Uncle Jim's second wife

[Phoenix]

James Edgar Riley, to the surprise of my family, married in 1973 Elsie E Birch in Portsmouth. This was Elsie's third marriage.

Elsie E Keen had married John T Birch in September 1954 in Portsmouth
Elsie E McCarthy had married Sydney Keen September 1922 in Portsmouth

Here is Elsie with her first husband and only son, Victor in 1939 in Rugby:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=TNA%2FR39%2F5699%2F5699B%2F004&parentid= TNA%2FR39%2F5699%2F5699B%2F004%2F10
Elsie was born 7 May 1898 in Portsmouth. She spent much of her early married life in Rugby, but when Sydney fell ill, they returned to Portsmouth.
Sydney died 16 September 1953: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/17579832:1904?tid=&pid=&queryId=d2d43bb0c4c5609d4c e9017b3ba253a1&_phsrc=nUX11215&_phstart=successSou rce
I have struggled to find out anything about John Birch. He cannot be the John Joseph T Birch b 1901: https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=TNA%2FR39%2F2250%2F2250H%2F007&parentid= TNA%2FR39%2F2250%2F2250H%2F007%2F33
as he died in 1951
He was possibly the John Thomas Birch b 1897 in Burton, Staffs who signed up for the Royal Navy in Portsmouth in 1916:https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/288486:60522?tid=&pid=&queryId=c4196a6a134884b6146 0512956899fac&_phsrc=nUX11216&_phstart=successSour ce
This man may well have gone into the Merchant Navy as I can't find him on censuses. Nor can I find his death. Ideas, anyone?

[Sue from Southend]

This looks like a probate record for your John Birch
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1904/images/32858_611411_1994-00249?backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=6557bd3b2e94bcfe8380479d98aaf83e&pId=14610710

Apologies if you have this...

[Phoenix]

York???

No wonder I didn't find him. Thanks, Sue. (They never moved in those days, did they? :d)

[Merry]

The probate entry for this man:

Deaths Jun 1962
BIRCH John T 72 York 2d 798

....says his widow was called Elsie Edith Birch, so could be the one?

[Merry]

lol Should have looked to see if anyone else had posted whilst I was making a cup of tea!

[kiterunner]

There are a few John Thomas Birch births about the right time.

[Phoenix]

Jim worked on the railways. There is a John Thomas Birch who worked for LNER as a sawyer. He married Florence Isabella Fairclough who died in 1947. He appears in lots of Ancestry trees which show him as dying in York in 1962. None of the trees appear to show Elsie - though I can't imagine anyone would have expected a second marriage in Portsmouth.

Although both Jim and his first wife were blood relations, Elsie obviously wasn't. The family didn't approve of her - but largely because they seem to have felt he should have remained a widower all his days. The connection is too distant to justify acquiring the certificate for her second marriage, but I'd be fascinated to know how she and John Birch met - and whether his family approved of her!

[Merry]

Isn't it most likely to be this man? (born 13 Feb 1890):

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/61596/images/tna_r39_3904_3904e_016?backlabel=ReturnSearchResul ts&queryId=dbc03df2181941674f55f32afd3fafae&pId=23765722

Births Mar 1890
Birch John Thomas Bramley 9b 399

His wife in 1939 sees to have died in 1947:

Deaths Jun 1947
Birch Florence I 58 Leeds 2c 337

[Merry]

lol I see you were already there!

[Phoenix]

But only because you and Sue spotted that probate entry. And this sort of research would have been impossible before the 1921 census and the 1939 Register came online.

My grandparents lived in a 2up - 2down in Portsmouth for most of their married life. For a woman to travel so widely - and of course I have no idea what she did in the ten years between her second and third husbands - just didn't cross my mind.