Scottish baptism question

[maggie_4_7]

Would I be right in thinking if for a baptism it said:

Wilson, James natural son to Alexander Wilson and Abigail Stewart was born...

... that Alexander and Abigail weren't married.

I ask because on the other baptisms on the page all the others say lawful not natural!!

[Merry]

That's what I would think if it was an English bap, but I don't have any experience of Scottish ones. I presume all the baps show mmn in the same format for Scots baps?

[maggie_4_7]

The Scottish baptisms always name the father with first name and surname and the mother with first name and her maiden surname whether married or not.

James is the only one with Natural and not Lawful so I am assuming that meant they weren't married i.e. legally born.On some of the English I've seen they have put Base or in some cases even Bastard...!

[Merry]

I have seen 'natural' used for English ones where the parents were not married and where only a mother was recorded.

[Olde Crone]

Lawful = married.

Natural = not married.

Lawful in the sense that this child is entitled to inherit, to be supported by the father, to enter certain trades and professions, because born within marriage.

Natural - parents not married but there is little or no doubt who the father is. However, that lack of doubt counts for nothing legally, although maybe it does socially!

In England, my illegitimate ancestors are described as just that - illegitimate or bastard, except for one or two who are described as "natural son/daughter of...." where the natural father has some kind of standing in the local community, and the Vicar does not wish to offend by calling the son of the Squire a bastard, lol!

OC

[kiterunner]

The letter of administration for my great-grandmother's estate describes her children as "the natural and lawful" children of her husband, and I looked natural up at the time because I was confused, and it said in the dictionary that it meant "related by actual birth i.e. not adopted, hence (rare) legitimate, now usually means illegitimate".

So it was sometimes used to mean "legitimate" in the past!

[Merry]

That's interesting Kate. I have a will where a man describes one son as 'natural son' and the other as 'son'. I don't know when either of them were born though!

[Olde Crone]

I have also seen

"The children of our joint and several bodies" which I thought was rather sweet, lol!

I think in the context of baptism registers, natural would mean illegitimate, lawful would mean legitimate.

In the context of Wills etc, yes, I can see that "natural and lawful" would describe a child born of the marriage, as opposed to an adopted child.

OC

[Mary from Italy]

I do have a will (English) where a child who was definitely illegitimate is called "my natural son".

[Olde Crone]

Yes, so have I Mary

I think it hinges on "natural AND lawful" as a phrase meaning "my child who is not adopted and who is born within marriage" rather than "my natural son" which I would always take to mean illegitimate.

OC