Matthew Moneypenny b 1809 (N) Ireland

[MissM]

Hello,

A friend of mine from this group has suggested I post about my Great Great Grandfather on here in the hope someone will be able to help find any information from before 1830.

I have been looking for Matthew Moneypenny b 1809 for over 30 years and have found so much information on him starting with his marriage on 2 Aug 1830 in St Nicholas, Liverpool, UK to Elizabeth Cretney. They lived on the Isle of Man for some time and I have plenty of evidence of that, then they moved to Liverpool where he became a policeman and as well as press cuttings about him on duty, I have records of all his children being born and some of their marriage certificates and each census record while he was alive, and obviously his death certificate.

What I've always wanted to know is where he was from in (N) Ireland and who were his family? In all these years I have never been able to find anything about them. I'd really appreciate any help regarding Matthew from before 1830 before I pop my own clogs!

Thanks in anticipation!

Lynne Moneypenny

[kiterunner]

Welcome to the forum. As you probably know, a lot of the Irish records from the early part of the 19th century and earlier have not survived, so there may be nothing to find, but we will have a try. I haven't managed to get my Northern Irish line back very far, nor my partner's. Do you know whether Matthew Moneypenny was Catholic or Protestant?

[kiterunner]

On the 1871 census, Matthew and Elizabeth have a boarder named Hugh Moneypenny, age 53, unmarried, born Scotland. If his surname was really Moneypenny, I should think he was a relative of some kind, but it's also possible that the enumerator just wrote in "Do" when the surname was really something different. Have you already researched this person?

[MissM]

Hi Kiterunner, thanks for the welcome.

The only Hugh I've found is from March 1772 on his son's birth certificate. It is a while since I've looked for him though. I just got stuck.

From Matthew's marriage certificate I've presumed he's C of E.

Lynne

[Merry]

From Matthew's marriage certificate I've presumed he's C of E.

RC marriages were illegal in England between 1754 and 1837, so if he was Catholic he wouldn't have had a Catholic marriage in Liverpool at that date.

[garstonite]

Hi - MissM lives in the same road as me and when she was born we lived in the same road as well - we have known each other many many years - I suggested she join the site and post her query - can I ask - on Lan-opc the marriage states Matthew MANYPENNY - and on geneanet there are a lot of Manypenny in Northern Ireland - so is it possible he was born as Manypenny - or is it a mistranscription on Lan-opc ...his death on Familysearch 22nd Oct 1872 is as Matthew Moneypenny ??..and thanks for helping

[kiterunner]

Looking at trees on Ancestry, Matthew and Elizabeth's eldest son was named William, which suggests that Matthew's father's name could be William. There is a William Moneypenny will listed on PRONI:

Pre-1858 Wills and Admons
Sub-Index : Pre-1858 Wills Index
Surname : Moneypenny
Forename : William
Occupation :
Town or Townland : Markethill
Parish :
County : Armagh
Notes :
Description : Armagh Will & Grant (P)
PRONI Ref : D/462/165
Date : 1818
Original Documents : The original documents referred to in this index DO exist. Further information can be found under the PRONI reference above.

I haven't managed to get it to come up by searching the PRONI catalogue using the reference though.

[kiterunner]

Okay, I found out the slash after the D shouldn't be there so you have to search for the reference D462/165:

https://apps.proni.gov.uk/eCatNI_IE/ResultDetails.aspx

It doesn't seem to have been digitised though, so if you wanted to see it you would have to contact PRONI about getting a copy. Of course it could easily be nothing to do with your family at all!

[MissM]

Thanks Kiterunner,

I've got 6 Williams on that tree and all of them are older than the son you mentioned. I do have 2 much smaller Moneypenny lines going with 8 Williams between them but none old enough to be Matthew's father. ??

[kiterunner]

I must not have seen the tree that you are talking about. The tree that I think is yours has 6 William Moneypennys on it, including Matthew's oldest son, and all the others are younger than that one. I am not saying that the William who died in 1818 is Matthew's father, just that he possibly could be. He would almost certainly be old enough to be.

[MissM]

RC marriages were illegal in England between 1754 and 1837, so if he was Catholic he wouldn't have had a Catholic marriage in Liverpool at that date.

Thanks for the information. Most of the Moneypennys I've come across were married in C of E churches so I just presumed that was what they practiced but I'll keep in mind what you've said.

[MissM]

Sorry Kiterunner my mistake ;( I meant they were younger.

I've had a look at the Proni page you sent and I'm looking for a way to contact them to get a copy. It's quite exciting to be active on this again! I don't mind if it doesn't work out, it's just nice to be looking! :d

Thanks again,
Lynne

[kiterunner]

Hi - MissM lives in the same road as me and when she was born we lived in the same road as well - we have known each other many many years - I suggested she join the site and post her query - can I ask - on Lan-opc the marriage states Matthew MANYPENNY - and on geneanet there are a lot of Manypenny in Northern Ireland - so is it possible he was born as Manypenny - or is it a mistranscription on Lan-opc ...his death on Familysearch 22nd Oct 1872 is as Matthew Moneypenny ??..and thanks for helping

Name spellings weren't fixed in those days, Allan. There would have been various spellings of the name. There was also Menepenny, for instance.

[Olde Crone]

Slightly off topic - Merry is right, of course, but there are a few "marriages" in RC churches between those years on Lan-opc. They are blessings or nuptial masses of course, but the point is, lan-opc records them as marriages. Most are followed by actual marriages in the established church, including one Moneypenny marriage.

OC

[MissM]

"Name spellings weren't fixed in those days, Allan. There would have been various spellings of the name. There was also Menepenny, for instance."

There were 'Many' spellings of Moneypenny over the years. :rolleyes:

[Merry]

Slightly off topic - Merry is right, of course, but there are a few "marriages" in RC churches between those years on Lan-opc. They are blessings or nuptial masses of course, but the point is, lan-opc records them as marriages. Most are followed by actual marriages in the established church, including one Moneypenny marriage.

OC

Really I should have said, just because they married in the C of E doesn't mean Matthew wasn't Catholic. :D

[MissM]

Really I should have said, just because they married in the C of E doesn't mean Matthew wasn't Catholic. :D

Got it. Thanks Kerry! :)