Jack Penry-Jones

[Phoenix]

Jack was a stalwart of a local society I belong to, but a bit before I joined.

This is his death:

Deaths Jun 1983
PENRY-JONES JACK 1AP1897 BROMLEY 11 1277

and this his birth:

Births Jun 1897
Penry-Jones Jack Lewisham 1d 1135
Jones Jack Lewisham 1d 1135

In 1911, he is aged 14, described as stepson of George Griffiths and his wife Margaret:

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBC%2F1911%2FRG14%2F02745%2F0283&parentid=GBC%2F1911%2FRG14%2F02745%2F0283%2F5


Margaret used her maiden name at marriage; both she and George described themselves as single in 1901.


Jack in 1901 is aged 3, a visitor in the household of Mary Copeman


https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/4223771:7814?tid=&pid=&queryId=17e610e1fe7da10b3f630e993cf228f1&_phsrc=nUX7712&_phstart=successSource


I can't find Jack's birth on the official GRO index. If there is any relational connection between Jack and the Griffiths, I would think it has to be through George, a schoolmaster originating in Caernarvonshire, but I can't see it.


Ideas, please!

[kiterunner]

So Margaret's maiden name is Barker, correct?

[kiterunner]

Jack's surname is indexed as Perry-Jones on the GRO site birth index and MMN is Barker.

[Phoenix]

*sobs*

I tried Penny-Jones, so why didn't I think of Perry?

[kiterunner]

I selected "Phonetically Similar Variations" rather than think of them myself!

[Phoenix]

Well done!

If birth certificates come down in price, this is another birth certificate I feel I ought to obtain.

Margaret is in Cambridgeshire in 1871, 1881, 1891 and 1901 (where she is described as a retired milliner)

George Griffiths is more mobile, in Sussex in 1891 and Blackheath in 1901.

The most likely scenario is that Margaret comes down to Kent in the mid 1890s. Has an affair with Jack's father. Presumably stays in Kent until she decides to marry George. Returns home to arrange a white wedding. It would be interesting to know whether George was Jack's father. No way of telling, as Jack had no children.

[Mary from Italy]

Did George leave a will? My great-grandfather was referred to as "my natural son" in his mother's husband's will.

[Phoenix]

Looking for a will, as Mary suggested.

1921 CENSUS
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBC/1921/RG15/02901/0075&parentId=GBC/1921/RG15/02901/0075/0
George Griffiths Head Male 1866 55 Caernarvonshire, Wales Assistant Master In A Secondary School Eltham College Se 9 (Head Master G Roberton Esg Ma)
Margaret Griffiths Wife Female 1869 52 Whittlesford, Cambridgeshire, England Home Duties-
Anthony Brian Griffiths Son Male 1903 18 Lewisham, London, England Training To Be A Secondary School Teacher-Jack Henry Jones Step-son Male 1897 24 Lewisham, London, England Commericial Clerk Port Of London Authority Head Office Leadenhall St Ec
Elizabeth Griffiths Visitor Female 1861 60, Lancashire, England Nurse Attendant On Invalid Mrs Hutt The Old Cottage Hoddesdon Herts

[Phoenix]

But

1922 Electoral Roll
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1795/images/40020_214146-00718?backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=c8a94dc2f9ae01d6ddbd97324ea0c21c&pId=73157309


Same address, 30 Verdant Lane SE6, lists just Margaret and Jack. So had George died? Moved out? Had a stroke?


Back hunting for answers...

[Phoenix]

Electoral Roll 1934
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1795/images/40020_190676-00077?backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=c8a94dc2f9ae01d6ddbd97324ea0c21c&pId=74705538


Margaret still there, this time with son, Anthony

[Merry]

Would it be of any interest to know that 'your' Margaret Barker is my 2nd cousin twice removed!! :D

[Phoenix]

You are kidding me, Merry! :eek:

[Merry]

Not at all!! (and how dare you tell me a blood relative had an affair!! lolol My gran, also a relative of Margaret's, will be turning in her grave!)

I saw the name Barker when I was reading the thread, but that didn't jangle any bells, however, when I opened the 1921 census link and saw Whittlesford, I thought "oh I have Barker's from there"! I opened my tree and saw my Margaret was a retired milliner!! I don't have anything on her after 1901 but it would be probably at least 15 years since I researched her bit of the tree. I surprised I remembered as Barker is her dad's name (obviously!) and I'm related via her mother, Adah Smith, so I only have a smattering of people named Barker.

[Phoenix]

:o:o:o


As Jack and Madge his wife had no children, I thought I was safe in posting this!


And poor Margaret had no grandchildren.


Ada Joan died in 1920, aged 16.


Anthony Brian moved to Kingston upon Thames, and Margaret went with him.



They are together in 1939

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/13952151:61596?tid=&pid=&queryId=1ae98a6f8b5adc045367e9d0ed4edf33&_phsrc=nUX7786&_phstart=successSource


He died in 1944 aged 41, leaving his mother to prove his will:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/17193747:1904?tid=&pid=&queryId=78fd627b2e9ea4ae243226c0707e66ea&_phsrc=nUX7789&_phstart=successSource

[Olde Crone]

Haha, small world eh? (But I wouldn't want to dust it.)

OC

[Phoenix]

Margaret didn't die until 1955, and made Madge, her daughter in law, her executor:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1904/images/32858_633870_1433-00391?backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=37b3189f39dead4f377b0016cfb8c8d2&pId=19269154

[Merry]

Margaret’s parents Ada and George were living apart in 1881 and I had a note that I’d been told he had been convicted of assaulting her. I just checked the papers and that was correct (1878). I think he died soon after the census. I doubt that was a single occurrence so family life may have been difficult for Margaret and her siblings. Plus all those knives on the premises.

[Phoenix]

I've bought my first digital image. And Jack's father was John Penry-Jones, a medical student.

Birth registered by his mother. She appears to have been lodging at 16 Loampit Vale, Lewisham.

I'm struggling to find a John Penry Jones who fits the bill, but I have found a John Henry Jones, born Fownhope, Herefordshire.

In 1891, he is a scholar in a boarding school in Landport, Portsmouth aged 16
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/17268546:6598?tid=&pid=&queryId=b0842b673ec3ec6b46bd26bb21c92368&_phsrc=nUX7884&_phstart=successSource


In 1901, he is a surgeon, on board a ship in Dartmouth, aged 26
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/11496298:7814?tid=&pid=&queryId=b0842b673ec3ec6b46bd26bb21c92368&_phsrc=nUX7883&_phstart=successSource


In 1921, he is a physician in Knotty Ash, Liverpool, but on holiday in Colwyn Bay
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBC/1921/RG15/27924/0501&parentId=GBC/1921/RG15/27924/0501/01


Do you think this single medical man, wandering around the country, could have been Jack's father, and Margaret misheard, or misremembered?


It's something I will never know for sure.

[Phoenix]

Here is John in 1911, boarding in Hampstead:

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBC%2F1911%2FRG14%2F00647%2F0151&parentid=GBC%2F1911%2FRG14%2F00647%2F0151%2F3

He qualified in 1899, gained extra qualifications in 1911, and by 1912 was in Norwich