maria corcoran

[bidston]

hello ladies, its me again, that bloke descended from martha whatsit, this time am having trouble with squire jones wife maria corcoran

have the marriage certificate no problem, the above married 14 jan 1878
squire jones 22 - father, thomas jones blacksmith
maria corcoran 23 - father thomas cochrane stonemason

now have been on ancestry like a man possessed, trying to find maria prior to 1878, the only luck i have had is a family back in 1851 who look hopeful but can find nothing in between to confirm, no sign of them in 1861 or 1871

what i have is maria corcoran 28 feb 1853 much woolton, which ties in with her details after she is married to squire jones, also have anna corcoran 15 april 1849 much woolton and johanna corcoran 3 july 1855

all have parents as thomas corcoran 1824 born ireland and mary corcoran 1826 born ireland at rose street much woolton 1851 with anna now 2 years

there is even a possible marriage 20 sept 1846 at liverpool, but finding them in between in order to confirm has me demented, you will note father spells his name cochrane on the marriage certificate

any ideas

[ElizabethHerts]

What county were they in?

[Merry]

I'm assuming the family you found in 1851 was Thomas Corcoren 27 labourer b Ireland, his wife Mary and dau Ann aged 2?

When you say:

what i have is maria corcoran 28 feb 1853 much woolton, which ties in with her details after she is married to squire jones, also have anna corcoran 15 april 1849 much woolton and johanna corcoran 3 july 1855



what do you mean by 'what I have is'? Are those details from birth certs? What is Thomas's occ on those? (if that's where the info came from)

[Merry]

Just read your post again and realised we are both refering to the same census, but are those dates you gave baptisms not births? It makes a difference as people didn't always get baptised where they were born so you might be looking in the wrong place on the census records.

[Margaret in Burton]

Just for reference, here are Squire and Maria in 1881.


http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7572&iid=LANRG11_3724_3729-0804&fn=Squire&ln=Jones&st=d&ssrc=&pid=9379017

[bidston]

thanks folks, all around much woolton, which is now just known as woolton, part of liverpool, had a large irish population in the old days

i only have suire jones marriage certificate, everything else is just what i have found

yes, it is the same family with thomas as labourer, cant understand where they might have gone

marriage is at prescot which is the district for woolton
all squire jones family are from those little villages in the same part of yorkshire, how did they meet i wonder

i have births as 3 july and baptism 15 july for johanna and 15 april and 18 april baptism for anna

found a ann corkran age 12 in 1861 as servant in woolton also, seen somewhere wife of thomas as mary murphy corcoran

[garstonite]

The Irish potato crop failure of 1845 had a massive Irish influx on Liverpool...(still affectionately known as the Capital of Ireland) so I would think that would explain Thomas coming to Liverpool.
Garston (nicknamed "Little Wicklow") and Woolton(which adjoins Garston) were very well populated with Irish immigrants mainly from the Wicklow area.
Woolton had a massive Sandstone Quarry which can still be seen and was the supply for the Anglican Liverpool Cathedral which took 100 years to build...so...plenty of work there for quarry workers and stonemasons.
As for the Jones connection to Woolton, could it have been anything to do with Blackwells Iron Foundry( 2 foundarys in Garston) which built and supplied Iron railway bridges for all over the world.
I know this isn`t helping with your name research, but you might get an insight into why they came to Liverpool and why they met..don`t forget that Liverpool was the busiest seaport in the world in the mid to late 1800`s....hope you get a better view now of how they met.......allan ( was Maria babtised in St Peters or St Marys ?)

[kiterunner]

You'd be best to get the birth certificate for one of Thomas and Mary's children to see what it says for Mary's maiden name before looking into Thomas and Mary's marriage. If the births were registered, that is! As you have the exact dates of birth it should be easy enough to make sure you get the right certificate.

Who were the witnesses at Squire and Maria's wedding?

[kiterunner]

Looking at the birth registrations on Lancashire BMD, I'm just wondering whether the names you have from the baptisms, Anna, Maria and Johanna, could be Latin versions of the names Ann, Mary and Jane? I know sometimes the names in the parish registers were written in Latin, especially Catholic ones. Only there are a few Anns, Janes and Marys in the birth registrations but I can't see Anna, Maria or Johanna.

[kiterunner]

Ah, having looked at the IGI entries, I'm sure that's what they've done, since the parents' names are given as Thoma and Maria on some of them. Also there is another Joanna, surname given as Corchoran, born 13 May 1851 and christened 15 May 1851, which matches up to a Jane Corcoran birth registration on Lancashire BMD.

It looks to me as though the IGI batch is one of those "girls only" ones, so there could be some boys we don't know about.

[bidston]

great ideas, thanks allan for the insight into old liverpool, it does help and would explain the possible appearance of thomas corcoran, i think maria was baptized in st peters,
i have another relation i am trying to find the wife of, all i know is she is mary from kilkenny, i looked at the common names of kilkenny to see if that could help and low and behold i find welsh, her husbands name, i presumed it meant from wales originally, and it does, but according to the irish site the welsh populated kilkenny from the 13th century and strange as it may seem, welsh is one of the most common names in kilkenny

i presumed they met in liverpool where he was born but maybe his family was irish and they met there, a bit of history does put a different perspective on it, cheers allan

hi kiterunner, i was thinking of getting a birth certificate for one of the girls but it does not help me connect them to the corcorans of 1878 and onwards, that's the problem, the witnesses at squire jones wedding were henry dugmore and eliza landess, eh, dugmore is good name for a quarry man, good thought about the Latin names, will search again, thanks as ever for such great input

[kiterunner]

So, there is a James Corcoran birth in 1847 in Much Woolton (on Lancashire BMD) and a James Corcoran death in Jul-Sep 1847 Prescot district on FreeBMD. Then Ann born 1849, then Jane born 1851, and a Jane Corcoran death Apr-Jun 1852, Mary born 1853, Jane born 1855, a Jane Corcoran death Jan-Mar 1859, Michael born 1858, Ann born 1861. But because mother's maiden name isn't given for these births on Lancashire BMD, and age at death isn't on the GRO index for those dates, and the deaths aren't on Lancashire BMD yet, these might not all be your family and the deaths might not be the same people as the births! Back to the censuses...

[kiterunner]

Okay, so that Michael born 1858 definitely isn't Thomas and Mary's son as I've found him on the 1861 census and his parents were Martin and Catherine. Also Ann 1861 belongs to them. Doesn't help much, though...

[bidston]

sorry allan, it was st mary's much woolton

[bidston]

it also has mother as mary murphy corcoran

[kiterunner]

I've been looking and looking at the censuses and getting nowhere, sorry.

[bidston]

just aside, in 1891 mary jones or maria is down as marion jones (corcoran)

[bidston]

thanks kiterunner, appreciate your efforts, so we might have a james as well although didn't survive

[garstonite]

Looking at the birth registrations on Lancashire BMD, I'm just wondering whether the names you have from the baptisms, Anna, Maria and Johanna, could be Latin versions of the names Ann, Mary and Jane? I know sometimes the names in the parish registers were written in Latin, especially Catholic ones. Only there are a few Anns, Janes and Marys in the birth registrations but I can't see Anna, Maria or Johanna.

That is a great thought Kiterunner....my 3 x g grandfather was born in Woolton and he is babtised as JOANNIS.....JOHN.....so maybe the minister was the old fashioned type and it was all in Latin.....allan

[garstonite]

A large family with the surname Welsh in Garston who are very good friends of mine...because of you Bidston I will have to go to the pub later and ask the eldest of the family if their roots are from Woolton....lol.....my money is that they were from Woolton for one simple reason...Garston property is a lot cheaper than Woolton.because of the endless supply of work in Woolton and people having money , the houses that they built were very very superior than Garstons....so it was easier to buy a house in Garston cos they were cheaper.
The good news is that the mum and dad of this family have not long died (about five years ) and they were late 80`s , so we might be in luck......
for the record there are 10 Welsh in Woolton in the phone book so they are still there.....allan

[bidston]

cheers allan, you never know, one of the martin welsh birth i looked up had joannis as father too, i thought it was swedish or something

[Margaret in Burton]

I have come across lots of early parish registers that are in Latin, I think it was quite common.

Take a look at this:

http://freereg.rootsweb.com/howto/latinnames.htm

[kiterunner]

This one (where Maria Corcoran and her sisters were baptised) isn't an early parish register, though, Margaret, it's a mid-19th century one, but I think the Roman Catholic churches carried on using Latin in their registers much later than the C of E ones.

[Margaret in Burton]

Sorry had forgotten they were RC.

Yes certainly. We went to our local RC church to search the registers and some from the early 20th century were still in Latin. In fact my MIL's baptism in 1926 was as well.

[bidston]

thanks marg, fantastic site, stopped me looking up Swedish names for a start