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Phoenix
03-08-23, 18:28
Apologies for the length of this

Ann Williams married John Parsons in 1853 in Cardiff, by Registrar’s Certificate. The witnesses were James Avis, who may have been a colleague of John’s and a John Cannon who I haven’t identified. Ann was living at 5 Christina Street, which I’ve not been able to find on FMP’s addresses in 1851, and her father was John Williams, a gentleman.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/120217:62105?tid=156752995&pid=172503567441&queryId=b32b78a760d7a14ea69d4f6bcd2d5221&_phsrc=nUX8813&_phstart=successSource
When her daughter, Eleanor Catherine Parsons was born in 1858, Ann was the informant, and gave her name as Lucy Ann Williams. In all other records I have found to date, she is called Ann, or Annie.
Here is the family in 1861:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8768/images/MONRG9_4012_4020-0578?pId=13487292
They are living at Seniors Place, Old Road, Maindee in Monmouthshire:
John 39 born Devonshire
Ann 30 born London
Owen 6 born Glamorgan [John Henry Owen Parsons]
Ellen 3 born Newport Monmouthshire and
Charles Quick visitor unmarried 36 cordwainer born Devonshire
Something happened during the 1860s. By 1871, John was living with Eliza Steeds as man and wife, the first of their four children had been born, and they were living in Bristol.
Ann and the children are living in a cottage in North Narberth, Pembrokeshire:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7618/images/PEMRG10_5506_5509-0350?pId=7215224
It says defiantly that the head of the house is absent. Ann, now aged 38, is a plasterer’s wife, born London. John Henry, aged 16 is an apprentice plasterer.
John died in a fall from a building he was working on in Aberdare in 1879. Ann moved to London. Here she is in 1881:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7572/images/MDXRG11_1339_1344-1000?pId=15684949
12 Cumberland Terrace. Owen, 26 is a plasterer, now married. Ellen, who has slipped a couple of years is now 20, a domestic. Annie, 48 is an acknowledged widow. Servant is crossed out. Place of birth is now Chippenham, with Wilts added in a different hand.
Annie is bedridden, and appears to die the following year.
There are three things strange about this:
1. I can find absolutely nothing about Ann before her marriage. It seems odd that she says (in Wales) that she was born in London, and that in London her birthplace is given as Chippenham.
2. In 1881 her daughter Ellen is a servant, but in 1889 (saying she is 23) Ellen marries Daniel Baird Baird-Maturin, a wealthy Irish landowner. Ellen died in 1919 (aged 49!) with only a couple of hundred pounds to call her own. None of the Ancestry trees connect her to John Parsons and his complicated life, but her birth certificate proves the link.
3. What happened to Ann’s son, John Henry Owen Parsons? He must be the Harry Parsons who witnesses Ellen’s marriage, but I can find no trace of him after 1889.
Help, please!

kiterunner
03-08-23, 21:46
I don't know that saying the head of the family is absent was "defiant", since there is another such on the same page.

kiterunner
03-08-23, 21:49
In answer to number 1, I think that Ann's birthplace on the 1881 census got swapped with the sister-in-law's.

Edit - cancel that, Elizabeth Bidgood does seem to have been born in London after all.

kiterunner
03-08-23, 22:10
No 3 - there is a Harriett Parsons death Apr-Jun 1886 Brentford district, age 34, which could be his wife, so the death cert might have some info about him, e.g. an address. Or have you already got that? I found a cemetery record but she was not buried with family members:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/9041/images/44781_b284340-00145?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=UMN95812&_phstart=successSource&pId=614763

Merry
03-08-23, 22:22
Christina St doesn't sound like where a gentleman, or the dau of one, would live. Lots of refs to Cardiff Board of Health in the newspapers. Also info on some people who lived there and in some other connecting streets, but none of them appear in 1851, so the enumerator decided not to risk the area?!!

Phoenix
04-08-23, 07:06
Christina St doesn't sound like where a gentleman, or the dau of one, would live. Lots of refs to Cardiff Board of Health in the newspapers. Also info on some people who lived there and in some other connecting streets, but none of them appear in 1851, so the enumerator decided not to risk the area?!!


That's interesting, Merry. It's not on the 1861 index either. As it was down by the docks, it probably had a very rough, shiftless population with nobody living there very long.



As gentleman is such a flexible term, I did wonder whether Ann was actually illegitimate, or if her father was simply not working.

Phoenix
04-08-23, 07:22
I don't know that saying the head of the family is absent was "defiant", since there is another such on the same page.

I'm not familiar with much of Wales, beyond Cardiff and Newport. But Narberth doesn't look like an automatic choice for a woman and two children to go to. It's impossible to know whether John was supporting two families at this stage, but someone would have been paying the rent on the cottage.

Yes, it looks as if the two heads of household were possibly working together and left their families to support each other.

Phoenix
04-08-23, 07:24
No 3 - there is a Harriett Parsons death Apr-Jun 1886 Brentford district, age 34, which could be his wife, so the death cert might have some info about him, e.g. an address. Or have you already got that? I found a cemetery record but she was not buried with family members:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/9041/images/44781_b284340-00145?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=UMN95812&_phstart=successSource&pId=614763


Thanks, for that. It looks as if Harriet probably had at least one child, Ann Eliza, but I can't find her either

Phoenix
04-08-23, 07:32
Newspaper reports have plenty on the Baird-Maturin family: attending social events and visiting south coast resorts for the summer. A Welsh plasterer as a brother in law may well have been an embarassment (he's in dock as a young man, attempting to acquire the deeds to properties in Wales)

I did wonder whether Daniel gave him some money to set him up in business abroad.

Phoenix
04-08-23, 09:20
This is the second marriage of Harriet's mother:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/62105/images/004377859_00157?pId=1226965


Thomas Bidgood to Eliza Somers Broom nee Grater in Roath in 1874. One of the witnesses was an Alice Williams. Which might be a complete red herring.

kiterunner
04-08-23, 14:22
This is 5 Christina Street on the 1861 census:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8768/images/GLARG9_4036_4037-0014?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=UMN95837&_phstart=successSource&pId=13551038

Now I will try 1851.

kiterunner
04-08-23, 14:48
No luck, but I wonder when Christina Street was built, exactly? There are a lot more enumeration districts for Cardiff in 1861 than there were in 1851. I found a newspaper report from 1852 where new houses were going to be built in Christina Street, so could it be that the first houses there were built after the 1851 census?

kiterunner
04-08-23, 15:26
Hmm, this could be a coincidence, but the Anne Eliza Parsons with MMN Broom was born in 1884, and there is this marriage in 1908:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/62131/images/62121_328054000057_3153-00062?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=UMN95841&_phstart=successSource&pId=91590025

25 Feb 1908 St Paul, Worthing: Ernest Bacon, 28, plumber, marries Annie Eliza Parsons, 24, spinster, daughter of John Parsons, plasterer. Residence for both is 32 Stanley Street, Worthing. One of the witnesses is an Albert Charles Parsons.

kiterunner
04-08-23, 15:28
Never mind - on the 1911 census Annie Eliza Bacon's birthplace is Worthing, and there are two birth registrations which fit, so her father is not the right plasterer!

Phoenix
04-08-23, 15:59
It could be. The Cardiff Times doesn't have anything online before 1858, by which time Christina Street clearly wasn't the best place to live.

kiterunner
04-08-23, 16:02
I was looking on the Welsh newspapers website.

Phoenix
04-08-23, 16:10
I keep on going down similar rabbit holes, Kite. All the mothers seem to have at least two partners, without necessarily marrying them.

This might have been the baptism of Elizabeth Bidgood:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1558/images/31280_197028-00206?backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=3be1f89f08ce4f994600c6f7cc8b8ba2&pId=2879656


Elizabeth, daughter of John and Elizabeth Broom bp 18 November 1868, Stamford Terrace, St James, he a Butterman.


as there is this:


BROOM, ELIZABETH SUMMERS GRO Reference: 1868 D Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 212