View Full Version : Finding parents 1920s
Is there anyway, apart from FreeBMD, to find children with just the father’s surname and MMN?
kiterunner
28-02-23, 21:53
The GRO site:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp
Also Ancestry and Findmypast. And FamilySearch. And some of the local BMD sites.
FindMyPast. Civil Births can be searched like that. And provide results from 1837 onwards.
Thanks. I don’t have FMP but will try GRO. My last ancestor came here in 1870 so I have no idea how to search newer ones.
Now completely lost. This man is still alive so won’t post name. I have his birthdate according to him, 1926.
I have him on FreeBMD and Ancestry but not on GRO, although his older brother is on GRO.
He is my son in laws grandfather and trying to get back from him. I’ve told them they will need to buy his birth cert but how do they get it if it isn’t on GRO.
Or am I blind?
This man was born April 1926. His late brother, Charles EATON, born 1925 is on GRO with MMN Moore.
My man is on FreeBMD same MMN.
There is also a few other siblings but not sure of their names and old age and forgetfulness has impeded the search.
My man has a middle name that fits well with a EATON family I found but my man says that is not his father’s name and I’m stuck.
So…how do I order a birth cert I can’t find on GRO?
Or new glasses if someone else finds him.
Found the younger brother on GRO in 1931. No sign of my man.
Supposed to be in Doncaster if anyone is looking.
I can see him on Free BMD so I assume he is mistranscribed on the GRO
Using phonetically similar names does not cough him up
I would go on the GRO site, state that you know the index reference, and request the certificate using the information on Free BMD because the GRO just askes for the name, year, quarter, district volume and page, and all that is in Free BMD
Is this him:
GRO Reference: 1926 J Quarter in DONCASTER Volume 09C Page 1460
Under Caton
Anstey Nomad
01-03-23, 09:21
I was about to ask the same question. Initials Px Ex.
He shows on Ancestry under Eaton.
That’s him. MMN Moore, but the tree the family has has a different mother altogether.
Apparently PE had two brothers, one older, one younger. I have found two boys with the right names and still MMN Moore. I can’t find the right marriage so no idea of the parents really. Someone needs to buy the certs.
The other bit is PE always says his father died when he was 11. There is a 1937 death for a David Eaton with the same E middle name. He didn’t marry a Moore either, but had a daughter Kathleen. PE married a Kathleen and the there was a family joke about it being the family name.
I need valium.
Anstey Nomad
01-03-23, 14:39
Died 6 November 1937, probate to Kathleen Mary Eaton, spinster. Effects £734.10s.1d
Anstey Nomad
01-03-23, 14:51
Thais chap seems to be David Em[m]anuel Eaton who married Esther Elizabeth Randle in Alcester in SQ 1899.
You're two hours away from Doncaster now, if that makes any difference.
Could this be her?
Births Jun 1912
Eaton Kathleen M mmn Randle Aston 6d 813
1939 register Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Esther E Eaton 66
Kathleen M Eaton 27 born 1 Mar 1912
[Alt name - (marriage) Kathleen M Turner]
This is 1921:
David E Eaton Head Male 1876 44 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Gardener Chas B Grove & Sons, Nurseryman
Hester E Eaton Wife Female 1875 46 Warwickshire, England None -
Annie L Eaton Daughter Female 1901 19 Warwickshire, England Wholesale Grocers, Clerk Thom Wilson & Sons
Arthur Eaton Son Male 1904 17 Warwickshire, England Electrical Engineers, Assistant General Electrical, Co Ltd
Kathleen M Eaton Daughter Female 1912 9 Warwickshire, England - -
It would seem extremely unlikely that Hester was the mother of the subsequent children, but is there anything to prevent David leaving her, and then living as man and wife with another woman?
Name: Kathleen Mary Turner
Death Age: 84
Birth Date: 1 Mar 1912
Registration Date: Jan 1997
Warwickshire
Register Number: A33B
Marriages Sep 1940
Alec B Turner Kathleen M Eaton Sutton Coldf'd 6d 2231
District and Subdistrict: 7751A
Entry Number: 111
It would seem extremely unlikely that Hester was the mother of the subsequent children, but is there anything to prevent David leaving her, and then living as man and wife with another woman?
I thought that, but I'm put off by the fact that the address in David's probate entry in 1937 is the same as where his widow Hester and daughter Kathleen are living in 1939.
Is the only reason this man has been picked out because his middle name matches PEE's middle name, or is the first name also what has come from PEE?
EDIT and the Kathleen thing!
in David's probate entry in 1937 is the same as where his widow Hester and daughter Kathleen are living in 1939
And David is with his wife on the erolls 1926-1931 at that same address (FMP).
I picked David E Eaton due to the middle name and the year of his death.
The tree I have has John William Eaton and Eliza Ellen Atkin as P’s parents. If that is the case why is Moore the MMN on his birth entry as well as his brother’s?
P’s son has not got the birth cert as” I have the tree, I don’t need a cert”……..lol
Daughter has given me $100 to buy what I need.
Can someone tell me the best way to buy that cert, transcribed as Caton from GRO and can I get it downloaded or does it have to be posted to Australia?
What information does the hand written tree have Libby?
The chances are that some of that information will be partly true.
I wonder what PEE's mother's name was?
Just to chuck them in there -
1921
There are a number of John William Eaton but in Blackpool there is John William Eaton b 1870 Doncaster with a wife Annie b 1870 Malton Yorks
He is a railway clerk and the address is 93 Albert Road Blackpool
There is one Eliza Ellen Atkin b 1896 Stapleford Notts and she is single
I wonder what PEE's mother's name was?
Yes, I can quite imagine there could be some confusion over the father's name if P was young when he died, but most people know their mother's first name...
Does P have any other snippets that you think are correct?
The hand written tree I have is John William Eaton and Eliza Ellen Atkin as parents.
It is very complete with dates, places, etc. It is just the Moore MMN that is confusing, plus P saying his dad died when he was 11 and John William not dying until 1958. I did wonder if he was looked after by John and Eliza and put them as nok on his Navy records and tree write used that.
Anyhow I will buy the cert. Just need to know how.
I note that in freebmd Eliza is Eliza E M Atkin at marriage. I wonder what the M stood for?
I note that in freebmd Eliza is Eliza E M Atkin at marriage. I wonder what the M stood for?
Interesting. I have found P’s brother Charles R ( Richard) Eaton born 1925 in Doncaster. His MMN is Moore as well.
There is a younger brother George. We don’t know when he was born, but there is one born 1931 in Worksop, MMN Moore again. P says his dad moved around for work. I’m wondering if ‘daddy’ had two families, but I will wait till I get the birth cert.
1911 there is a Eliza Ellen Atkin with her widowed father Joseph Atkin and there are a number of Moore relatives in the house including Richard Atkin Moore who is described as son
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1911England&indiv=try&h=22427225
I’ve submitted an error to GRO to fix the Caton to Eaton.
The tree I have and a tree on Ancestry has a Charles born to JW Eaton and Eliza Atkin, but I can’t find it on GRO or FreeBMD but it is there with MMN Moore.
1901 Joseph Atkin is widowed and Ellen Moore is a widowed housekeeper, by 1911 she is described as other relative. So is Eliza Ellen the illegitimate daughter of Joseph and Ellen, giving her the names of Moore and Atkin?
Here is the 1901 https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/18456224:7814
That would fit with the 1939 register entry for John W Eaton b 13 Jun 1900 colliery hewer and his wife Eliza E Eaton b 27 Dec 1901 at 40 Aldam Road, Doncaster, Doncaster C.B., Yorkshire (West Riding).
They have three hidden entries after them!
The only problem is John W still being alive in 1939!!
First name(s) Last name Relationship to head Sex Birth year Age in years Birth place Occupation Employer
John Chappell Eaton Head Male 1873 48 Warsop, Nottinghamshire, England Coal Hewer Welbeck Colliery Company
John William Eaton Son Male 1900 21 Warsop, Nottinghamshire, England Coal Hewer Welbeck Colliery Company
Charles Eaton Son Male 1903 18 Warsop, Nottinghamshire, England Coal Hewer Welbeck Colliery Company
Richard Eaton Son Male 1906 15 Warsop, Nottinghamshire, England Pony Driver Welbeck Colliery Company
Eliza Ellen Moore Servant Female 1903 18 Derbyshire, England Domestic Private
Oooh!
So, John didn't die in 1937 but Eliza Ellen Eaton/Moore/Atkin did die in 1942:
Deaths Sep 1942 (>99%)
Eaton Eliza E 42 Doncaster 9c 617
So, I wonder how that fits with P's memories?
Could be.
Is there a list somewhere of Navy crew, like our Nominal Rolls ? P says he was on HMS Tumult. I am being drip fed info. For heavens sake, why can’t people hand over everything they have if they want help?
I think we have it! Eliza Ellen Atkin’s parents on this written tree are Joseph Atkin ( widower) and Ellen Moore ( widow) That is how it is written on the tree with no marriage date.
So Eliza’s father could be Joe Atkin. She married as Atkin, but puts Moore on her kids’ birth certs. A bit weird, but fits.
I think we have it! Eliza Ellen Atkin’s parents on this written tree are Joseph Atkin ( widower) and Ellen Moore ( widow) That is how it is written on the tree with no marriage date.
They married in Q1 1902.
They married in Q1 1902.
Oddly 1911 Joseph says he is widowed and Ellen still is Moore but says she is married!
They are both widowed in 1901
Oddly 1911 Joseph says he is widowed and Ellen still is Moore but says she is married!
They are both widowed in 1901
Heavens above………..pass me the valium.
Oddly 1911 Joseph says he is widowed and Ellen still is Moore but says she is married!
Possibly because Ellen Moore's husband, Herbert Cornelius Moore, doesn't seem to be very dead! He married her in 1893 aged 20 and then married again in 1903 as a bachelor aged 25. Has the same father both times!
Just trying to find him in 1911....
There's a bit in the Sheffield Daily Telegraph 31 March 1905 about Herbert Cornelius Moore's bigamy. As well as marrying Ellen in 1893 he married Sarah Long in 1903 (that's the second entry I saw) and also Annie Maria Dunmore in 1896 (but I can't find that marriage!)
Ellen Barnes married Herbert Cornelius Moore in 1893 in Basford.
There is a birth for Eliza Ellen Moore in 1901 in Woolwich. 1901 is the date I have to Eliza’s birth, but……..
Cannot find Herbert’s death yet. Lots of Herbert Moore.
Sorry, posted before I saw that Merry. Nice type.
She was born in Nottinghamshire (1911 census) and her dob is on the 1939 register (think it was Dec 1901?) posted earlier. (EDIT post #33)
ATKIN, ELIZA ELLEN mmn BARNES
GRO Reference: 1902 M Quarter in BASFORD Volume 07B Page 250
Ellen was born in Nottinghamshire (1911 census)
The place of birth seems to read 'Asworth' but I think it must be Awsworth which is in Basford district.
The 1911 census also details that 9 year old Eliza has been deaf for 6 years.
First name(s) Last name Relationship to head Sex Birth year Age in years Birth place Occupation Employer
John Chappell Eaton Head Male 1873 48 Warsop, Nottinghamshire, England Coal Hewer Welbeck Colliery Company
John William Eaton Son Male 1900 21 Warsop, Nottinghamshire, England Coal Hewer Welbeck Colliery Company
Charles Eaton Son Male 1903 18 Warsop, Nottinghamshire, England Coal Hewer Welbeck Colliery Company
Richard Eaton Son Male 1906 15 Warsop, Nottinghamshire, England Pony Driver Welbeck Colliery Company
Eliza Ellen Moore Servant Female 1903 18 Derbyshire, England Domestic Private
The above 1921 census record does say Awsworth for Eliza Ellen, but also Derbyshire rather than Notts.
Here's the birth reg for JWE, date matches 1939 Register and place matches census:
EATON, JOHN WILLIAM mmn SLANEY
GRO Reference: 1900 S Quarter in MANSFIELD Volume 07B Page 56
Here's the birth reg for JWE, date matches 1939 Register and place matches census:
EATON, JOHN WILLIAM mmn SLANEY
GRO Reference: 1900 S Quarter in MANSFIELD Volume 07B Page 56
Thanks. That’s the tree I have. It was just the MMN Moore that was annoying me.
I just wrote a massive long post about the bigamy cases and listing all the GRO refs for the births of the children, but lost the lot!
To cut it short and from memory only.... Joseph Atkin married Agnes Cope in 1891. She already had a child Ruth Cope (illegitimate). They seem to have had two daughters who were possibly not registered (Hannah and Emily) and one who was registered (Agnes 1896 I think). I don't know where Agnes jr is in 1901. I don't know what happened to Agnes senr coz I've not looked but there was a suggestion JA may have also been committing bigamy in 1902 as well as Ellen!
The children of Ellen Moore (three daughters and two sons) were all registered. The daughters in the name Atkins and the sons Moore, but Richard Moore with Atkins as a middle name. The son James J may well be from her marriage, or maybe another man, though registered as Moore so prob her husband on the cert, no matter the biology.
Ellen was let off her bigamy, because she said Herbert Moore's father told her her husband was dead!
In 1916 she claimed support from JA for her three children (not named) with him. He said they only had two children together, but was ordered to pay for three. It was this article that suggested JA committed bigamy (other than with Ellen), but I did wonder if they got mixed up with Herbert C Moore?!!
Possibly a mix up as Agnes Cope died before the 1902 second marriage of her husband:
Deaths Dec 1896
Atkin Agnes 25 Basford 7b 111
She was 18 in 1891 when she had baby Ruth Cope with her, so this must be the right Agnes. Death is the same Q and district as the birth of Agnes Atkin mmn Cope.
They seem to have had two daughters who were possibly not registered (Hannah and Emily)
Reg as Adkin not Atkin, mmn Cope. 1892 and 1894 respectively.
I must admit I haven’t got so far as looking yet………all day getting yearly cancer checks.
But, do we know if Eliza Ellen Atkin was actually an Atkins or Moore biologically?
Much more likely an Atkin. I think if she wasn't biologically an Atkin, she wasn't a Moore either.
I would imagine she may have said Atkin at her marriage as she (presumably) gave the name Joseph Atkin as her father. She used the name Moore the rest of the time so used that when asked mmn.
I hope all your checks go OK Libby xx
Thanks Merry. Once your boob tries to kill you, the medical profession seems to think they own you. Still without them, we’d be in a bit of a pickle.
Now I have slept, I will look for Eliza’s birth. Daughter loves the story, as does her husband, but husband’s father will be horrified. He is a retired Lt Colonel from the Army and people in his family ‘do things right’, however old PE Eaton will also love it.
One other question………Eliza Ellen Atkins dob 27/12/1901, according to tree. Reg Q1 1902. Do you know if her parents had to be married to register her as Atkins?
kiterunner
02-03-23, 19:12
They wouldn't have had to prove that they were married.
Eliza Ellen Atkins dob 27/12/1901, according to tree
And according to the 1939 Register.
Also, it's Atkin - No S!
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