Who is my great great grandfather?

[Kit]

This may sound sill but I know my 3g grandparents but I am not certain which of their sons is my 2g grandfather.

They have a son Henry John b abt 1846 and a son John b. abt 1858.

My 2g grandfather goes by the name of both John and Henry John. :rolleyes:

This is what I have:

John Blackmore aged 29 married Mary Annie Thorne in 1888. (ie John b 1859)

John Blackmore was aged 32 in 1891 when his daughter was born. (born 1859)

John Blackmore was aged 36 when another daughter was born in 1895. (born 1859)

In 1907 on Mary Ann Blackmore's death cert her BIL George Blackmore stated her OH was Henry John Blackmore. (no age)

Between 1903 and 1913 he appears on the Sands Directory as H Blackmore.

1913 named as Henry John Blackmore on eldest daughter's marriage cert.

Henry John Blackmore aged 54 married Minnie Watson in 1914. ie (born 1860)

On 3 electoral rolls in NSW for 1930, 1936 and 1937 he is known as Henry John B.

Henry John B died in 1939 aged 80 (born 1859). (death cert and newspaper death notice).

Now while the age points to my 2g grandfather being John why did he use the name Henry? I have not been able to pinpoint a death for Henry John.

Both were born in Ash Priors Somerset and my 2g grandfather immigrated to Aus sometime before he married in 1888. His death cert says he had been in Aus for 52 years ie since 1887. His brother George arrived 1883 according to his death cert.

I know this might sound silly but I came at this knowing his name was Henry John from his daughters marriage cert and getting further proof afterwards.

[Kit]

Just to confuse things further I have found John's baptism transcribed twice, once as 1857 and once as 1858 so the age is out slightly for John.

Henry John was baptised 15/3/1846.

[marquette]

You would have to think that John b 1858/9, for some reason, assumed the name Henry John, maybe in honour of his brother, who it appears was some 13-14 years older than himself. Perhaps on the early registrations (marriage and first two daughters, his brother Henry John was still alive, and HE knew his name was John (did he register the two daughters ?). When others did the registration, and for the Sands Directory, Henry was included.

Perhaps the first Henry John Blackmore died between 1895 and 1903 when he assumed the name ? There are freebmd entries for Henry John Blackmore d Mar Q 1865 and d Mar Q 1903, both in Taunton Reg District which covers Ash Priors.

Di

[marquette]

Is this Henry John's birth registration ? No John included, but maybe only by baptism he was Henry John Blackmore

Births
Mar 1846
Blackmore Henry Taunton 10 478


and one of these three is probably John

Births
Sep 1857
Blackmore John Taunton 5c 405

Births
Sep 1858
Blackmore John Taunton 5c 396
Blackmore John Taunton 5c 422


Di

[Kit]

Thanks for looking Di.

I think that is Henry John's birth reg, there is also one in Jun 1845 but they seemed to have baptised the children quickly based on the other children's baptisms and the birth refs I've found, although I haven't got the certs themselves.

I've ordered John's birth cert.

I guess my problem is that I always thought it was Henry John, as that was what the family knew him as. It was a long time later that I got the documents and looked at the ages and realised the dates didn't add up.

I'll look at those deaths and see if there might be an age. I don't think Somerset charge if they can't find the cert.

I wish I could find convincing census entries for either of them. The children seem to leave home quite young.

[Kit]

The 1903 death for Henry John is for someone born 1858, so that one doesn't count. lol

[Lindsay]

If you've only found the baptisms, is there any chance he was baptised twice - once as a baby as John and again when he was older as Henry John?

I guess the only way to be sure is to order some birth certs (ouch)

[kiterunner]

If he was the one born 1846 then he would have been about 93 when he died. I suppose it's possible he could pass for 80 but it seems very unlikely?

1851 Thomas Blackmore and Mary have son Henery age 5. In 1861 Henry Blackmore age 15 is with his grandparents. Is that the right family, and have you found John in 1861?

Update - 1861 at Combe Florey, Somerset, transcribed as Blackmon, Thomas and Mary have lots of children including George 3 and John 2, so John is definitely not the same person as Henry.

[Kit]

Yes Kate that is the right family.

There is no other Henry in the extended family, that I know of, so he is with his grandparents on 1861. After that I have found people who may be Henry but as he is not with family I was never certain.

I don't remember what I had for John so I'm going so search again and attach the census to my FTM.

Sadly knowing he was a grumpy, hard old man doesn't help work out who he was.

[Kit]

Found this on the 1881 census which should be the last for John if he is my 2g grandfather.

RG11; Piece: 668; Folio: 81; Page: 13;

He is a baker with his younger brother Thomas, which fits as he was a baker in Oz until he went bankrupt.

The interesting thing is John admits to age 25, (born 1856 which fits with the baptisms but nothing else) but Thomas is 28 (1853) when I have him being born abut Oct 1860.

[Kit]

I may have found John's arrival in Oz as well.

Victoria, Australia, Assisted and Unassisted Passenger Lists, 1839-1923 <http://www.Ancestry.com.au/search/db.aspx?dbid=1635&enc=1>

Name: John Blackmore
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Age: 26
Arrival Date: 21 Mar 1885
Arrival Port: Adelaide, Melbourne and Sydney, Australia
Departure Port: London
Ship: Orient
Nationality: English

I wish it said which port he arrived at though, Adelaide, Melbourne and Sydney aren't exactly close and that the records said where from rather than nationality.

Maybe I should go and dig him up? Can "they" distiguish between 93 and 80 year old bones? Not counting my aunt, my Mum is his next of kin. :rolleyes:

[Kit]

If I have the right Mary, John and Mary married just over a month after she arrived in Aust.

[kiterunner]

His age on everything seems to point to him being John, and just adding a Henry to his name at some stage for whatever reason.

[Kit]

When I first discovered the age discrepancy I did myself a little spreadsheet to work out the ages and names. I was not convinced that John was my direct relative. There must have been something that gave me a different age, but I can't think what else I might have but forgotten.

[Kit]

If I have the right Mary, John and Mary married just over a month after she arrived in Aust.

Just heard back from NSW BMD. You had to wait 1 month and a day to get married back then as well as now.

So if I found the right Mary arriving, they must have known each other prior to her arrival and they completed the paperwork as soon as she arrived.

It sounds a bit romantic doesn't it? He comes out, works to get himself established and maybe to pay her way out. She comes out and they get married.