robert girling

[bidston]

hello everyone

first post, recommended from another site, trying to trace my grandfather, robert girling, had a family in liverpool where myself and my dad were born, but married to mary jones in london - 4th june 1915, from 89 norbreck road, finsbury park

occupation - artist, father harry girling - superintendent, cant find him in london or liverppol anywhere, age 36 at marriage in 1915

complete mystery and difficult to solve, any help would be so appreciated, cheers

[kiterunner]

Hi and welcome to the forum, Bidston.

Who were the witnesses at Robert and Mary's wedding, please?

[bidston]

hi kiterunner, thanks for the welcome, the witnesses were alfred oger and m malloy, thanks

[Merry]

Hi Bidston and Welcome :)

Did Robert state he was a bachelor at the marriage?

Do you know what sort of artist he was? Do you have the birth or marriage cert for his child who was/is your parent? If yes, what occ was given for Robert then?

[bidston]

hi, yes he was a bachelor, on his marriage cert and my dads birth cert, he is down as artist, my mum said he was a landscape artist apparently, so the story goes, thanks

[kiterunner]

I've found a Robert John Girling born Foulsham, Norfolk, whose birth was registered Jan-Mar 1880 Aylsham district, father Henry or Harry but Henry's occupation on the censuses is Shoemaker not Supervisor. Henry died in 1901. It looks likely that Robert John was one of twins, the other one, John Robert, dying as a baby. That Robert is in Nuneaton, Warwickshire in 1911 but his occupation isn't artist.

[bidston]

hi, i think i have seen that one, not him i don't think, i looked for girlings in that area, it is a nightmare, seems to be the most common name. thanks

[Merry]

I wanted to know how soon they got to Liverpool, so looked for Girling/Jones births after 1915 in that area, but found none in the following 20 years. Was Mary not a spinster?

Do you know when they got to Liverpool?

Apologies if I don't reply again until much later as I really must get on with lunch! Back tonight...........

[kiterunner]

There is a thread of Bidston's on another forum which has more info - looks as if both of Robert and Mary's children were born in Liverpool before the marriage.

http://www.british-genealogy.com/forums/showthread.php?55268-marriage-edon-grove-islington

[bidston]

hi merry, enjoy your lunch, my dad was born in liverpool 4th july 1912, albert henry girling at 13 auburn road, tuebrook, father robert girling - artist, mother mary jones

have all the jones no problem, dads older brother robert frederick born 1910 in sheffield, thanks again

[kiterunner]

Right, so they could be in Sheffield on the 1911 census? I've been searching and searching the 1911 but no luck yet if that Robert born Norfolk isn't the right one (and it doesn't look likely to be him as he has a wife Fanny and baby son Reginald born Nuneaton!).

[bidston]

thanks kiterunner, this is the problem, they don't appear anywhere, in any census, been looking at this problem about 30 years now

[Margaret in Burton]

There are only three Robert Girling's of about the right age on the 1911 census.
All three are married.

I'll extend the age limit and look again.

[bidston]

thanks marg, appreciate it, he might have been a bigamist anyway, whatever the problem was no one would talk about it

[Margaret in Burton]

None of them were an artist though or anything vaguely like it.

[bidston]

thanks for looking anyway, the artist thing is a constant theme though, his great grandson is an artist in hawaii, must be in the family

[Merry]

thanks marg, appreciate it, he might have been a bigamist anyway


Just passing the computer, lol! The above is what I was thinking!

What do you know about Mary Jones? (I was wondering if she has been found on any census?)

Do you know when either of them died?

30 years?! Well, I have to admit my mystery of a vaguely similar nature is only 25 years old, so when we've done this one (:rolleyes:), maybe you could unravel mine for me!!!!!!!!

[Margaret in Burton]

Just passing the computer, lol! The above is what I was thinking!

What do you know about Mary Jones? (I was wondering if she has been found on any census?)

Do you know when either of them died?

30 years?! Well, I have to admit my mystery of a vaguely similar nature is only 25 years old, so when we've done this one (:rolleyes:), maybe you could unravel mine for me!!!!!!!!

Well what about my Peter Henry Harrison, he's been a mystery for just as long.

:D:D:D

[bidston]

merry, i will be happy to help but i don't have a good track record, i have all the jones side no problem, mary jones died 1960 in liverpool

[bidston]

hi marg, am sure i saw a record of peter henry harrison living with robert henry girling but cant remember where, oh dear, mystery solved, appreciate you looking though

[Merry]

Do you know when/where Mary Jones was born?

Have both the adresses (your dad's birthplace and his older brother's birthplace been checked in 1911? There seems to be a family called Curry at 13 Auburn Road, but I don't have full access to the 1911.

*puts lunch in heated oven*

[bidston]

hi merry, someone else did a search for 13 auburn road and found a mary hartnell, mary jones was born in widnes, have all her family already, all addresses checked, no details

who's pat lunch!

[Margaret in Burton]

hi merry, someone else did a search for 13 auburn road and found a mary hartnell, mary jones was born in widnes, have all her family already, all addresses checked, no details

who's pat lunch!

13 Auburn Road is George Curry and family in 1911. He's a tailor originally from Ireland

[bidston]

thanks marg, different to previous info, can you do a general search for auburn road in case they were somewhere else, thanks

[Margaret in Burton]

Yes I can, what surname am I looking for in Auburn Road?I've lost track

[bidston]

you sound like me, i am not sure if i have the right surname, i might be a turner apparently, my grandfather sometimes used an alias, the names i need are girling or turner, many thanks

[Margaret in Burton]

Just checked the whole of Auburn Road, No names at all that you have mentioned.

[bidston]

thanks marg, cant imagine why its on his birth certificate

[Margaret in Burton]

thanks marg, cant imagine why its on his birth certificate

That just means that they weren't there on the night the 1911 census was taken.
What date is the birth cert?

Apologies if I have missed that bit.

edit, just found it. 1912. Obviously moved there after the census

[bidston]

4th july 1912

[Merry]

Was Robert F Girling born right in Sheffield in 1910, or just in that registration district?

What was his date of birth?

[kiterunner]

Have you ever tried looking to see whether Robert Girling (senior) left a will, Bidston?

[bidston]

to kiterunner, we are not the type of family who leave wills, nice thought
to merry, robert frederick girling, 22 aug 1910, south sheffield

thanks all

[Merry]

So, Robert (F) may have been listed as 7 or 8 months on the 1911 census.

Might have a look later if Marg doesn't beat me to it.

[Margaret in Burton]

I've look on the 1911 census for him in the name of Turner and Girling. I can't find him. Can't find the son who was born in 1910 either.

[bidston]

blimey, its a bit competitive, i have definitely come to the right place

[Margaret in Burton]

to kiterunner, we are not the type of family who leave wills, nice thought
to merry, robert frederick girling, 22 aug 1910, south sheffield

thanks all

Is he Girling on his birth cert? If Mary didn't know she would be a Girling until just before her wedding (1915) then surely the children wouldn't be Girling. They would be Turner or even registered in her name of Jones?


Just checked, Yes he is in the name of Girling. She must have known what Robert's name was then.

[Margaret in Burton]

blimey, its a bit competitive, i have definitely come to the right place

No we're not competitive, just all do things at the same time :D:D

[bidston]

merry, you were right, marg is replying to my posts as i am writing them, spooky, thank you both for your efforts, i am baffled by why they don't appear also, i put my own name in once and got no results, quite upset me, came over all unwanted, i think they are not all too complete

[kiterunner]

The fully-indexed BMD indexes on ancestry didn't used to be complete if that's what you mean, but they should be now, though of course there are some mistakes. The indexes were available before, though, but you had to wade through lots of pages to find the right entry.

[Margaret in Burton]

Well you won't find your own name on the census unless you are very old.

Birth registrations should be on Ancestry now. Some are mistranscribed.

[bidston]

marg, it was my mother who didnt know what her name would be, she knew my dad as albert turner and his mum as mrs turner

apparently a couple of days before her mother said - you wont be mary turner when you get married, its some funny name like that german bloke goering or something, frightened the life out of my mother

she was the youngest of 14 and always the baby, she never told her dad she was getting married, on the day, dad came home from work and asked where his little girl was, when mum told him he got up and put his coat on to go fetch her, gran had to talk him out of it

sometimes i wish he had, ha

[Merry]

marg, it was my mother who didnt know what her name would be, she knew my dad as albert turner and his mum as mrs turner

apparently a couple of days before her mother said - you wont be mary turner when you get married, its some funny name like that german bloke goering or something, frightened the life out of my mother



Could it be that Mary Jones/Girling was living with a Mr Turner later in life and the whole family took his name? I see Mary Jones/Girling was registered as Girling for death (who registered her death?)

Have you got Robert Girling's death cert?


This site is always like this, bidston! Have a look at another thread on this board about Richard Wright and you will see what I mean! I don't think we are competitive either; just trying to get a result and it's easier to do if you blast away as it's difficult to remember someone elses tree details over a prolonged spell, but easier over a few hours and you don't go doing the same lookups time and again!

Back this evening......

[Margaret in Burton]

Agree with Merry. I tend to read a post and then go off looking for something. Most of the info in that post will have flown off somewhere and I have to keep checking back. The longer that thread gets the harder it gets to remember.
Your own tree, things stick in your memory someone elses doesn't so you'll have to forgive us it we keep asking you to remind us.

[Margaret in Burton]

I've looked for him as Robert Turner too and still can't find him.

[bidston]

ladies, am only joking with you, appreciate the attention and speed of reply, no problem asking questions, the more the better, understand what you mean about following a thread, i get lost and its my family, appreciate your efforts

i was a bit suspicious with him having the same forename and artist as well, i thought maybe granddaddy was dodging the debt collector or something

death registered by her son, my cousin, he's as demented as i am,

have sent for a certificate of death for robert henry girling, 1940, liverpool north only problem is the age is wrong but someone suggested it might be transcribrd wrong

[Margaret in Burton]

Just looked at the actual image for that death and the age is 82

[bidston]

i know but everything else is right, anyway we will see if i get the certificate or not

[Merry]

That death may belong to this man:

Births Jun 1857
Girling Robert Henry Wangford 4a 689

[Uncle John]

Wangford is Norfolk isn't it? (The singer Hank Wangford borrowed it for his stage name). Relevant or not?

[Merry]

Only because a lot of Girlings seems to be from Norfolk/Suffolk.

[Merry]

bidston, have you investigated this birth at all?

Births Sep 1911
Girling Birt R Jones Aston 6d 461

[Margaret in Burton]

To quote Alice in Wonderland:

Curiouser and Curiouser
:confused::confused:

[kiterunner]

There are quite a few Girling / Jones births in Aston so I wouldn't think they are connected to Robert? Or am I missing something?

[bidston]

hi all

interesting finding a birt jones, i have been looking at mary jones siblings trying to figure out which one used the name bert, the reason being my mum had a picture of a variety artist named bert bray who is buried in the variety artists cemetery in i think highbury or highgate, granny jones says it was her brother, i think he died very young in the 1930's

aston is birmingham though, i think, and he is born a bit late, perhaps not a brother but a child born out of wedlock, in my mums family the dunnes, her sister had a baby at 15 and he was brought up as a child of the family but eventually found out his sister was his mum and his mum was his granny, affected him badly

it never occurred to me to look back at age 82 and search for a birth, this is why i came here, expert input

[Merry]

He isn't a Birt Jones, he is a Birt Girling with mmn Jones!

I think you should get this certificate to see who he parents are purported to be.

[Merry]

There are quite a few Girling / Jones births in Aston so I wouldn't think they are connected to Robert? Or am I missing something?

Whoops, missed this post. I don't know why I only found the one then?

Presumably not connected then as he didn't die until:

Name: Bert Reuben Girling
Birth Date: 1 Jul 1911
Death Registration Month/Year: Jan 1995
Age at death (estimated): 83
Registration district: Birmingham
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Register number: C73A
District and Subdistrict: 0611C
Entry number: 171

by the look of it.

[bidston]

yes, that's birmingham for sure, not one of mine, incidentally would there be a forum for variety artists

[Margaret in Burton]

yes, that's birmingham for sure, not one of mine, incidentally would there be a forum for variety artists

I thought you said he was a landscape artist??:confused::confused:

You have realised that painter could be changed over the generations haven't you. Starts out as a painter and decorator and ends up painting pictures. It happens believe me.

If you do find a forum for variety artists let me know. Grandfather's brother was *on the stage*. Gone missing but that's another story.

[Olde Crone]

Margaret

I think Bidston is referring to Bert Bray, who was the variety artist. Robert Girling was the landscape painter.

This is possibly a step too far, but is it possible that the surname Girling WAS of foreign origin - Guerlain, for one example? Or was the relative who referred to him as Goering, lol, just a bit deaf?

OC

[bidston]

hi marg

on british geneology they have an actors and artists forum under occupations

you missed a thread , bert bray was the actor, mary jones brother, forget about him

lets not have any defeatist talk, he wasn't a wallpaper hanger

[bidston]

hi old crone, a bit daft as well as a bit deaf, i looked up the yellow pages for suffolk, girlings are estate agents, car dealers , butchers, insurance agents, you name it in suffolk there is a girling that does it, if i ever end up having to search suffolk its game over for sure, its the most common name

[Margaret in Burton]

hi old crone, a bit daft as well as a bit deaf, i looked up the yellow pages for suffolk, girlings are estate agents, car dealers , butchers, insurance agents, you name it in suffolk there is a girling that does it, if i ever end up having to search suffolk its game over for sure, its the most common name

Oh no it's not, my Mortlock's are.

[Mary from Italy]

Don't know how reliable this site is, but they reckon Girling derives from "coeur de lion" (lionheart):

http://www.surnamedb.com/surname.aspx?name=girling

[bidston]

hi mary, thank you for that generous post, i looked for years to find out what my name meant, i eventually found an old book containing old english names, it had girling, yippee, girling - seller of fish, derived from codling, gutted

[bidston]

sorry marg but every tom, dick and harry are called girling

[Merry]

Can someone with good eyes have a look at this on Ancestry?

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1518&iid=30807_A001161-00251&fn=Robert&ln=Girling&st=d&ssrc=&pid=30236721

Does that say Painter for occupation, with the bottom of the A missing?

And what's the address in London E10?

[maggie_4_7]

I think its Painter.

and it looks like Carnavon Rd.

[Merry]

So this one? :)

27 Carnarvon Rd, Waltham Forest, London E10 6DW, UK

[Merry]

So this one? :)

27 Carnarvon Rd, Waltham Forest, London E10 6DW, UK

There's a good street view on Google Maps. You can see number 39 and 27 would be to the right down the street.

[kiterunner]

Ooh, well spotted, Merry!

[Macbev]

Looks more like 'printer' to me, sorry.

[bidston]

blimey, whats everyone looking at , i cant get access to it, suspense is killing me

[Macbev]

blimey, whats everyone looking at , i cant get access to it, suspense is killing me

UK Incoming Passenger list, 1938 'Grantully Castle' Southampton
Robert Girling, 62, intended residence 27 Carnarvon (?) Road, London; Printer (painter?), last residence England

[bidston]

that's interesting, age is not too far out, wonder where he arrived from

[Macbev]

Looks as though the ship was coming from various ports in Africa- Beira, Mozambique, Lourenco Marques, Durban, East London, Port Elizabeth, Cape Town and Tenerife....could have embarked from any of those places.

[bidston]

hi macbev, thanks for that, will try a search on the address

[Merry]

Printer was what I thought it said to start with, which is why I was after opinions.

[Merry]

Hmmm....on the 1911 there's a RG who is a printer (or has that word transcribed in his occ) and is same age as the guy on the ship. I still can't decide what that says 100% on the passenger list, and I can't view the 1911 census to see the handwriting their either lol

[Merry]

Hmmm, well the one on the 1911 census is Robert Daniel Girling and on the 1881 his father is John a Printers Manager and hisbrother is a compositor, so he must be a printer not a painter. He seems to have had a regular life of one birth, one marriage and one death and likely one trip abroad, returning on the 'Grantully Castle'.

Oh well. :(

[bidston]

oh dear, not him then, thanks anyway