View Full Version : trying to link 2 families between 1853-1878
hi all, cant get anything after 1851
am trying to find a maria corcoran or cochrane, married 14th jan 1878 to squire jones - father thomas cochrane, stonemason, born in woolton, liverpool, age 23, marriage in prescot
have got the family in the census but would like a birth for either maria or father thomas, many thanks for your time
i have 1881, 22 appleton village , widnes, squire jones, 26, chemical labourer born leeds, maria jones/corcoran, 25, born woolton, martha elizabeth jones,2 born widnes, thomas jones, 11 months born widnes
have just had a look on family search and found maria corcoran
28 feb 1853
woolton
father - thos corcoran
mother - mary murphy corcoran, could this be her
From the IGI, there are two sisters for Maria Corcoran:
Johanna Corcoran
Christening: 15 JUL 1855 St Mary Woolton, Liverpool, Lancashire
Anna Corcoran
Christening: 18 APR 1849 St Mary Woolton, Liverpool, Lancashire
tried a marriage and got liverpool 20 sept 1846 thomas corkoran - mary murphy, born hibernia ireland, father joannis murphy,
father is thoma corkoran for the other one
what i really need is to find this family after 1851 and with thomas jones as stonemason, any help or pointers in the right direction would be really welcome, i feel hopeful it is this family but need more proof to be really sure, many thanks to those who devote their time to reply, really appreciated
Name: Mary Corcoran
Year of Registration: 1853
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Prescot
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 378
Name: Jane Corcoran
Year of Registration: 1855
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Prescot
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 409
(there's another Mary on the same page as Jane)
Name: Ann Corcoran
Year of Registration: 1849
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Prescot
County: Lancashire
Volume: 20
Page: 891
I cannot see the 1850 marriage
(20 sept 1846 thomas corkoran - mary murphy, born hibernia ireland, father joannis murphy,)
on free bmd.
where did you find it?
mary murphy, born hibernia ireland
You realise Hibernia just means Ireland? Thomas and Mary were both b in Ireland according to the 1851 census.
I cannot see the 1850 marriage
(20 sept 1846 thomas corkoran - mary murphy, born hibernia ireland, father joannis murphy,)
on free bmd.
where did you find it?
It;s this one Jess:
Marriages Sep 1846
Corkran Thomas Prescot 20 851
Haley Mary Prescot 20 851
Merryman Hugh Prescot 20 851
Murphey Mary Prescot 20 851
Bidston, you should have been getting a birth cert for one of the girls before getting the marriage cert, to confirm mmn!!
garstonite
23-02-10, 07:35
Good morning....just to let you know that Woolton adjoins Garston and I know a lot about Woolton / Much Woolton / Little Woolton...other names it was known as prior to becoming Woolton...St Marys church is where my ancestors were christened and you should know that they very often transcribed names on certs in the Latin form....ie as you have said ..Joannis for John ..Maria for Mary etc....
Prescot was the reg office for Woolton but is a good 10 miles away.
Woolton has a quarry and it was this quarry that supplied all the sandstone for the Liverpool Anglican Cathedral which took a hundred years to build...so hence the stonemason connection and Widnes is about 5 miles from Woolton and is a massive supplier of Chemicals in England....
strange that the marriage of Squire Jones and Maria Corcoran isn`t on Lancashire BMD in 1878.....where did you get the info for the 14th January 1878 marriage in St Marys ....have you got the certificate ?
the 1846 marriage is there
CORKRAN** Thomas Murphy Mary Prescot register office or registrar attended Prescot R/4/41
** see explanation at the end of the page .....????
any idea what this may be Merry ???......
..............allan:confused:
kiterunner
23-02-10, 08:48
It's because there is an alternative spelling of his name. There is another thread on here about this family, just off to find it...
kiterunner
23-02-10, 08:49
Here we are:
http://genealogistsforum.co.uk/Forum/showthread.php?t=3234
kiterunner
23-02-10, 08:49
strange that the marriage of Squire Jones and Maria Corcoran isn`t on Lancashire BMD in 1878.....where did you get the info for the 14th January 1878 marriage in St Marys ....have you got the certificate ?
Lancashire BMD isn't complete yet, not anywhere near.
thanks guys, i didn't know hibernia meant ireland, , no wonder i can't find it, yes, i have the certificate for squire jones and maria corcoran, am wary of getting one of the childrens certificates as i thought i found the family in 1851 only to realise in 1861 they were the same group but thomas is a sailor, which is wrong and still only ann in the family, maybe an ann and an anna born in 1849,
the main aim was to find them on a census before maria's marriage in 1878 and to link the 2 families together to confirm
there are 2 ann's, one corcoran and one corceran, i found the corceran on the census which is not mine but can't see the corcoran which probably is
there are 2 ann's, one corcoran and one corceran, i found the corceran on the census which is not mine but can't see the corcoran which probably is
You don't mean the 'two' birth registrations in 1849 on FreeBMD do you?
They are both the same entry!!! Just that two transcribers have entered slightly different details. You should ALWAYS view the original GRO index page before ordering any cert from the GRO in case the page/volume number (or any other detail) has been mistranscribed. If you view through FreeBMD and the page is not clear try Ancestry's copies as they are often better.
And why do you say the Ann you have found on the census isn't yours? I thought that was the census where you had found Thomas and Mary with Ann already? (I realise you haven't fully confirmed that family is yours yet, because they haven't been traced in 1861/71)
hi merry, there are 2 entries on ancestry, the census entry i found in 1851 only had ann which is correct but in 1861 the other 2 children have arrived but it is still only the same 3 in the family and with father as sailor, so am sure its not them
Now I'm confused. Why did you want the birth registrations for the three children mentioned in the first post if they are not yours?
Can you give me the 1861 census ref please?
Did you notice that when Thomas C was a labourer in 1851 there were stone masons living all around him. He may have been a stonemasons labourer!
kiterunner
23-02-10, 11:53
I'm confused that you say the other two children were with the family in 1861, because I thought Jane (aka Johanna) who was born in 1855 died in 1859. I was just going to suggest you get her death certificate to see what it says for address and if it gives her father's occupation. But will be interested to see the 1861 entry that you have found.
Sorry, rereading your post maybe you are saying the other two children should be there but aren't. Well, Jane had died and it could be that Maria / Mary jr is with relatives.
hi merry, i think the 3 children are mine but the ann i found later is not the same anna i think is mine, if you check ancestry there are definitely 2 ann's in 1849 both for the april period but the one that shows up in the census only has ann and no maria or johanna
i found the family of 3 on the ancestry site for 1861
hi merry, there are 2 entries on ancestry, the census entry i found in 1851 only had ann which is correct but in 1861 the other 2 children have arrived but it is still only the same 3 in the family and with father as sailor, so am sure its not them
When you say the other two children had arrived, did you mean Ann was still there or not? I think I have just found her living as a servant, away from her family, aged 12.
kiterunner
23-02-10, 11:56
Bidston, can you give us some more details of the 1861 family, please? Such as exactly how their names are spelt on the ancestry transcription and what it says for their ages, so we can look at the entry? Thanks.
hi merry, i think the 3 children are mine but the ann i found later is not the same anna i think is mine, if you check ancestry there are definitely 2 ann's in 1849 both for the april period but the one that shows up in the census only has ann and no maria or johanna
No there isn't. They are two transcriptions for the same GRO entry, if you are refering to the GRO index entries.
i found the family of 3 on the ancestry site for 1861
I don't understand why you call them a family of three if you are also saying Ann is not with the others??????????? I have found Ann alone, but not Mary or Jane.
Can I have the 1861 ref please, or at least where they were plus spellings and ages etc as I can't find them!
hi guys, can't find the blasted thing now, know for sure i found the family in 1861 and was disappointed to see the same 3 people, no maria and no jane ( forget she died) even more disappointed to see thomas was now a flipping sailor, no quarry work for him, did find an ann corkran in 1861 age 12 in woolton at the home of john tuohy as a servant, so there are 2, one with mum and dad and one poor sole a 12 year old servant
Oh, the same three people means mum, dad and Ann??
And then there's 'another' Ann as a servant?
excuse my poor english but i mean by arrived that the children were born but not with the family of mum dad and ann in 1861
the 2 ann's are on ancestry
hi guys, can't find the blasted thing now, know for sure i found the family in 1861 and was disappointed to see the same 3 people, no maria and no jane ( forget she died) even more disappointed to see thomas was now a flipping sailor, no quarry work for him, did find an ann corkran in 1861 age 12 in woolton at the home of john tuohy as a servant, so there are 2, one with mum and dad and one poor sole a 12 year old servant
Often girls got listed twice on the census if they were servants in a house near their home, so you can't say it isn't the same person!
And there's only the one birth reg of course. Did you look at the index page to see what I meant?
ann is a servant for an irishman in woolton called john tuohy
ann born much woolton is now in something place, i can't read the name, in little woolton as general servant age 12
I've just done a search of the 1861 on FMP as you can enter occupations there too. Guess what? No Thomas Corcoran (or soundex on it etc) is recorded as a sailor.
Might it have been 1871? Didn't you write anything down????
the 2 ann's are on ancestry
Please, please can you tell me where on Ancestry you can see these two Anns?
i will continue to look for the 1861 entry i found, i think i was trying different variations on the surname or christian names and up it popped, i was so disappointed as i knew it was them but the same group as 1851 only 10 years older and thomas now a blooming sailor, i will try and go through the same process and post it if i find it again, thanks all
i went to ancestry, clicked on search, clicked on births, deaths etc, typed in ann corcoran, birth 1849 EXACT , and when the page loads the first one is ann corcoran and the eighth one is ann corceran
ann born much woolton is now in something place, i can't read the name, in little woolton as general servant age 12
Thats the one I'm looking at. The address is York Place.
I can't find either of the parents, a repeat of Ann with her parents, or sister Mary/Maria on that census. No Thomas' recorded as sailor either.
i went to ancestry, clicked on search, clicked on births, deaths etc, typed in ann corcoran, birth 1849 EXACT , and when the page loads the first one is ann corcoran and the eighth one is ann corceran
Thanks, I'll do the same.......
So the two your saw were these?
Name: Ann Corcoran
Year of Registration: 1849
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Prescot
County: Lancashire
Volume: 20
Page: 891
and:
Name: Ann Corceran
Year of Registration: 1849
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Prescot
County: Lancashire
Volume: 20
Page: 891
Both the same district, same year and quarter, same volume and page number, but different spellings?
what a prat, it was 1871, thomas is a seaman and ann is still 15, apologies everyone, dont know why i was on 1871, me ed is battered now, have to go soak it in water , perhaps this lot are mine but where were they in 1861 with the 2 girls, sorry
what a prat, it was 1871, thomas is a seaman and ann is still 15, apologies everyone, dont know why i was on 1871, me ed is battered now, have to go soak it in water , perhaps this lot are mine but where were they in 1861 with the 2 girls, sorry
But that Ann is too young and is born in London??????
hi merry, yes, because i thought i found a family without maria, i thought it was the corceran mob, would it be entered twice, loads of corcorans in woolton at that time
I think you were straw clutching!
Please could you answer my Q in post #35.
got to go now, am in an internet cafe and even the bloke in here says i am giving him a headache as well, will sign in again later, thanks for putting me straight, that's why i came on this forum because you guys have such expertise
yes merry, that's the 2 entries i saw
that's why i came on this forum because you guys have such expertise
I also have high bloodpressure, so when you get back, please could you reply to my question.
yes merry, that's the 2 entries i saw
Ta!!
They are the same entry. You need to view the GRO actual page (the handwritten one) and you will see instantly.
*goes for a lie down*
In 1871 there's a Mary Corcoran (spelled Mary Corconan) b 1856 in Much Woolton who is a servant to a household called Burrows. I thought she was yours, but I now realise there are two Mary Corcorans a couple of years apart in age and this one is very likely to be the daughter of Martin and Catherine Corcoran who she is with in 1861.
It's likely she is the Mary who was registered at the same time as your Jane was in 1855 Q3 (see my very first reply on this thread). That could just be a fluke or it could mean that the two Mrs Corcoran's (or whoever registered the births) visited the registrar together, and if they did that might also be a fluke or might mean they were friends/neighbours, or it could be they were related!
Apologies if this is covered in your other thread about the same family.
kiterunner
23-02-10, 15:04
I think if I were you, my next step would be to get the death certificate for Jane Corcoran who died Jan-Mar 1859 Prescot district, volume 8b, page 365, as this is probably the daughter of Thomas and Mary and if so then her death cert should give you the address where they were living in 1859, and may give you some other info such as father's occupation.
thanks kiterunner, sounds like a good idea, any address would be a help. i wondered if both parents were irish might they have gone back to ireland for a while, then maria reappeared when she was old enough
Margaret in Burton
23-02-10, 15:46
Bidston
Can you answer Merry's question before she goes doolally.:rolleyes::eek::D:D
kiterunner
23-02-10, 15:49
I thought they might have gone back to Ireland as well.
sorry marg, thought i answered it, no 35 yes, that's the 2 entries i got on ancestry, yes
kiterunner
23-02-10, 16:02
Yes, you posted your answer to the question at the very same time that Merry posted asking for an answer! Her reply to your answer is in post number 43.
o.k. got it, if i order that certificate all becomes clear, ta very much, looking through ancestry now to see if i can see thomas cochrame after the 1878 wedding as it did not say deceased on the certificate
Margaret in Burton
23-02-10, 16:35
Don't forget when you are looking for something and have the exact ticked it doesn't allow for mistranscriptions.
Try using wild cards. Ancestry makes you have at least three letters and then *
kiterunner
23-02-10, 16:47
Margaret, they've changed the wildcard rules now so you don't have to have 3 letters before it.
Margaret in Burton
23-02-10, 17:27
Margaret, they've changed the wildcard rules now so you don't have to have 3 letters before it.
Really!!!
what's the minimum now then?
You don't need to put any letters in front Marg. I think you are only restricted to having one end of the word, so you could put *ison and get Harrison or 100 other surnames. You just can't put a * on the end with only two letters in front. Best thing is to just try and see.
I keep forgetting - I've used Ancestry for so long it's difficult to change the way you search!
Here's what Ancestry says about Exact Searching:
When searching for exact matches only, you can use wildcard searching. Wildcards are special symbols (the asterisk "*" and the question mark "?") which are used in searching to represent some number of unknown letters in a word. Wildcards can be effective search tools if you are searching for words or names with alternate spellings:
An asterisk "*" represents zero or more characters (e.g., a search for "john*" might return "john, johnson, johnsen, johnathon, johns", etc.).
•Any use of the asterisk requires at least two non-wildcard characters (you cannot search for "S*", but could use "S*h").
•A single character is represented by question mark "?" (e.g., "Sm?th" equals both "Smith" and Smyth").
Margaret in Burton
23-02-10, 18:32
I must remember that. It was so frustrating sometimes.
sounds a bit complicated, when i don't tick exact i usually get all the variations on the name anyway, what is annoying is when you type thomas and tick exact you still get every tom dick and harry come up anyway, same with the dates, you type 1850 plus or minus 10 years and still get entries way out of your interest
your gonna love this , had a try using the question mark in the middle of thomas, got one result, FERNANDO PEG-LEG COCKERHAM, private member story, I'll bet, love it
hi merry, interested in the mary corconan you found, on the marriage certificate maria is aged 23 in 1878 , that would put her birth nearer 1855, yes
sounds a bit complicated, when i don't tick exact i usually get all the variations on the name anyway, what is annoying is when you type thomas and tick exact you still get every tom dick and harry come up anyway, same with the dates, you type 1850 plus or minus 10 years and still get entries way out of your interest
This is why a lot of us always use Exact Search. You know exactly what you have asked to see and you are not in the hands of Ancestry deciding which entries will get priority in the results list.
Margaret in Burton
24-02-10, 08:50
Yes, use exact search but use wildcards.
have a death for maria jones - july 22 1925 west derby, age 72
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