been that unusual ? Lots of people told fibs on their marriage certificates, especiallly the second time around - my great-grandma even said she was a widow, when she weren't.


Di

[JessBow]

What I meant really was, how is 1878 Hannah Thanwell yours? Childs birth cert gives that maiden name I guess

[JayG]

In answer to Jess I suppose if I flip the question I know that George in 1878, all 3 of the birth certs (the oldest child I don't have but have seen it & has a Thanwell variation on) & the 1890 death are the same person, which is how I have linked Hannah to the other records.

To answer Di to be honest I don't think Hannah really knew her correct name or age & I don't think she lived with her mother for long. She's a 'nursery' to an unknown couple miles away from her mother in 1861, married in Lancashire fairly young, moved to her husband's home County (Durham) & retired with her second husband to Lincolnshire. Her mother on the other hand stayed in the same area of Cheshire & lived close by to her children with Aaron Moulton.

Neither of her marriages are witnessed by family members. The 1878 one was witnessed by a woman she appears to of worked with & a man her husband was in the army with. Her second marriage was witnessed by a serial witness & a neighbour.

Her second husband was from Essex & moved to Durham so I don't think he would of known Hannah's family & maybe nothing of her past.

The two Charles Thelwell's that are in the right area in Cheshire both appear to have married in the mid 1860's. Thanwell/Thanwell seems to be a possible so I need to research these 2 in depth tho can't see anyway of proving either were her father unless my some miracle they left wills & name Hannah as a daughter!