Talbot, Lumley & Webb Family Mysteries

[Blaquiere Talbot]

I want to thank everyone who helped me track down the mystery of my 3rd great-grandmother Seraphina Donclere and her daughter Charlotte Hunter. I still have two remaining mysteries which have eluded me for over 50 years!

1: Frederica Webb (nee Lumley) is my 2nd great-grandmother. She was born in Meerut, Bengal, India in 1814 to Godlip Lumley and Elizabeth Kempson. She married George Augustus Webb 1st March 1834 in Delhi, India. George Augustus served with the EIC Commissariat, built “The Mussoorie Club Hotel” in Mussoorie (now “The Himalaya Club”) and became a “Zamindar” on “The Manor” estate near Baraut (near Meerut). He was murdered by revolting Jats at “The Manor” on 10th June 1857 during the Bengal Army Mutiny. Frederica and her three youngest children were rescued by loyal servants and escaped by being painted in walnut juice and wearing Indian clothes. After the Mutiny their eldest son Augustus Philip Webb(e) took over the estate and when he died in 1919 it passed it onto his son Isambard Webb(e) who died there in 1963. His widow sold the estate to, incongruously, a Jat family and retired to England. The mystery is where did Frederica and her three youngest children go after the murder of her husband and what happened to her. I did find a death for a Frederica Webb in Newington, London in December 1859 which I doubt is her as her children all remained in India. Her Webb family tree can be found on Ancestry at “Talbot of Stone Castle”

2: Robert Talbot, Tailor, of East Greenwich, Kent. Robert is my 6th great-grandfather. He was born around 1670 but I can find no records. He married Marie (Mary?) Jones on the 18th April 1693 at St Alfege, East Greenwich. Both are “of this parish”. Their son Robert was born 11th August 1695 and christened at St Alfege. His father is listed as “Taylor”. His father died 22 March 1704 and was buried at St Alfege where he is described as “Taylor of East Lands”. He is not to be confused with Robert Talbott a tailor who also died in Greenwich but in 1744! I have a lot of information on Robert & Marie’s son Robert who attended Cambridge, became a Anglican priest and lived at Stratham House, Surrey and, later, Stone Castle, Kent. His Talbot family tree can be found on Ancestry at “Talbot of Stone Castle”

[Merry]

Well, that all sounds complicated! I can solve the easy bit though!!

I did find a death for a Frederica Webb in Newington, London in December 1859 which I doubt is her

You are correct. The death in Newington was for FW aged 35. She is very likely the wife of Henry Pagett Webb who she married in Newington in 1855, her maiden name being Hill. Henry P Webb remarried in 1860 and apears with his new wife in 1861.

I'm going to move this post to the Research board as you have more questions!

[kiterunner]

If you look on the British Newspaper Archive / Findmypast newspaper search, 13 Sep 1884 Indian Daily News has a notice transcribed by their OCR software as "Frederica Webb.. at Meerut on the 61h August, lilt ; widow at Mit tate Usurp Augustin (killed in the Meerut District iu ; daughter ol ..." You would need to pay to view the actual article to see the real wording.

[kiterunner]

Can you tell us how you know that Robert Talbot was born about 1670, please? Do burial records give his age at death, for instance?

[Merry]

Here's that newspaper clipping:

[Phoenix]

"Stratham" should read Streatham, a Surrey Parish.

According to the Church of England Database, Robert junior started in Beckenham, Kent, moved to Streatham, Surrey,appears to have been briefly in Ringmer, Sussex and finally in Stone, in Kent.

Since he is mentioned in the will of the Robert Talbot who died in 1744, I assume he must have been a cousin of some kind?

[Phoenix]

One of the problems about St Alphege, Greenwich, is that it is a parish bordering the Thames. You only have to look at the splendid church, and the amazing buildings of the naval college, to realised that it was sucking in a population from a very wide area. One of my Norfolk strays was married there, and a Portsmouth relation was sent to the school there. I recently visited Chelmsford cathedral and spotted a monument to a woman who was buried in Greenwich.

[ElizabethHerts]

One of the problems about St Alphege, Greenwich, is that it is a parish bordering the Thames. You only have to look at the splendid church, and the amazing buildings of the naval college, to realised that it was sucking in a population from a very wide area. One of my Norfolk strays was married there, and a Portsmouth relation was sent to the school there. I recently visited Chelmsford cathedral and spotted a monument to a woman who was buried in Greenwich.

I still have no idea why OH's 3x-great-grandfather William Evans Lamb married his second wife Mary Mallatratt at St Alphage, Greenwich in 1784. They were both from Huntingdonshire and there was no naval connection whatsoever.

[Blaquiere Talbot]

You guys are amazing!

Kiterunner: Many many thanks for Frederica. I assumed she remained in India but not where her husband was murdered. So Dehra Dun makes sense. I suspect a daughter was living there. More searching!

Kiterunner & Phoenix: As for Robert Talbot, Tailor of East Greenwich there is indeed a mystery - there are two of them! For years I assumed it was the one who died in 1744 but I very recently discovered he was an imposter! He was really Robert Turbitt 1690 - 1744 born in Hutton Henry, Monk Hesleden, Durham. A member of the Drapers but later changed his name to Talbot married Catherine Yates (not Marie Jones) and left Rev Robert a mourning ring. Very strange. My crazy guess is that he worked for my Robert Talbot as an apprentice and then took over the business and changed his name to Talbot to maintain the business - (I found the same in Hong Kong where my Indian tailor was "Sam the Tailor" - the 3rd generation to use that name!) If that happened to the Talbot Tailors then Turbitt would have known Rev Robert as they were very similar in age. As for his father's birth I am guessing. Rev Robert was born in 1695 so Robert Sr was probably born around 1670?

[Blaquiere Talbot]

Kiterunner: Thanks for the Frederica Webb(e) obit. However I cannot read the date re Gottlieb "Meerut District 18??"

[kiterunner]

18?9

[Blaquiere Talbot]

Kiterunner: Thanks for the Frederica Webb(e) obit. However I cannot read the date re Gottlieb "Meerut District 18??"

[Merry]

None of us can read a digit that hasn't appeared in the newspaper image!

You could try searching the British Newspaper Archive or FindMyPast for other entries in case you can find more information that way. I have looked for this particular notice in other available papers, but didn't find anything.

[Blaquiere Talbot]

I have been stuck on this for 50 years! My 6th great-grandfather was Robert Talbot, Tailor of East Greenwich. He was born about 1670 but no records. He married Marie Jones at St Alfege, Greenwich 18 April 1693. Both are "of this parish". Their son Robert Talbot (later Rev Robert of Stone Castle) was christened 11 Aug 1695 also at St Alfege. His father Robert is listed a "taylor". Robert Sr died 22 March 1704, East Greenwich, Kent, England and is buried at St Alfege's East Greenwich. He is listed as "Taylor of East Lands". St Alfege's think he may have been a churchwarden there. There is indeed a mystery - there are two Robert Talbots both "tailors" of Greenwich! For years I assumed my Robert was the one who died in 1744 but I very recently discovered he was an imposter! He was really Robert Turbitt 1690 - 1744 born in Hutton Henry, Monk Hesleden, Durham. A member of the Drapers but later changed his name to Talbot married Catherine Yates (not Marie Jones) and left Rev Robert a mourning ring. Very strange. My crazy guess is that he worked for my Robert Talbot as an apprentice and then took over the business and changed his name to Talbot to maintain the business - (I found the same in Hong Kong where my Indian tailor was "Sam the Tailor" - the 3rd generation to use that name!) If that happened to the Talbot Tailors then Turbitt would have known Rev Robert as they were very similar in age. As for his father's birth I am guessing. Rev Robert was born in 1695 so Robert Sr was probably born around 1670? I suspect the will of Robert Talbot died Greenwich 22 nd March 1703 or 1704 will hold the key. Any advice where I may find the will or any other documentation? Many thanks. Richard

[ElizabethHerts]

I suspect the will of Robert Talbot died Greenwich 22 nd March 1703 or 1704 will hold the key. Any advice where I may find the will or any other documentation? Many thanks. Richard

How do you know there was a will?

[kiterunner]

The burial record (St Alfege, Greenwich, 22 Mar 1703/4) says Robert Talbutt Taylor in East Lane, not "of East Lands".

[Merry]

He was really Robert Turbitt 1690 - 1744 born in Hutton Henry, Monk Hesleden, Durham.

What is your source for this information?

Have you been able to identify all those relations mentioned in his will?