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ElizabethHerts
23-07-23, 08:56
There is this couple marrying in New Zealand:

First name(s) John J
Last name Madden
Spouse's first name(s) Alice Emily
Spouse's last name Wingfield
Registration year 1904
Registration number 1904/3193
Certificate ordering To order, visit https://www.bdmonline.dia.govt.nz/NonHistoricRecords
Record set New Zealand Marriage Index
Country New Zealand
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Marriage & Divorce
Collections from Australasia, New Zealand


Is there any way of finding out the fathers of the couple?
I'm particularly interested in Alice Emily.

There are online trees but lots of errors and omissions.
maggie_4_7
23-07-23, 10:31
Could this be Alice's birth

https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Search/Search?Path=querySubmit.m%3fReportName%3dBirthSear ch%26recordsPP%3d30#SearchResults
maggie_4_7
23-07-23, 10:33
... and a John James Madden

https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Search/Search?Path=querySubmit.m%3fReportName%3dBirthSear ch%26recordsPP%3d30#SearchResults

MMN is not listed on births but marriages for the parents will be on that site too
maggie_4_7
23-07-23, 10:36
Sorry just realised it knocks search results out.

Alice parents listed as William and Fanny, and John's is John and Sarah Jane
ElizabethHerts
23-07-23, 10:38
Thanks, Maggie. There is one online tree which is completely wrong!

I have a DNA match for my OH and there is a rudimentary tree but many of the dates are impossible so I'm going to have to reconstruct it if I'm to get anywhere.
maggie_4_7
23-07-23, 10:38
Sorry just realised it knocks search results out.

Alice parents listed as William and Fanny, and John's is John and Sarah Jane

Just in case you didnt see my post above
ElizabethHerts
23-07-23, 10:48
Just in case you didnt see my post above

Yes, thanks! I managed to get there quite easily.
maggie_4_7
23-07-23, 11:19
I have Wingfields in my family.
maggie_4_7
23-07-23, 12:41
You have probably got here already, but Fanny and William married in Islington, London. I wanted to see who his father was, I have missing male Wingfields, but its Charles, I dont have a Charles.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/5541546:1623?tid=104610881&pid=310043157746&queryId=ccfbcee99c258b38939f5b4b9af59da6&_phsrc=bBl18&_phstart=successSource
ElizabethHerts
23-07-23, 13:08
You have probably got here already, but Fanny and William married in Islington, London. I wanted to see who his father was, I have missing male Wingfields, but its Charles, I dont have a Charles.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/5541546:1623?tid=104610881&pid=310043157746&queryId=ccfbcee99c258b38939f5b4b9af59da6&_phsrc=bBl18&_phstart=successSource

Thanks, Maggie.

The problem is I am not sure that the tree is correct, in which case the Wingfields are irrelevant to my OH's tree.

Ilma Kathleen Daisley married John Madden in New Zealand in 1920. They had a daughter through whose offspring the DNA match comes.

Several people have John Madden and Jack Wingfield Madden as the same person.


I have these births in New Zealand:

1921/2639 Madden Mabel Ilma Ilma Kathleen John -
1924/4681 Madden Ellen Alisa Elizabeth Ilma Kathleen John

1930/28495 Madden Gavin Keith Kath Elizabeth Jack Kingfield -
1926/2681 Madden Lawrence Kate Elizabeth Jack Winefield -


Also:
1904/13584 Madden Jack Wingfield Alice Emily John Joseph

This seems to indicate that John Madden and Jack Wingfield Madden are two different people. It seems that I need to research John Madden and Ilma Kathleen Daisley.
maggie_4_7
23-07-23, 13:22
Its really frustrating, the amount of DNA connections I have with fairly large trees that are wrong is amazing. I dont even need to closely inspect them to see glaring errors and I can't be bothered to delve any further the majority of the time.
HarrysMum
23-07-23, 17:49
Have you got the marriage cert? If it is NZ, it should have the parents of both bride and groom.
ElizabethHerts
23-07-23, 17:50
Have you got the marriage cert? If it is NZ, it should have the parents of both bride and groom.

It's not worth it, Libby. It's a DNA match for OH. If I don't find out I'm not overbothered.
HarrysMum
23-07-23, 17:54
Alice born 1884 parents Fanny and William according to her birth reg.
HarrysMum
23-07-23, 17:58
Can’t find a NZ marriage for William and Fanny but a few siblings for Alice.
ElizabethHerts
23-07-23, 21:18
Thanks, Libby. I don't think they are the ones I want.

Ilma Kathleen Daisley married John Madden in New Zealand in 1920. They had a daughter through whose offspring the DNA match comes.

The online tree of the DNA match is wrong!
HarrysMum
23-07-23, 21:29
Thanks, Libby. I don't think they are the ones I want.

Ilma Kathleen Daisy married John Madden in New Zealand in 1920. They had a daughter through whose offspring the DNA match comes.

The online tree of the DNA match is wrong!

So many are wrong, sadly.
HarrysMum
23-07-23, 21:32
It is Daisley on the reg. Do you know if the daughter is still alive? I’ll scout around.
HarrysMum
23-07-23, 21:36
Due to privacy laws, I can only search those born before 100 years ago, unless they died more than 50 years ago from memory….
But

Mabel Ilma b 1921
John Frederick William 1922
Ellen Alisa Elizabeth 1924