View Full Version : Who were their parents?
Philip Cuthbert Anderson b Sept q 1848 Bethnal Green, and Clara Rebecca Margaret Anderson born June q 1851 Shoreditch, mmn Cuthbert for both births.
They were baptised together 7 May 1851 St Jude Bethnal Green, parents Minnie and Henry Anderson officer in East India Services.
https://www.ancestry.com.au/discoveryui-content/view/3225777:1558?tid=&pid=&queryId=f33e2a5c4338f7eaa9c0d3193441b6d2&_phsrc=Irh7718&_phstart=successSource
1851 Cuthbert Anderson is a visitor with Elizabeth Garrett
https://search.ancestry.com.au/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=8860&h=282383&tid=&pid=&queryId=9ad45aa70e7480f75e1e02d62e0d31e0&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Irh7726&_phstart=successSource&_gl=1*1x5sqfe*_ga*MTgzMDkzNjIyNC4xNjQ0NjI3NDkz*_ga _4QT8FMEX30*MTY2MzcxNTIxMi4zMDAuMS4xNjYzNzE1ODQ0Lj AuMC4w
1861 Philip C Anderson is a visitor in the household of Seth Watson
https://www.ancestry.com.au/discoveryui-content/view/11196514:8767?tid=&pid=&queryId=9528e9904e2b6be3458afda84de5a59a&_phsrc=Irh7724&_phstart=successSource
1861 Clara (b1851 Calcutta) is a visitor in Oxford in the home of Rebekah BOUSFIELD
https://www.ancestry.com.au/discoveryui-content/view/8260808:8767?tid=&pid=&queryId=7160931915a82940e9eff63a9d834df6&_phsrc=Irh7714&_phstart=successSource
At marriage Clara says her father was Henry ANDERSON clerk in Holy Orders
https://www.ancestry.com.au/discoveryui-content/view/6668438:1623
1851 there is a Minie Anderson b c1828 London, married but no husband as a visitor in Shoreditch with William and Louisa Godwin
https://search.ancestry.com.au/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=Irh7731&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&dbid=8860&gsfn=minnie&gsln=anderson&gsln_x=1&cp=11&qh=2511175f823475673f67d16e46c4dd34&new=1&rank=1&uidh=ew1&redir=false&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=1&h=253831&recoff=&ml_rpos=2&queryId=1fc01465fcd9a3dc4dcf48c3e47f703a&_gl=1*fkq1hc*_ga*MTgzMDkzNjIyNC4xNjQ0NjI3NDkz*_ga_ 4QT8FMEX30*MTY2MzcxNTIxMi4zMDAuMS4xNjYzNzE2MDQ5LjA uMC4w
Online family trees have a number of different people as the parents including Henry Lacon Anderson who was in the India Civil Service, but he married in India in 1841, Anne Grace Agnes Stuart and he is still married to her in 1871.
Philip Cuthbert Anderson (who is my research interest) arrived in New Zealand in 1865. He was educated at High Wycombe Grammar school, and was a school teacher when he first arrived here before being ordained in 1873.
He was said to be nephew of Octavius Lawes Woodthorpe Bousfield who was a surveyor in NZ, and who was a son of Rebecca Bousfield, who appears to be the same person that Clara is a visitor with in 1861
I cannot find an Anderson/Cuthbert marriage that fits, nor can I find anything more of Minnie or Henry.
Can anyone see what I, (and most of the family researchers) might have missed??!
I have just come across this
https://knowledgebank.org.nz/audio/diaries-of-reverend-philip-cuthbert-anderson-susan-siddles/
There is some information about his parents, but it is unclear where that information came from, his diaries or some other source. I am guessing that maybe online trees have been used.
Funny, it is actually my local library involved, so I might head down there and see if I can make contact with the people who transcribed the diaries.
I've not looked at everything as your au links don't work for me. However, the thing that sticks out is that the baby Clara should be on the 1851 census. You say it states born Calcutta on the 1861 census, but her birth was registered in Shoreditch and her bap says born 31 Mar 1851. If something had gone awry and she was really born in India, if the date is right, she couldn't have got to the UK in time for her baptism!
I'm not saying that Minie Anderson 1828 isn't the right person, but where is her child!?
As I still haven't looked at all your links, I may not have taken in everything, but these people:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7619/images/LNDRG10_101_104-0612?backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=e06f9c4c00145d1fb1bcefc5468ab0fb&pId=10864486
(or search Fanny E Anderson b 1845, living at St George Hanover Square in 1871)
....might be connected. The child, Florence (Florence Percy Anderson b 1870 Q3 St G H Square) also has mmn Cuthbert and there's an Alice Cuthbert, visitor, in the house.
At the bap of Florence Percy Anderson her father is Henry Percy Anderson occ 'Foreign Office'
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/61866/images/61865_314054001181_18295-00119?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=6230d42624036307f436424abfc2f685&usePUB=true&_phsrc=psY33191&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=2241509
There's a death for a Henry Percy Anderson in 1896 (St G H Sq), b abt 1831.
And a Probate entry....which has him as Sir Henry Percy Anderson! He died at 53 Eaton Square (Belgravia), London.
There's a marriage for Henry Percy Anderson and Fanny Isabella Cuthbert in 1869 at St Paul's, Wilton Place, Westminster. He is a bachelor. His father is recorded as Robert Anderson, clerk in Holy Orders. Her father is William Cuthbert Esq.
This Henry is just about old enough to be the father of the other children, but looks a bit scandelous - no marriage to Minnie and then marries her younger relation?!! Of course we don't know it's the same man yet! lol
Hard to know which way to go first, but here is the birth reg for Fanny Isabella Cuthbert:
CUTHBERT, FANNY ISABELLA COOKSON
GRO Reference: 1845 J Quarter in THE HEXHAM UNION Volume 25 Page 297
Could she be Minnie's sister?
Answer to that is Unlikely as when Fanny appears on her first census in 1851 her parents are only aged 37 and 29 and her eldest sibling in the house is aged 9.
I looked at 53 Eaton Sq in 1881, 1891 and 1901, but nothing to help.
There are a few newspaper entries for Henry Percy. I've only read one so far, but it says his parents were Rev Robert Anderson of Brighton (Sussex) and the Hon. Caroline Dorothea Shore, dau of the First Lord Teignmouth. No info on wife or children in this snippet.
I'm still wondering if all this is a huge coincidence, but can't seem to eliminate Henry Percy yet!
Hmmm, I had hoped Henry Percy might have been a little older than his death suggests, if he was going to father those two older children. However, in 1841 he is with his parents in Brighton and is aged 10.
Am I wasting my time? lol
Looks like I might be, as Henry is still in Brighton in 1851, with hs widowed mother, Caroline. He is recorded as an undergraduate of Oxford Uni, so .... a fat red herring, most likely!!
Back to the drawing board......
He was said to be nephew of Octavius Lawes Woodthorpe Bousfield who was a surveyor in NZ, and who was a son of Rebecca Bousfield, who appears to be the same person that Clara is a visitor with in 1861.
My brain aches reading that!
I see Octavius was aged 10 in 1841, and we know his 'nephew', Philip Cuthbert Anderson was born in 1848. Rebecca was born in the v late 1790s, so she may have had children from perhaps 1820 or a little before. If a sibling of Octavius was a parent of Philip then how did they come by the surname either Anderson or Cuthbert? *headache*
I still have not found baby Clara in 1851, nor the address that was given at the 1851 baptism.
maggie_4_7
21-09-22, 08:42
I still have not found baby Clara in 1851, nor the address that was given at the 1851 baptism.
She is registered in the April - June Qtr so possibly not born in time!
Edit to say: The address on the baptism is just around the corner from where I am now, needless to say the buildings/cottages do not exist now but there was a church that could now be the Lithuanian Church now. It is a bit of a hotchpotch of design studios and old businesses now but was pretty derelict when I was a child. It is on the edge of the Regents Canal and the old gas works which they are now completely rebuilding by using the gas works in the new buildings.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/middx/vol11/pp109-112
"and the Oval, with 36 cottages and a chapel, on the eastern boundary by 1836. (fn. 30) Much of the estate, however, was occupied by a fishpond until the mid 19th century."
kiterunner
21-09-22, 08:49
This is 12 Oval Cottages (the address from the baptisms) in 1851. Elizabeth Garrett - I think she was mentioned in the original post.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8860/images/MDXHO107_1539_1539-1269?ssrc=&backlabel=Return
Edit - ah, one of your links which didn't work was to the same census entry! Cuthbert is there.
kiterunner
21-09-22, 08:51
She is registered in the April - June Qtr so possibly not born in time!
Her baptism record says that she was born in March.
maggie_4_7
21-09-22, 08:54
Her baptism record says that she was born in March.
Sorry didn't spot that.
Well, I got nowhere fast with any of that and now I have to go and do other things!! lol
This is 12 Oval Cottages (the address from the baptisms) in 1851. Elizabeth Garrett - I think she was mentioned in the original post.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8860/images/MDXHO107_1539_1539-1269?ssrc=&backlabel=Return
Edit - ah, one of your links which didn't work was to the same census entry! Cuthbert is there.
lol Thanks! The 1851 links was one of those I never looked at!
Makes me think of Elizabeth Garrett Anderson!
I have to go out now, so hopefully this will be solved by the time I return :D
kiterunner
21-09-22, 12:16
Clara and Rebecca are both names from the Bousfield family but I haven't found a connection between the Bousfields and the surname Cuthbert yet.
kiterunner
21-09-22, 18:55
There is a public tree on Ancestry which has a Henry Cuthbert born 1805 Kent as a half-brother to Rebecca Richings (Bousfield on the censuses etc) and shows him as having a daughter Sophia Minnie Cuthbert born 1828 with her being the mother of Philip and Clara. Will need checking though.
Looks as though Sophia married a James Jones in 1850 and they are together on the 1851 census so unlikely to be her. But she did have a younger sister Jane born about 1830 so I will see if we can rule Jane out too...
There is a Jane Cuthbert marriage in 1851 daughter of Henry William Cuthbert, carman, which doesn't fit with Henry Cuthbert's occupation of shoemaker, but there is a baptism for Henry William Cuthbert at Lewisham in 1804, son of James and Sophia, abode Blackheath, which looks likely to be the right baptism for the Henry who is in that Ancestry tree. So I don't know where they got the idea he was a son of Thomas Richings - maybe they just looked around for a possible Minnie Cuthbert and tried to make it fit into the Bousfield / Richings family? Anyway, back to the drawing board...
Because Clara was a visitor with Rebekah Bousfield in 1861, and not some sort of family member, I am wondering if the references to Philip being a nephew of Octavius Bousfield was more the family friend kind of uncle than a blood uncle.
There is also the issue of Clara's place of birth on that census, she was clearly born in London and not in India, and surely family would know that?
Octavius Bousfield was an important figure in this part of NZ, and Philip Cuthbert Anderson was the first vicar of the local church, so finding a real link between the two families would be wonderful.
I went round and round in circles yesterday trying to find a Bousfield and Cuthbert or Anderson link, without any success.
There is always a sliver of truth in information, so working on what we do have -
No evidence of a marriage for Minnie Cuthbert and Henry Anderson
At baptism, Henry Anderson, India Civil service
Henry Lacon Anderson was in the India Civil Service, although married to someone else.
Henry Lacon Anderson was baptised in India 1817, son of George William Anderson and Caroline, and he married in India 1841. There are no obvious baptisms for children of Henry and his wife in India on Family Search. They don't seem to appear on UK census until 1871.
Philip attended a good school and was well educated - a school teacher before ordination, so someone paid for that.
Clara appears to have married reasonably well, to the son of a clergyman, the register does say that her father was also clergy, but I wonder if that bit is true. The earliest Crockford on line is 1868 and he is not there, could be dead by then of course.
Are they the illegitimate children of Henry Lacon Anderson and Minnie Cuthbert? A number of family trees seem to think so.
Found the marriage in 1813 for the parents of Henry Lacon Anderson, George William Anderson of East India Civil Service married Caroline Pooley. So she is not a Bousfield. LOL
Mary from Italy
21-09-22, 21:54
I've not looked at everything as your au links don't work for me.
Just replace the au in the link with co.uk or whichever sub you have.
Thanks Mary. I did try that yesterday, but in the end just searched for the people instead! I have rather lost the will to live with these people for the moment. :o
kiterunner
22-09-22, 18:53
Erm! I was looking at the National Probate Calendar entry for Rebekah Bousfield who died in 1869 - administration of her estate worth £50 was granted to her son the Reverend George Benjamin Richings Bousfield in 1873, which was no help to us, but I noticed this two entries later:
BOUSFIELD William Cheek. Effects under £800.
17 June. The Will of William Cheek Bousfield late of 12 Eldon-street in the Borough and County of Newcastle-upon-Tyne Gentleman who died 24 May 1873 at 12 Eldon-street was proved at Newcastle-upon-Tyne by Margaret Rebekah Clara Anderson of Eldon-street Spinster the Niece one of the Executors.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1904/images/31874_221733-00117?backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=a0ebe02158aa333c442bac748371848b&pId=4508772
I wonder whether his will would explain exactly how she was his niece?
He was born about 1820, son of William Cheek Bousfield sr and Rebekah.
kiterunner
22-09-22, 19:13
I'm working through the Bousfield siblings from various public trees and found one which has Sophia Louisa Bousfield born 1825 as the mother of Philip and Clara. I don't know whether that's right, but Clara must be Margaret Anderson on the 1871 census, a visitor in Sophia's household (Sophia's married name being Drury):
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7619/images/LNDRG10_20_23-0358?pId=4417605
kiterunner
22-09-22, 19:19
I don't know where Sophia was in 1851, nor her younger sister Emily. Maybe if we find them in 1851 it might help? But I have to go and eat now.
UK Census Online 1851 census has
Name: Rebecca Bousfield
Age: 58
Born In: 1793
Profession: Annuitant
London
Name: Emily Bousfield
Age: 21
Born In: 1830
London
Name: Sophia Bousfield
Age: 21
Born In: 1830
London
I don't know if these are the right people or if they are all from the same household, but at the moment I can't find them on Ancestry or FMP.
I have just checked the birth registration of the daughter of Sophia on the 1871 census, and her mmn was Bousfield, as it should be, but I was making sure it was not Cuthbert!
1851 there is an Emily Jane Bousfield b c1830 ?Black Friars Middlesex, a visitor governess in Poole Keynes with the Rev Charles Avery Moore rector of Poole Keynes and his family
https://search.findmypast.com/record?id=GBC%2F1851%2F4355376%2F00446&parentid=GBC%2F1851%2F0010419330
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=8860&h=7770493&tid=&pid=&queryId=14114b442c1da064f8359fade51452e2&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Irh7787&_phstart=successSource&_gl=1*146f8ph*_ga*MTgzMDkzNjIyNC4xNjQ0NjI3NDkz*_ga _4QT8FMEX30*MTY2Mzg3NzQwMS4zMDQuMS4xNjYzODgxMTAyLj AuMC4w
I can't find Sophia in 1851 on either Ancestry or FMP
Is there somewhere we can actually see the will of William Check Bousfield to see what he does say? Although we have a rule that we don't pay doing this research, occasionally rules are made to be broken!
UK Census Online 1851 census has
Name: Rebecca Bousfield
Age: 58
Born In: 1793
Profession: Annuitant
London
Name: Emily Bousfield
Age: 21
Born In: 1830
London
Name: Sophia Bousfield
Age: 21
Born In: 1830
London
I don't know if these are the right people or if they are all from the same household, but at the moment I can't find them on Ancestry or FMP.
I think Emily is probably on the link on the post above, and here is Rebecca
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=8860&h=7770493&tid=&pid=&queryId=14114b442c1da064f8359fade51452e2&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Irh7787&_phstart=successSource&_gl=1*146f8ph*_ga*MTgzMDkzNjIyNC4xNjQ0NjI3NDkz*_ga _4QT8FMEX30*MTY2Mzg3NzQwMS4zMDQuMS4xNjYzODgxMTAyLj AuMC4w
But I still cannot find Sophia
Do the links work? I have changed them to .co.uk
Yes thanks, they do.
I think the Sophia I found in my last post is probably the unconnected Sophia Bonsfield who is living with her parents in Clapham, London.
kiterunner
22-09-22, 21:42
I have just checked the birth registration of the daughter of Sophia on the 1871 census, and her mmn was Bousfield, as it should be, but I was making sure it was not Cuthbert!
1851 there is an Emily Jane Bousfield b c1830 ?Black Friars Middlesex, a visitor governess in Poole Keynes with the Rev Charles Avery Moore rector of Poole Keynes and his family
https://search.findmypast.com/record?id=GBC%2F1851%2F4355376%2F00446&parentid=GBC%2F1851%2F0010419330
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=8860&h=7770493&tid=&pid=&queryId=14114b442c1da064f8359fade51452e2&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Irh7787&_phstart=successSource&_gl=1*146f8ph*_ga*MTgzMDkzNjIyNC4xNjQ0NjI3NDkz*_ga _4QT8FMEX30*MTY2Mzg3NzQwMS4zMDQuMS4xNjYzODgxMTAyLj AuMC4w
I can't find Sophia in 1851 on either Ancestry or FMP
Is there somewhere we can actually see the will of William Check Bousfield to see what he does say? Although we have a rule that we don't pay doing this research, occasionally rules are made to be broken!
It would cost you £1.50 in GBP to order a copy:
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/
Thanks Kate, a cup of coffee price then! I will go ahead and order it, hopefully it will help. Then I might head in the library and see if I can get a copy of the story he wrote about his life.
kiterunner
22-09-22, 22:00
Let us know what you find out from both!
Will do!
The will is ordered and I will now wander down to the library and see what they have.
Thanks for all the help.
Ok, the library did not have much more than we have found unfortunately!
They did have his birth certificate, son of Henry Philip ANDERSON civilian in the East India company service and Sophia Minnie nee CUTHBERT, and Sophia was the informant. The address is 12 Oval Cottages Bethnal Green
They do have a file of information from on line concerning his family, but it is the submitted stuff that we have been finding and no sources, so that is not very useful.
I have read his life story which he wrote, but he managed to not mention any family, except an unnamed uncle he joined in NZ, which we know was Octavius BOUSFIELD. His early life he described as happy, going to school in a clergymans house at the age of 6 and boarding school at the age of 8.
I have speed read the first 4 years of his dairies which he kept from 1871 until his death. They have not transcribed them all, just the ones that relate to this area. As an aside, it amused me, he lived in the same area as I did a few years ago, and he talks of visiting various locals, their descendants are still in that area and I have also eaten in their houses!
The only mention of his parents in those 4 years, is a comment about someone who "was like myself a clergymans son."
And he mentions just after he married in 1874 that he received a letter from England with his fathers ring and one for Kate (his wife)
He did write home a lot, and often received letters, but rarely says who they were to or from, except for his sister who he does mention. He often uses initials and not names, or mentions Aunt Kate and Aunt Sarah
He does say he received news of Uncle William's death, and the date is the death of William Cheek BOUSFIELD
1872 He says that Aunt Kate informed him of the death of Uncle Ben RICHINGS vicar of Mancetter
There is information, and a diary, of James Henry DRURY who joined him here c1879. James Henry DRURY, son of Sophia Louisa BOUSFIELD died here, so that must be him. James diary was interesting and suggests Philip had a significant drinking problem. There was obviously a problem because Philip and family left this area in a bit of a hurry, and then similarly left the country for Australia.
1872 He says that Aunt Kate informed him of the death of Uncle Ben RICHINGS vicar of Mancetter
Would that be Aunt Kate's uncle or Philip C Anderson's uncle?
Benjamin Richings died 1872 aged 84. Census says b Oxford. Baptism at All Saints Oxford 11 May 1788 has parents Thomas and Mary. Ben's eldest sibling bap 1779. Parents married 1778 at Oxford, bride Mary Haynes.
And of course, one of William Check Bousfield's sons was George Benjamin Richings Bousfield b 1824.
Is the main issue now just why Sophia (Minnie) was calling herself Cuthbert and not Bousfield? Oh and who exactly Henry (Philip?) Anderson actually was, because most trees have just taken entries that are for other people?
I can't find Sophia in 1851 on either Ancestry or FMP
Isn't that because she is called Minnie?:
1851 there is a Minie Anderson b c1828 London, married but no husband as a visitor in Shoreditch with William and Louisa Godwin
I was looking for Sophia Bousfield in 1851 and there was no sign of her. Unless she is calling herself Minnie Anderson.
My reading of the diary was that it was his uncle Benjamin Richings, I assume he is a bother of Rebekah, so maybe a great uncle.
kiterunner
23-09-22, 09:08
Ok, the library did not have much more than we have found unfortunately!
They did have his birth certificate, son of Henry Philip ANDERSON civilian in the East India company service and Sophia Minnie nee CUTHBERT, and Sophia was the informant. The address is 12 Oval Cottages Bethnal Green
That explains why various family trees have picked different Sophias as his mother! It must be Sophia Louisa Bousfield then.
So I wonder what led to her calling herself Cuthbert?
I saw some had Henry Anderson b Calcutta 1811 but I couldn’t see why.
maggie_4_7
23-09-22, 12:28
So I wonder what led to her calling herself Cuthbert?
I saw some had Henry Anderson b Calcutta 1811 but I couldn’t see why.
This Henry would be a lot older than Sophia/Minnie though.
UK, Registers of Employees of the East India Company and the India Office, 1746-1939
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/142790:61468?_phcmd=u(%27https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/?name=Henry+Philip_Anderson&birth=1811_calcutta-west+bengal-india_743003&count=50&gender=m&keyword=Officer+in+East+India+Company&location=3257.3250&priority=english&searchType=t&treePerson=50744488_13100021729&successSource=Search&queryId=c54e26d846ca57e9de1b72fd986d1723%27,%27suc cessSource%27)
Oh and the very Henry Lacon Anderson
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/114078:61468?_phsrc=IeP20610&_phstart=successSource&gsfn=Henry&gsln=Anderson&ml_rpos=1&queryId=2da36551e8bc5168e8499c6d4710036e
There is a lot of Henry Andersons no wonder all the trees online are a mishmash of Henry and Sophia Minnies.
Edit to say: I do realise the East India Service is probably a religious organisation and totally different but as a lot of trees have various Henry's a few are probably working for the East India Company rather than being in the Clergy.
Ahh it looks they were part of the East India Company.
As Sophia said her 'husband' was Henry Philip Anderson when she registered her son in 1848, what about this? (not sure where I'm going! lol)
I was looking in FMP newspapers and saw an entry in the Newcastle Journal 03 November 1849 for the death of a child (Mary) at Bath Terrace, Tynemouth, infant daughter of the Rev Philip Anderson, Chaplain to the East India Company, Bombay Presidency.
As he was both a Rev and working for the EIA, I thought it might be worth looking at this Philip a bit more closely, despite Tynemouth being a long way from London.
This would appear to be the death of the child:
ANDERSON, MARY 0
GRO Reference: 1849 D Quarter in TYNEMOUTH UNION Volume 25 Page 364
and this is her birth (EDIT bap Newcastle 1849, confirms parents):
ANDERSON, MARY POTTS
GRO Reference: 1849 D Quarter in TYNEMOUTH UNION Volume 25 Page 472
Philip Anderson m Dorothy Potts in Q4 1841, Gateshead.
So I hoped to find them in 1851...
I haven't found Philip and Dorothy yet, but I have found the household of Dorothy's widowed mother, Ann Younghusband Potts:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8860/images/NBLHO107_2410_2410-0767?ssrc=&backlabel=Return&pId=14899878
There are three grandchildren listed, who I'm presuming are children of Philip and Dorothy:
Ann Paschal Anderson 6 b East Indies (EDIT b/bap FMP 1844 confirms parents)
Dorothy Mary Anderson 5 ditto (EDIT b/bap FMP 1845 ditto)
Phillip Edward Anderson 3 b Haworth (can't find a b registration, EDIT but Newcastle bap 1848 confirms parents)
The next people in the house are Edward Hussey Adamson and hs wife Anne. Their eldest child is Cuthbert Edward Adamson aged 2. Did someone think, "Ooh, Cuthbert, that's a nice name"?!! Probably a coincidence!?
There's probably little chance of finding Philip and Dorothy Anderson on the 1851 census as on 22 Dec 1851 they had another daughter in Colaba, India (and more children in India after 1851).
So, did Philip and Dorothy and their young family pass through London on their way up north, with Philip causing havock? Probably not, but if there was just the one child for Sophia then I could just about believe it. Of course we don't know that both children had the same biological father.
Having said that, this:
And he mentions just after he married in 1874 that he received a letter from England with his fathers ring
....would seem improbable if the father was married and had another family etc, but on the other hand, who sent the ring? Maybe Sophia had kept it for years (whoever her son's father was, Sophia is likely to be the source of the ring, surely)?
Maybe I'm straw clutching lol
Thoght I should plod on in case anything else came to light, which it didn't!...
Philip's death is recorded here:
Norfolk Chronicle 13 February 1858
On the 13th of Dec, at Bombay, the Rev. Philip Anderson, Chaplain of Colaba, near Bombay.
The Homeward Mail gives his age as in his 42nd year and the civil record on FMP has his cause of death as 'disease of the liver'.
Philip was bap in Bombay 02 Jan 1818, aged nearly 2 years, parents Thomas and Mary. His dob was given as 25 May 1816. By his bap date, his father, Thomas Anderson, was dec'd. He is recorded as a Captain in The Honorable Company's Military Service.
Philip organised the building of this church:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan_Church
but missed the consecration by a few months.
That will do for now.....
"Ooh, Cuthbert, that's a nice name"?!! Probably a coincidence!?
St Aidan, St Oswald and St Cuthbert are three saints of the North East. Wouldn't expect Devonian parents to choose Cuthbert as a name, but in Tynemouth it might spring readily to mind.
St Aidan, St Oswald and St Cuthbert are three saints of the North East. Wouldn't expect Devonian parents to choose Cuthbert as a name, but in Tynemouth it might spring readily to mind.
In this case we have a woman using it as her maiden name instead of Bousfield for unestablished reasons! She was London-based.
kiterunner
23-09-22, 15:11
My great-grandmother gave the surname Mascot as her maiden name on the birth cert for her fourth child and on her marriage to that child's father. We have no idea where she got that name from. There is nobody of that name in my tree. So Cuthbert may also be inexplicable.
We will just have to hope that William Cheek Bousfield's will explains how Margaret Rebekah Clara Anderson is his niece. Hopefully it will arrive soonish.
I think that there is a fair amount of fibbing going on, so trying to work it all out is almost impossible!
There is absolutely no sign of a Henry Philip Anderson, or a Sophia Minnie Cuthbert on Ancestry, FMP or Family Search.
I am sure that the Sophia Cuthbert b c1830, daughter of Henry and Jane, is the wrong one as I have probably found her with her husband and father Henry in later census.
I actually used to know a descendant of Octavius Bousfield and we are trying to track her down, she probably does not know anything, but she might have had her DNA tested, so many people have these days. There certainly are a number of Philip Cuthbert Andersons descendants who seem interested in their family tree so there may be some of their DNA out there.
If the will doesn't, then the death duty records should, as tax was paid at different rates, according to the relationship to the deceased.
These have to be ordered in advance, but are available at Kew.
maggie_4_7
24-09-22, 09:42
Something happened in 1910, 1894, 1874 and 1873 what does this all mean?
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/19647748:1904?tid=&pid=&queryId=5388457022ee002815f517f855d78b5d&_phsrc=IeP20672&_phstart=successSource
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/3369222:1904?tid=&pid=&queryId=5388457022ee002815f517f855d78b5d&_phsrc=IeP20672&_phstart=successSource
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/4508774:1904?tid=&pid=&queryId=ecf8e0983e62a4edd6da0ce5921d923f&_phsrc=IeP20746&_phstart=successSource
Rebecca, wife of William, Sophia Louisa and George teir children and others were due to hear somethig to their advantage in 1873: https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0000183%2f18730515%2f002&stringtohighlight=cheek%20bousfield
So there was another will swirling around, but that should not affect William's will.
Probably he had left money in trust, which changed on death of beneficiaries. Selby Heles were a dodgy lot. A Devonshire family whose ancestors dun my family out of their rightful inheritance.
maggie_4_7
24-09-22, 11:24
Rebecca, wife of William, Sophia Louisa and George teir children and others were due to hear somethig to their advantage in 1873: https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0000183%2f18730515%2f002&stringtohighlight=cheek%20bousfield
So there was another will swirling around, but that should not affect William's will.
Probably he had left money in trust, which changed on death of beneficiaries. Selby Heles were a dodgy lot. A Devonshire family whose ancestors dun my family out of their rightful inheritance.
Clara married a William Downes Selby Hele on 16 July 1873 just after William Cheek Bousfield's death.
There is no will, I asked for the 1873 one, and it is letters of administration and there was no will
The 1910 probate it says administration (with will), does that mean they found a will and I should have ordered that one?
It is the one to Selby Hele, who married William's "niece" Rebecca Clara Margaret Anderson
kiterunner
26-09-22, 21:43
The 1873 probate is definitely a will. It says "the Will of William Cheek Bousfield". Or did you order Rebekah's probate instead? That one is an administration.
No, it is definitely Williams.
What they sent me says
On the 17th day of June 1873 the will (then in hand writing)
A of William Cheek Bousfield late of number 12 Eldon Street in the Borough and County of Newcastle Upon Tyne, Gentleman who died on the 24th day of May 1873 at 12 Eldon street aforesaid was proved in the district registry attached to her Majesty's Court of Probate at Newcastle Upon Tyne by the oath of Margaret Rebekah Clara Anderson of Eldon Street aforesaid, spinster the niece of the said deceased and one of the Executors therein named she having been first sworn duly to administer. George Muras and William Eastern, the other executors and two of the residuary legatees in trust named in the said will having renounced the probate and execution thereof.
Then at the bottom of the page is written Further Grant PR June 1910
I also have a form letter from them saying they are unable to provide a copy of the will because this is a Grant of letters of Administration
Mary from Italy
27-09-22, 02:11
That can't be right.
Looking at the probate calendar, the one in 1873 was definitely a probate with a will, proved by MRC Anderson.
In 1894, limited administration was granted to Elizabeth Ann Story (no will mentioned).
In 1910 there was a further grant to William Downes Selby Hele; this was an administration with will annexed.
Presumably Margaret didn't finish administering the estate, or further assets came to light later. In any case, sending off for either the 1873 or 1910 grant should give you a copy of the will (probably the 1894 one too, although it isn't mentioned), so I would query what they're telling you.
maggie_4_7
27-09-22, 07:22
There is a piece in the London Gazette
https://www.thegazette.co.uk
PDF
2992 THE LONDON GAZETTE, JUNE 24, 1873.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/23991/page/2992/data.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjt4Z26t7T6AhWLCcAKHSv3AqIQFnoECA0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2VZ79bv8J8VjZAzldzS1BK
maggie_4_7
27-09-22, 11:28
There is quite a few entries I haven't read them.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notices/notice?service=all-notices&text=William+Cheek+Bousfield
Some are other Wiiliam Cheek Bousfields and the William Cheek Bousfield as acting solicitor.
The other William Cheek Bousfield is his father.
The 24 June 1873 entry certainly says the will was proved 17 June 1873 and that is the date of the paper they sent me. I will go back to them and include the link to the newspaper!
This is so frustrating!
They came back to me and said -
If there's a further grant then the grant associated with the will required ordering to enable us to provide you with a copy of the will.
So I have gone back in to order a copy of the 1910 grant which says (with will) on Ancestry. When I enter the 1910 date the probate site does not find anything, so I cannot order it because the order form only appears with the probate calendar image when it finds it.
I will go back to them again!
I searched for the person below him on the probate register, got an image associated with that, and then entered the details for William Cheek Bousfield instead when I finalised the order.
There are now 3 options for what happens next, I get the wrong will, I get the right will, and/or I confuse them completely!:d:d:d
Oh, for the good old days of Oscar!
No help to you, Chris, but when we ordered wills in the past, after we had paid at the little hatch, Oscar, a tall thin elderly man in grey, who viewed you above his spectacles as if you were the lowest form of life, took your order. Besides your completed request form, you had to bring the volume from which you had abstracted it, so he could check that the details were absolutely correct.
I found his meticulous precision terrifying, but a friend assured me that he was really a sweetie. However, one day they lost my application, had to resend it, and he pencilled my name down as Grenda! All credibilty lost!
kiterunner
30-09-22, 14:29
If you look at the latest Lost Cousins newsletter, there is a link through to a discussion of the probate service website where a lot of people seem to have been having similar problems with their orders.
Mary from Italy
01-10-22, 16:32
You may be able to get a copy of wills from the local Record Office, but it'll cost more.
I will see what happens from my latest application, and if that does not turn up anything I will give up for now. It is not my family, so I am only really looking because I am nosy and I don't like to leave an unsolved mystery in my work!:d:rolleyes:
My method worked and I have the correct will! He mentions his niece Margaret Rebekah Clara Anderson a number of times, but nowhere says just how she is his niece! So that does not help. Bother! At this point I give up.
maggie_4_7
04-10-22, 07:10
William Cheek Bousfield and Rebecca Richings had two sons named Henry both lived to adulthood.
Henry Robinson Bousfield born 1827 died 1857 in Hackney. The other named Henry Brougham Bousfield born 1832. Weird to name two sons Henry who both survived to adulthood.
There isn't much information on Henry Robinson but have you considered that he may be Henry Anderson and the two Anderson children's father rather than Sophia and this elusive Minnie Cuthbert died quite early on.
Just a thought, perhaps a daft thought though.
That sounds possible. Minnie Cuthbert could be a completely or partly made up name. What a pity we can't find her daughter in 1851.
maggie_4_7
04-10-22, 07:57
He did marry just before his death
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/6801437:1623?ssrc=pt&tid=119719142&pid=182059382001
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/5111/images/40611_311595-00210?pId=157563
Looks like in joined the Merchant Service
His masters cert
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/2271/images/31936_1831101456_0261-00002?pId=535009
But a tree online as him either marrying or having a relationship with a Sophia Jane Wellesley in Melbourne in 1854.
Interesting.
I've just realised there's a very good reason Clara is not on the 1851 census. Her bap says she was born 31st March and the census was taken on.....
30th March lol
So, you would think her mother might already be at Oval Cottages where Cuthbert Anderson is a visitor on the census:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8860/images/MDXHO107_1539_1539-1269?ssrc=&backlabel=Return
The other visitor is aged 48, so it would seem unlikely to be her. I wondered about Charlotte Garrett (or Angelina!)?
maggie_4_7
04-10-22, 09:02
Interesting.
I've just realised there's a very good reason Clara is not on the 1851 census. Her bap says she was born 31st March and the census was taken on.....
30th March lol
So, you would think her mother might already be at Oval Cottages where Cuthbert Anderson is a visitor on the census:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8860/images/MDXHO107_1539_1539-1269?ssrc=&backlabel=Return
The other visitor is aged 48, so it would seem unlikely to be her. I wondered about Charlotte Garrett (or Angelina!)?
Yes I think I saw her birthdate some time back and I mentioned it and why not on census but I couldn't always open the links because it was the Australian Ancestry and couldn't be bothered to faff about to go back and check as to why I said it.
Probably he had left money in trust, which changed on death of beneficiaries. Selby Heles were a dodgy lot. A Devonshire family whose ancestors dun my family out of their rightful inheritance.
I don't think that William Cheek Bousfield thought a lot of the Selby Heles either. In his will, if at the time of his death, his niece Margaret Rebekah Clara Anderson was married to William Heles without his permission, then she would get nothing. So she waited until after he died!
Interesting.
I've just realised there's a very good reason Clara is not on the 1851 census. Her bap says she was born 31st March and the census was taken on.....
30th March lol
So, you would think her mother might already be at Oval Cottages where Cuthbert Anderson is a visitor on the census:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8860/images/MDXHO107_1539_1539-1269?ssrc=&backlabel=Return
The other visitor is aged 48, so it would seem unlikely to be her. I wondered about Charlotte Garrett (or Angelina!)?
Minnie Anderson is probably here (hopefully I have made the link readable)
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=8860&h=253831&tid=&pid=&queryId=ef7d79de9ea20dfd2eadd99b8e6e6303&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Irh8263&_phstart=successSource&_gl=1*134tq2t*_ga*MTgzMDkzNjIyNC4xNjQ0NjI3NDkz*_ga _4QT8FMEX30*MTY2NDkyMTA2OC4zMzUuMS4xNjY0OTIxMTE0Lj AuMC4w
Hello fellow geneaologists
Just found this site and the Bousfield/Anderson ongoing mystery piqued my interest again
I am a descendant of Octavius L W Bousfield,but not done DNA.
Sorry should have added Sue B (Barnfather/Bousfield) from New Zealand
Interesting about the Selby Hele's
Welcome to the site SuzeeB from another Kiwi.
I must go back and read through the thread, I had forgotten about them!
Goodness, we did go round in circles! I never did solve the mystery of the parentage of Philip Cuthbert Anderson and how he might link to the Bousfield family!
Neither have I. Circles must get smaller over time surely LOL
Just to put this into the thread so it does not get lost
Clara Rebekah Margaret Anderson who married William Selby-Hele appears on the 1880 census in Iowa as Maggie RS, they have a son called William Cuthbert Selby Hele b c1875 Iowa
Margaret Selby-Hele died June 5 1882, buried Iowa
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