View Full Version : Patients and Inmates ~ what's the difference ?
Today, on the 1911 census, I found the husband and the 2 adult offspring of a gt gt aunt in institutions (gt gt aunt was OK, living in 2 rooms in Fulham and working as a Dressmaker).
They are in different institutions but all described as 'inmates'.
One is in 'The Epileptic Colony', Epsom, Surrey and trawling back through the images, the first couple of pages have the occupants listed as 'patients'.
Can anyone tell me what the difference might have been ?
I wouldn't have thought there was any difference Rachel, but someone else may know for sure. Just a guess.
If anyone with access to 1911 would like a look, click on this
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/CensusHouseholdSearchServlet?uir=9474c1644d28bff2f f1182d85c562f0e&lineNo=27&lineNoSuffix=0&UIRStamp=e6977de47984f9ae96de603eaed6256feea0b491d b03610a58ec0160d6411bc75e5f8418f19b5123&pagetype=9&_zga_s=1
I think it's a bit like the differences between idiots, lunatics and imbeciles on the census - there was an official difference, but that wouldn't have to be the same as what people took the words to mean.
I would think an inmate was someone in an institution because they were either a permanent resident because of infirmity or illness or temporary because of temporary illness or because of financial destitution. An inmate might also be in a prison. In any case, they were probably there because someone else decided they should be.
A patient sounds like someone paying their own way for the care received be it temporary or permanent. They would also be able to discharge themselves from the place giving them care.
I would guess there's a huge cross over in the use of these terms.
Margaret in Burton
16-02-10, 14:33
That just gives me an error message, don't think links from the 1911 work.
What are the details and I'll take a look.
Well put Merry. Yes hadn't thought of it that way.
Thank you Merry and Stella ~ it's certainly an interesting one
That just gives me an error message, don't think links from the 1911 work.
What are the details and I'll take a look.
OK Marg
Dora Folwell ~ born 1888 (+/-1) in Battersea, London
she's in Epsom, Surrey
ref RG14PN2965 RD31 SD21 SN9999
Image 10 has 'Patients'
Images 1 to 10 list them as 'Patients' and their occupations are similar to the ones of the 'Inmates'
Ooooooo ~ could it be that the 'Patients' are all male ?
*begins to tut and stamp foot*
Yikes ~ image 17 has
Head Attendant on Male Lunatics
There used to be a large psychiatric hospital in Epsom called 'West Park' hospital. Also in Epsom was the Ewell Epileptic Colony - just Googled it.
There used to be a large psychiatric hospital in Epsom called 'West Park' hospital. Also in Epsom was the Ewell Epileptic Colony - just Googled it.
Can't find an address anywhere :(
It says London County Council The Epileptic Colony
and the Ecc Parish is Epsom Common, Christ Church and on the page 'Instruction To The Enumerator' it has 'Civil Parish or Parishes'
Epsom and Ewell are both hand written but Ewell is crossed out ~ don't know if I'm allowed to put part of the image on here ?
Can pm or email you
There is an indication of where records are held here
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/hospitalrecords/details.asp?id=104&hospital=epileptic&town=&searchdatabase.x=27&searchdatabase.y=19
(Assuming it was Ewell Epileptic Colony in Hook Rd, Epsom)
There is an indication of where records are held here
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/hospitalrecords/details.asp?id=104&hospital=epileptic&town=&searchdatabase.x=27&searchdatabase.y=19
(Assuming it was Ewell Epileptic Colony in Hook Rd, Epsom)
Thanks for that
Will send an email and see where it takes me :)
Langley Vale Sue
16-02-10, 17:56
Yes it was the Ewell Epileptic Colony in Hook Road, Epsom. Now known as St Ebba's. My Great Aunt was a patient there from about 1912 until about 1964. (Can't give you the exact dates as I'm not on my pc at the moment.)
Most of it has been sold off & demolished to make way for a new housing estate which is being built now. All the other 'Mental Hospitals' in Epsom have gone the same way now - I'm surprised St Ebba's held out for so long!
As far as I know, all the patients/inmates at St Ebba's were epileptic in varying degrees. My Great Aunt had her first fit just after she started menstruating and was committed then. Her fits were controlled, but as I understand from family members, she was not allowed out 'because she was a danger'. Whether to herself or to others I don't know. I know she wasn't even allowed out to attend her parents funerals in 1931 and in 1952. She was never spoken about in the family, and I didn't know she existed until just before she was released into the care of a nurse at St Ebba's where she had a room in her house. As far as I know she hadn't had a fit for many years and as she was post menopause she was considered fit to be released. Auntie Ethel worked in the laundry in St Ebba's and most of the inmates/patients had jobs in the hospital or grounds. After her release she travelled the world with all the money she had saved! She was a lovely, gentle lady and had about 10 years 'outside' (the last year in her own flat in sheltered accommodation close to where I lived at the time) before dying of cancer.
Some of the 'treatments/cures' inflicted on the patients were positively barbaric and Auntie wouldn't talk about them in any detail telling me I wouldn't want to know. I think the records are locked for 100 years, but whether that is from the committal date or release date I don't know.
Good luck with your hunting and I'd love to know how you get on.
Forgot to say the family lived in Putney, SW London when Auntie Ethel was committed - I don't know whether where in London you lived made a difference as to which hospital you were sent to.
Langley Vale Sue
16-02-10, 18:16
Just found this. It's a listing of the burials in Horton Cemetery and Dora is among the names.
http://www.epsomandewellhistoryexplorer.org.uk/HortonCemeteryBurialsF.shtml
The cemetery was derelict until fairly recently, when a group of local people decided that those buried there should not be forgotten and restoration began.
http://www.epsomandewellhistoryexplorer.org.uk/HortonCemetery.html
maggie_4_7
16-02-10, 18:27
So Dora died on 24th December 1914 aged 26. :( Very young.
Did you look for her death reg or were you trying to find what happened to her?
The cemetery was derelict until fairly recently, when a group of local people decided that those buried there should not be forgotten and restoration began.
http://www.epsomandewellhistoryexplorer.org.uk/HortonCemetery.html
Thats a very good piece about the reason Epsom seem to have a high number of Asylums. Very interesting - I've always wondered.
Oh Sue
WOW ~ Dora's burial ~ that's fantastic
Thank you so much :D I found her death on FreeBMD earlier, reg in Epsom and would never have associated it with her before ~ a bit of a trek from Fulham, where her parents lived.
It looks as if St Ebbas and Colony were different places
What an awful waste of life for your Gt aunt but at least she had some years of normality. I do wonder if some of the treatment was the cause of death for many of them
Langley Vale Sue
16-02-10, 18:34
So Dora died on 24th December 1914 aged 26. :( Very young.
Did you look for her death reg or were you trying to find what happened to her?
Thats a very good peice about the reason Epsom seem to have a high number of Asylums. Very interesting - I've always wondered.
I pass the cemetery most days when going to my son's or daughters' houses and it looks so sad and neglected. It is almost opposite St Ebba's hospital site. I knew that the local history society had transcribed some records so I looked up Dora's name out of curiosity.
Langley Vale Sue
16-02-10, 18:38
Rachel
Ewell Epileptic Colony was renamed as St Ebba's so I think they are one and the same place.
So Dora died on 24th December 1914 aged 26. :( Very young.
Did you look for her death reg or were you trying to find what happened to her?
Hiya
I was actually doing a bit of an idle search on FMP after an email from my NZ cousin (we share gt gt grandparents) and have spent the past few years bashing our branches into shape, swapping info and doing the fine-tuning !
Gt gt aunt Rebecca was easy to find in 1911 and then it sort of took off :D
Sue ~ it definitely says Epsom and not Ewell
Will PM you with the relevant bit of image as I don't know if it's OK to put it on the website
A fascinating day and I've not made a start on anything I had planned ! :(
maggie_4_7
16-02-10, 18:45
Hiya
I was actually doing a bit of an idle search on FMP after an email from my NZ cousin (we share gt gt grandparents) and have spent the past few years bashing our branches into shape, swapping info and doing the fine-tuning !
Gt gt aunt Rebecca was easy to find in 1911 and then it sort of took off :D
Sue ~ it definitely says Epsom and not Ewell
Will PM you with the relevant bit of image as I don't know if it's OK to put it on the website
A fascinating day and I've not made a start on anything I had planned ! :(
Oh but isn't it nice when you get to the bottom of something though :)
Oh but isn't it nice when you get to the bottom of something though :)
FANTASTIC !!!!!!! :D I never imagined the 1911 census would unearth so much
Now, if only I could find the other 2 gt gt aunts ........
Langley Vale Sue
16-02-10, 19:22
I agree the image has Ewell crossed out. The actual address of St Ebba's is Hook Road, Epsom, but Ewell is only about 500 yards from the perimeter of the grounds, hence Ewell Epileptic Colony. The ennumerator may well have been a local person and they tend to be very territorial! Epsom is Epsom and Ewell is Ewell. LOL
From memory, back then the local authority was Epsom Council and Ewell was added later. Without looking in my local history books I can't be sure of the dates or exact name the local authority went under.
Each 'mental' hospital was a community in it's own right and almost self sufficient. Each had a farm where inmates worked the land and tended the animals and a laundry and bakery and kitchens. There was a railway line which ran into the hospital grounds from the local station and even now, with huge housing estates built on each of the former hospital sites, traces of the railway can still be seen, along with some buildings which have listed status.
Olde Crone
16-02-10, 19:59
Back to the original question - surely the difference between "patient" and "inmate" would be (in this context) that a patient was bedbound, ill, or suffering from some condition which required active nursing care whereas an inmate was just someone who lived there and was in normal active health apart from epilepsy.
Perhaps an inmate would be expected to work, a patient wouldn't.
I used to live a few hundred yards from Friern Barnet Hospital which was the largest North London mental hospital. This was actually known by several names, one of which was "the colony". The Colony was an area of the hospital set aside for epileptics and covered many acres. Another area was known as the Farm and again occupied many acres.
As Sue said, these hospitals were the size of towns and Friern housed literally thousands of patients, who spent their whole lives there.
All gone now and sold off for executive housing. Although these hospitals could be terrible places for those kept in locked wards, for others they were a place of safety and sanctuary in a world which had no time for those afflicted by mental problems.
OC
Uncle John
16-02-10, 20:40
Or a place where sanctimonious relatives got bothersome relatives shut away (e.g. Bill Oddie's mother at Napsbury (I think), south of St. Albans. That was another place with its own railway siding.
Or a place where sanctimonious relatives got bothersome relatives shut away (e.g. Bill Oddie's mother at Napsbury (I think), south of St. Albans. That was another place with its own railway siding.
Blimey ~ it's all very well having a healthy imagination but I'm getting visions of Auschwitz :(
OH has been telling me about a few people he's met who had ECTs and how appalling they found it
Olde Crone
16-02-10, 22:12
I have a dim memory, which may NOT be correct, that the station which served Friern Barnet (New Southgate Station) had a private entrance which led to a track through the grounds of the hospital.
At the time the hospital was built, there would have been more people living in it than were living in the surrounding area, so it would make sense to have a railway station right on its doorstep.
OC
Uncle John
17-02-10, 10:16
The siding to Napsbury Hospital still existed when I started commuting from Luton to London (1967) and the last traces only disappeared when the main line was electrified c. 1980.
OC many thanks for your posts. I'm beginning to get an idea of what institution life may have been like in the early 1900s.
Some thoughts make me shudder but then, looking at the photos on Sue's thread
http://www.epsomandewellhistoryexplo...nCemetery.html
the buildings and setting look almost pleasant ~ I guess that would have been good PR anyway !
This has been quite amazing.
Until now, the name Dora was just that, a name on a page and previous searches for a marriage or a death produced nothing sensible but now here she is, a real person with a life albeit tragic.
The whole family has come to life for me ~ oh dear poor gt gt Aunt Rebecca.
1911 finds her husband in the workhouse, their only son in another institution (Church Army Labour House), their only daughter in Epsom ~ so far away from Fulham, where they lived, that I wonder how often anybody could visit. Also there had been another child ~ 3 born and 2 still living ~ another one for me to investigate.
Thank you all so much :)
It may be of interest
This is Rebecca's mother (Dora's grandmother)
http://genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=3281
anne fraser
17-02-10, 13:14
I used to work for an NHS trust which had taken over a couple of Colonies. I think originally they were meant to be self funding and often used as a dumping ground for people with mental and physical disabilities as well as conditions like epilepsy. Our local colony had its own school and church as well as workshops and a farm. Often they were started by local philanthropists but conditions often worsened as numbers grew. Middleclass families often sent delinquent childen there rather than prison to avoid the stigma.
I once worked with an old lady who was epileptic and had been sent to a local colony after becomming pregnant age 17. Age seventy she was still in care.
Olde Crone
17-02-10, 16:06
There was one near where I lived as a child, a Colony for epileptics, but as Anne says, it was used as a dumping ground for anyone who was considered a nuisance by anyone with any clout.
By one of those odd coincidences, I discovered that my present neighbour had a brother who lived there all his life and is buried there. (We live 500 miles away from the place now). He had cerebral palsy. His parents were advised to put him in the home by their Doctor and my neighbour said "You didn't argue with authority in those days, but my mother always regretted it".
OC
News .....
Have received email from the Surrey Hist Centre
Dora was admitted to St Ebba's Hospital, Epsom on 9th Nov 1910 ~ died 20th Dec 1914 and there was a Post Mortem
Will fill in form and see if they'll let me have more info :)
maggie_4_7
21-02-10, 10:08
That was quick. Perhaps you'll be able to find out why she was admitted.
She must have died suddenly if there was Post Mortem.
Yes, I was expecting a lengthy wait ~ they said up to 20 working days !
I do wonder if Post Mortems were just part of the routine :confused:
Joan of Archives
21-02-10, 12:08
Some of the 'treatments/cures' inflicted on the patients were positively barbaric and Auntie wouldn't talk about them in any detail telling me I wouldn't want to know. I think the records are locked for 100 years, but whether that is from the committal date or release date I don't know.
Just to say I have seen my great grandmother's records, she died in 1933 in a hospital in Cambridge, she was admitted after suffering psychosis & lived there for 20 years & the records made very harrowing reading, it was upsetting to read what she was imagining regarding hearing voices etc, & to think she lived all those years in an institution. You may be able to get access to the records if you contact the Records Office where the records may be held, they give you the NHS Trust's details that would allow you access, I just wrote them a letter stating my relationship to her & they then sent me a letter which gave me access to them at Cambs R.O.
Hoorah !
The Post person cometh :)
I have been given permission to view St Ebba's records for Dora :)
Wow Rachel, great news! I hope I am as successful with my request for my great aunt's records.
Margaret in Burton
06-03-10, 14:04
Well done Rachel
Wow Rachel, great news! I hope I am as successful with my request for my great aunt's records.
Well done Rachel
:D:D:D Fank yoo bofe
OH will have to take another day off, so doubt that we'll be going there this month
I should think you'll be successful Stella, it does sound as if you could be next of kin
Hope so Rachel. I am eagerly awaiting a reply, but was told it could take about 30 days.
hi all, just thought i might explain a little about these institutions, i started my training as a nurse for the mentally handicapped in 1971, part of the training is the history of the profession, as i remember there were serious concerns in early victorian times that if people with low intelligence, for whatever reason, were allowed to breed without control that the level of intelligence for the whole of england would go down, and in a very short time the populace would be little more than imbeciles
the compassionate way to deal with this threat was to build institutions which were self sufficient in every way, almost like mini cities, where the said threat could be contained and not allowed to mix with the general population and infect them
this was championed by many so called responsible leaders of society, one being winston churchill, the experts managed to strike fear in the powers that be so much so, that a solution had to be found, still getting the same nonsense today with weapons of mass destruction and the like
the terms idiot, imbecile and feeble minded were all medical terms but came into general usage as slang and so are constantly changed, on my certificate it says :registered nurse in mental sub normality: hope this helps clear the picture, i don't know a qualified answer to the difference between inmate and patient, maybe one was voluntary
many young girls who worked as maids in large houses and who were made pregnant by the master were classified as morally defective and suffered the same fate, i worked with a few older ladies who were locked up most of their lives and had no problems either physically or mentally, very sad, don't presume that some young lady who spent her life in an institution was necessarily suffering from some sort of mental disorder
Thank you for that information Bidston. I found it very interesting, but also very sad. Thank goodness times have changed for the better.:)
This is very interesting and sad. My son (5yo) has just been diagnosed with epilespy and to think he would be locked up because of it is dreadful.
Rachel have you seen the records yet and if so, what did they say?
This is very interesting and sad. My son (5yo) has just been diagnosed with epilespy and to think he would be locked up because of it is dreadful.
Having googled some of the medical terms, I do wonder if she was Schizophrenic. Presumably, her condition would be controllable nowadays with the use of medication and not ? whatever dreadful solutions they favoured in the early part of the century.
Sympathy and hugs for you and son :)
Mum's baby bro (other side of the family) has suffered with petit mal since childhood ~ possibly brought on by countless eye operations and usually under control with simple meds. I really should ask him about it and what they treated him with in his early years (born 1930s) Phenobarbitone springs to mind :(
rachelagourakis
15-09-10, 11:47
My granny died in a geriactric ward at one of the old asylums at Epsom, most of them have been demolised now and they're building new houses on the sites!
Langley Vale Sue
15-09-10, 11:55
My great aunt (who was in St Ebba's at Epsom/Ewell for 40+ years) took Phenobarbitone to control her epilepsy, even after her release. I remember my grandmother (her younger sister) saying she was locked up because they thought she was 'possessed by the Devil' when her fits started at 13 years old.
I'm reading this through and gradually adding pieces to Dora's ring binder.
I wonder if Sue's gt aunt and Dora knew each other ..........
anne fraser
12-10-10, 21:21
It is sad. I know one local institution now closed started as a home for the inebriated which sounds quite jolly but then looked after the morally impaired. The chap who founded it was also chaplain to the local prison and it seemed to have been a way of keeping middle class youngsters out of prison if the parents could afford to pay.
In practice "colonists" were often girls who had illegitamate babies, homosexual boys or petty thieves. When the NHS was formed it took over the colony and it became a hospital and took patients with physical and mental disabilities. Originally it was meant to be a home for life with its own farm, school and workshops even a chapel and graveyard.
The motives of the original people who founded these places ranged from greed to idealism.
Sympathy and hugs for you and son :)
Mum's baby bro (other side of the family) has suffered with petit mal since childhood ~ possibly brought on by countless eye operations and usually under control with simple meds. I really should ask him about it and what they treated him with in his early years (born 1930s) Phenobarbitone springs to mind :(
Thanks. It's a settled a bit at the moment. Hopefully the meds are at the right level.
Find out about your uncle. OH's uncle had it and we've been asked about him nearly everytime we see a doctor. At least you'll know if anything happens in the future.
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