View Full Version : Great Aunt Sallie ... Nightmare!
Over a decade ago, I gave up searching for the birth and general info re my dad's scary aunt (Sallie Margaret).
I've had another go at it and am getting nowhere.
She was the youngest child, born, I assume, in Tallaght, Dublin c1913 (although I think she changed this to 1916).
Her mother was Rose Connor (nee Lahlor 1880, Dublin).
Rose's husband was John Connor (1871, Carlow).
The story is that Sallie's father was not John Connor and was either American or Canadian and he paid for her education. Where she was educated is unknown. Maybe abroad? Dunno.
Sallie often mentioned Uncle Jack and we assumed this was husband no.1.
Not true.
Uncle Jack was Colonel S John Channing Pearce (sp) and we don't know what the relationship was.
When Uncle Jack died, Sallie married his best friend, Patrick Wilmot Beresford Meredith Roe.
They lived in Colombo, Ceylon for many years, managing a tea plantation, until the Brits were kicked out and they moved back to England, eventually settling just outside Oxford.
I have a pic which looks like their wedding and I think it's dated 1949 but I have no idea which country it was in.
Looked at Irish stuff but she doesn't show up.
Any ideas where I try next please?
TIA
You need this site for her birth:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/
It's not working at the moment though. Is this the site you looked at when you said, "Looked at Irish stuff but she doesn't show up."? Did you find her siblings or her 'parents' marriage?
Yes I looked on that one today and a couple of others.
I already had her siblings and I have it that her dob was 10th Oct 1913 but I've no idea where I found that.
Sallie was not always reliable ! Lol.
Can't see Rose and John's marriage but my notes say that on 1911 census they were married for 13 years.
kiterunner
10-11-23, 18:31
The civil registration (England and Wales) death index has Sallie Margaret Roe death registered Mar 1991 Oxford, date of birth 10 Oct 1913.
You were lucky to get on that site today!! It's not been available for most people for about three days. Are you saying there is no birth registration for her?
Was her mother's maiden name spelled Lahlor on the birth records for all her siblings?
kiterunner
10-11-23, 18:32
On a passenger list from Liverpool to Rangoon dated 10 Sep 1954, she is Mrs Sallie Rita Margaret Roe age 38.
kiterunner
10-11-23, 18:34
And on a passenger list returning to the UK in 1959, her date of birth is 10 Oct 1916.
Ah
Thank you Kate. I have a vague recollection of seeing her name on a passenger list but wasn't sure if it was her, because of the name Rita.
I lost some of my notes last December when my house was flooded.
Will begin again tomorrow.
kiterunner
10-11-23, 18:37
I think we will have to wait till the Irish Civil Records site is fixed, whenever that is.
Is this the marriage?
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/61039/images/08972_09_0071?backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=ff17a1ff74023ae7b4e1d30ec3532c8c&pId=10155130
You were lucky to get on that site today!! It's not been available for most people for about three days. Are you saying there is no birth registration for her?
Was her mother's maiden name spelled Lahlor on the birth records for all her siblings?
I did get on the site but nothing was working. Assumed it was me being dopey!
The spelling Lahlor could very well be a bit iffy.
I shall have to see about ordering my grandmother's birth cert.
Tomorrow ........
Is this the marriage?
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/61039/images/08972_09_0071?backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=ff17a1ff74023ae7b4e1d30ec3532c8c&pId=10155130
Ooooo
That looks like it:)
I'm assuming you did look for a Sarah as well as Sallie.
I'm assuming you did look for a Sarah as well as Sallie.
Yes
At the moment, I'm considering everything. :d
Anstey Nomad
12-11-23, 09:52
For the record, Patrick W B M Roe was born in Portsmouth District MQ 1906 (mmn Leacock) and died on 22 April 1991 in Headington, Oxon. There's no marriage coming up in England and Wales. Could it have been in Sri Lanka?
Anstey Nomad
12-11-23, 09:59
The civil registration (England and Wales) death index has Sallie Margaret Roe death registered Mar 1991 Oxford, date of birth 10 Oct 1913.
I can't find her in the Probate Calendar, could you?
For the record, Patrick W B M Roe was born in Portsmouth District MQ 1906 (mmn Leacock) and died on 22 April 1991 in Headington, Oxon. There's no marriage coming up in England and Wales. Could it have been in Sri Lanka?
Very possibly Sri Lanka.
Although, the photograph I have, which I assume is their wedding, has an elderly woman wearing a fur jacket!
Seemed a little odd.
Anstey Nomad
12-11-23, 11:57
I'm not getting any further, but it looks as if the Chaning-Pearces (with one n)are a well known Catholic family. Would that fit?
I'm not getting any further, but it looks as if the Chaning-Pearces (with one n)are a well known Catholic family. Would that fit?
Thanks for that.
I know nothing about them. Only that she referred to him as Jack, or Uncle Jack.
I assumed he was also involved in Ceylon Tea.
Lindula was mentioned a few times and they named one of their houses in the UK, Lindula.
Sallie told me it was a disgusting swear word!
:rolleyes:
Anstey Nomad
12-11-23, 12:37
Joseph Chaning Pearce died in Sri Lanka in 1949 ...
Joseph Chaning Pearce died in Sri Lanka in 1949 ...
Oooooer.
I can't find John anywhere now, although when I was searching years ago, there definitely was something about him AND in the early 1970, the widow of a Colonel SirJohn Channing Pearce was on Radio Four talking about her late husband.
I remember being surprised that it wasn't Aunt Sallie!!!
Might have been an entirely different bloke, of course.
kiterunner
12-11-23, 13:29
I can't find her in the Probate Calendar, could you?
Me neither.
Me neither.
Thank you all for looking.
Naughty Auntie. As difficult as ever:d
She was a real character ... very scary and rather grand (if you were a wee thing) but mum liked her a lot.
I was once on a bus with her and she burped out loud!!! It was shocking AND she pretended it was me!!!!!!!!! Outrageous.
Another time, when I was a tiny, she stayed with us and after she departed, mum found several pieces of dried up chewing gum stuck underneath a bookshelf next to her bed.
AI had this to say:
Colonel Sir John Chaning Pearce was honored in the 1939 New Year Honours by King George VI. He received a knighthood for his contributions and services. The honours were announced on 30 December 1938.
I have yet to be able to prove this info is correct!
AI had this to say:
I have yet to be able to prove this info is correct!
Ooooooooo
This is interesting!!!
Yes, but I don't see him on any of the lists around that year :(
Yes, but I don't see him on any of the lists around that year :(
*swear words*
I can't find him anywhere ;(
Now I've lost Sallie and Paddy's portrait photographs and I feel sick cos I've been sucking chocolate.
kiterunner
12-11-23, 14:49
AI had this to say:
I have yet to be able to prove this info is correct!
Wikipedia has the 1939 New Year Honours List and he is not included as far as I can see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1939_New_Year_Honours
Wikipedia has the 1939 New Year Honours List and he is not included as far as I can see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1939_New_Year_Honours
I had a look too
NOTHING!
kiterunner
12-11-23, 14:56
If you think Joseph could be Jack (or if you think Jack might be mentioned in Joseph's will), you could order a copy of his will.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1904/images/32858_625988_0733-00182?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=UMN113921&_phstart=successSource&pId=14040300
kiterunner
12-11-23, 15:01
Hmmm, on a 1949 passenger list, Mr Joseph Chaning Pearce age 77 has with him a Miss Sarah Rieta Pearce age 33, both from Flat I, Threehays House, George Street, Oxford, travelling to Colombo. That must be her, mustn't it? So I should think Jack was Joseph.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/2997/images/41039_b001637-00386?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=UMN113921&_phstart=successSource&pId=144160899
lol I ignored all the stuff I'd seen about Joseph, as I thought I was looking for a man with first initial S!!
If you think Joseph could be Jack (or if you think Jack might be mentioned in Joseph's will), you could order a copy of his will.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1904/images/32858_625988_0733-00182?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=UMN113921&_phstart=successSource&pId=14040300
Might be an idea:) although I never heard mention of a Joseph.
Thank you Kate
National Probate Calendar:
PEARCE Joseph Chaning of Flat 1 Threeways House Oxford died 20 October 1949 at The Nursing Home Hatton Ceylon Probate Oxford 8 July to The Midland Bank Executor and Trustee Company Limited. Effects £2228 7s 8d in England.
Getting a copy of this will might be useful.
National Probate Calendar:
Getting a copy of this will might be useful.
Yep
Will look tomorrow.
Ta all
Brain hurty
kiterunner
13-11-23, 09:04
Finally the Irish Civil Records site is working! Very easy to find her birth: Sarah Connor, date of birth 10 October 1913, Group Registration ID 1287842, district Dublin, sex female, MMN Lawlor. Looking at the image, birthplace is Coombe Hospital, no middle names, father John Connor of Tallaght, mother Rose Connor formerly Lawlor, father's occupation labourer, registered 16 Oct 1913 as part of a whole series of births registered by a hospital official. Here is a link to the PDF:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1913/01432/1587272.pdf
Finally the Irish Civil Records site is working! Very easy to find her birth: Sarah Connor, date of birth 10 October 1913, Group Registration ID 1287842, district Dublin, sex female, MMN Lawlor. Looking at the image, birthplace is Coombe Hospital, no middle names, father John Connor of Tallaght, mother Rose Connor formerly Lawlor, father's occupation labourer, registered 16 Oct 1913 as part of a whole series of births registered by a hospital official. Here is a link to the PDF:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1913/01432/1587272.pdf
Ooooo
Wowwwwwww! Thank you so much :D
How strange that her name's Sarah, but it MUST be her.
No clue as to the American/Canadian.
Pooooooo
Anstey Nomad
13-11-23, 09:52
Tying up another loose end, Lindula is a town located in the Nuwara Eliya District, Central Province of Sri Lanka, which is where Joseph Chaning-Pearce is buried.
My neighbour was registered as Sarah, but is always known as Sally.
kiterunner
13-11-23, 10:00
Ooooo
Wowwwwwww! Thank you so much :D
How strange that her name's Sarah, but it MUST be her.
The name Sally / Sallie was originally a nickname for Sarah.
Tying up another loose end, Lindula is a town located in the Nuwara Eliya District, Central Province of Sri Lanka, which is where Joseph Chaning-Pearce is buried.
My neighbour was registered as Sarah, but is always known as Sally.
Aha
Another piece of the jigsaw :D
I had no idea that Sally/Sallie was a nickname for Sarah.
Thank you both.
National Probate Calendar:
Getting a copy of this will might be useful.
More help please
How do I get a copy of the Will?
I keep searching but nothing comes up.
Annoyingly, cousin says his late father went to Sri Lanka for 3 weeks when he was abt 80.
Visited Lindula and met people who knew Sally and Paddy, but he didn't talk about it!!!
Enter his details here:
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/?advancedSearch=True&IsGrantSearch=True#wills
I keep doing it but it says 0 results
Just search Joseph Pearce probate year 1950, and the page should come up.
I keep doing it but it says 0 results
Did you only scroll as far as "Digital Search Results"? You have to carry on down for "Image Search results".
I can get the image but that's as far as it goes.
Unable to order anything
ElizabethHerts
13-11-23, 14:02
I can get the image but that's as far as it goes.
Unable to order anything
I'm trying to order a will for 1928. William Percival White. It gives me one page of results, no Williams. He's on the next page but no way of getting there!
I'm trying to order a will for 1928. William Percival White. It gives me one page of results, no Williams. He's on the next page but no way of getting there!
Not surprised!
You have my sympathy. I can't even get to the image now!
I'm trying to order a will for 1928. William Percival White. It gives me one page of results, no Williams. He's on the next page but no way of getting there!
Got there by searching for Winifred White
Got there by searching for Winifred White
Yayyyy
Well done.
Tried many many times to order the document but each time I fill it in and press the thingie, it takes me back to the order page.
:( :( :(
ElizabethHerts
13-11-23, 15:19
Got there by searching for Winifred White
Thanks, Phoenix. The search facility is very hit and miss.
William Percival White was my great-great-uncle, the brother of Herbert Edward White, my great-grandfather. His line has sadly died out. He had three children - two sons and a daughter. The daughter committed suicide in 1926 when she wanted to marry a man her parents regarded as unsuitable. The younger son was epileptic and didn't marry. He ended his life in an institution. The elder son had a bright future. He married, had a daughter and ran the family business. When he committed adultery and left his wife, my great-great-grandmother changed her will and his share was drastically reduced. His daughter married but had no children.
ElizabethHerts
13-11-23, 15:23
Yayyyy
Well done.
Tried many many times to order the document but each time I fill it in and press the thingie, it takes me back to the order page.
:( :( :(
Check your basket. Mine did just that but there was an item in my basket, which is the will I'm ordering.
Anstey Nomad
13-11-23, 15:30
It worked for me.
I SEEM TO HAVE DONE IT!!!
YES shouting lol
What a palava. Nothing was working, not even my email address
Had to re register.
Now I have to wait to see if it arrives and is anything useful.
Good morning ... not!!!
I have had an email to say that my document is ready for downloading.
There's no link and I haven't a clue how to find it
Tried putting in my email/password on the Gov.UK site and it said it was wrong.
More help please *sobs*
Sorry to be such a nuisance
ElizabethHerts
15-11-23, 09:10
Good morning ... not!!!
I have had an email to say that my document is ready for downloading.
There's no link and I haven't a clue how to find it
Tried putting in my email/password on the Gov.UK site and it said it was wrong.
More help please *sobs*
Sorry to be such a nuisance
I had an email waiting this morning saying my will was ready.
You need to sign in before you can do anything else. I can't help with that.
Once you are in, along the black bar at the top the second heading will say "My Orders" . Mine says "My Orders (6)".
Once you have clicked on that you need to scroll down and you should see a box where the first heading is "Active Orders". (The second heading is "Expired Orders".
It will tell you "Download will" and perhaps "Download Grant". Then it should be straightforward.
It keeps saying my email or password is wrong
So, I clicked on change password and am awaiting a response
Please can one of you give me a link to where I sign in?
Nothing's working properly
Where it says Sign in on the black bar at the top:
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/sign-in
Where it says Sign in on the black bar at the top:
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/sign-in
OMG OMG OMG!!!!!!!
Finally got there xxxxxxxxxxxxx
We've both been going nuts trying to find it. Almost murdered each other lol.
Well
Joseph has to be Uncle Jack!
He left Sallie (Sarah Rita Margaret Pearce ... Formerly known as Sarah Rita Margaret O'Connor) £5,000 + jewellery, house contents etc. of that flat and his wife (different address) house contents etc.
Gobsmacked
kiterunner
15-11-23, 11:57
Wow!
So are you thinking this is her biological father? Or might it be that her mother's husband was, but this man had some sort of relationship with her which led to rumours of who here father might be? Or is she his mistress?
Maybe already posted?
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/231266989/joseph-chaning-pearce
So are you thinking this is her biological father? Or might it be that her mother's husband was, but this man had some sort of relationship with her which led to rumours of who here father might be? Or is she his mistress?
Hmmmmmm
Thinking all sorts but as she was using his surname and they were living in the same flat, it would appear that they were an item ... or maybe not lol
And who's the American/Canadian who paid for her education?
Have you read it Merry? It does say that she looked after Joseph.
She would have been 36 at the time of his death.
Have you read it Merry?
Have I read what?!
Maybe already posted?
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/231266989/joseph-chaning-pearce
Oooo
No didn't see that one but my head''s swimming today.
A father figure at any rate.
Have I read what?!
The probate document?
The probate document?
Have you posted it somewhere??
Have you posted it somewhere??
Lol no
Shall I send it?
I have your email address somewhere
I quite understand if I'm driving you bonkers :d:);(
OK, but you've already told us what it says, haven't you?
OK, but you've already told us what it says, haven't you?
More or less but I might have missed something important.
I've read it now Didn't notice anything.
Gladys is on the 1939 Register with son, Thomas and one other (dau Josephine?) at 55 Elm Park Court, Harrow.
Joseph and Gladys are listed together at 19 Elm Park Court in 1937, but after that she is at 55 for a very long time and Joseph is never listed with her. Of course, under normal circumstances that could just be because J was overseas, but he could also have been in Oxford!
I looked for Joseph on the censuses but can't see him in 1911 but found a marriage in 1914 to a Gladys.
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