searching for a aubrey arnold hurst

[Qwackers]

Aubrey arnold hurst was born approx 1913 in bombay . he married odette martha alcouffe in marseille in 1943 . he is a navigator on the marriage certificate . Would like to trace his family and perhaps his military record ? any help gratefully received . i've tried to log in to india births on Family but with no success , don't no if there's a problem or not as it keeps coming up with an error message ? thanks

[Qwackers]

Aubrey parents were arthur and ida hurst .

[ElizabethHerts]

His baptism is on FMP.

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=BL%2FBIND%2F005137723%2F00341&parentid=BL%2FBIND%2FB%2F425351

Baptised 31 Aug 1915 Byculla,Christ Church
Said to be born 27 Nov 1913
Father: Arthur
Mother: Ida

Profession: Weaving expert Burma Government

[Qwackers]

thanks for that ,i can't use find my past .

[kiterunner]

His military record won't be online because it will be too recent. You would have to apply to the MOD. But we might be able to find some information.

[kiterunner]

Can you explain what you mean by tracing his family, please? Forwards or backwards?

[ElizabethHerts]

No image, but a transcription:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:HGN1-XBPZ

[Qwackers]

The Marseille roundup was the systematic deportation of the Jews of Marseille in the Old Port between 22 and 24 January 1943 under the Vichy regime during the German occupation of France. Assisted by the French police, directed by René Bousquet, the Germans organized a raid to arrest Jews. The police checked the identity documents of 40,000 people, and the operation sent 2,000 Jews first to Fréjus, then to the camp of Royallieu near Compiègne, in the Northern Zone of France, and then to Drancy internment camp, last stop before the extermination camps. The operation also encompassed the expulsion of an entire neighborhood (30,000 persons) before its destruction. Located in the Old Port, the 1st arrondissement was considered by the Germans to be a "terrorist nest" because of its small, windy and curvy streets[3] For this occasion, SS leader Carl Oberg, in charge of the German Police in France, made the trip from Paris, and transmitted to Bousquet orders directly received from Himmler. It is a notable case of the French police's collaboration with the German occupiers.

[Qwackers]

I didn't realise the germans were already in Marseille . and they destroyed a lot of property , They kept the wealthy areas . but they had a new ideology to create a new urban city , with the french Mayor .So i don't know what happened to aubrey and his wife . if they had children i may not find out who they are as they have the same non disclosure policy's for a 100 years . thanks

[Qwackers]

Marseillle was liberated in 1944 by the free french forces .

[garstonite]

Can I ask - was Odette - Odette Marthe Marie Alcouffe - Auriol Buches de Rhone ,France ?

I wonder if this man is related ?
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2177365/hurst,%20frederick%20alexander/

[Qwackers]

hi Garstonite , yes. she was francois marcellin daughter .i have been using geneanet france and a french member for bouches du rhone has found a great lot of stuff about the family whilst they were in marseille .francois had three daughters born in uganda ,i hadn't realised that .renee leona ,marthe marie and odette marthe I have got all their marriages and a couple of divorces in marseille . This premium member is going to search the marseille archives in person for me in april for more info ,which is very kind of him . They probably had children and i'm hoping to find out more next month . So using the french site was fortuitous.I had to write in french with translations but it was worth it . So for any one researching french ancestry it's a great site . thanks

[Qwackers]

she married aubrey hurst in [marseille france in 1935 and divorced him in 1945 . he could have been buried in india .

[Qwackers]

Hi to all its been sometime since ive been on the site , my husband had a accident so a lot of my time has been taken up , I was searching for aubrey arnold Hursts parents ida and arthur Hurst .Aubrey ws born in india , married in Marselles to odette marthe alcouffe in 1935 , he was a navigator at the time of his marriage . they were divorced a few years later . I had a subscription to ancestry which hs now lapsed ,so cant check on there at present . I did search for a ida and arthur and it came up with a few ida s in Leicester ,but as yet not been able to positively identify them . Arthur was a weaving expert on Aubreys birth-in India . So any help would be gratefuly received . thanks

[kiterunner]

There is an Arthur D Hurst / Ida Broughton marriage in 1913 in Leicester on FreeBMD. Jul-Sep 1913 vol 7a p 509 if you want to order the certificate.

[Qwackers]

Hi Kite , i will look at that and see if i can order it thanks x

[Mary from Italy]

Assuming Kite has found the right couple, here's some more information.

There's an entry in the probate calendar on Ancestry for Arthur Donald Hurst of Great Glen, Leicestershire, who died in 1963. One of the executors was Arthur Reginald Frederick Hurst.

This will be Arthur D's death:

Deaths Dec 1963
HURST ARTHUR D / 75 / LEICESTER 3A 664

and Arthur Reginald's birth:

Births Jun 1916
Hurst Arthur R F / mmn Broughton / Leicester 7a 537

And this is probably Ida's death:

Deaths Dec 1961
HURST Ida / 76 / Leicester 3a 645

[Mary from Italy]

I don't think this is the right family.

They had two children born in England, and the whole family are together on the 1921 census and 1939 register. Arthur Donald was a boot and shoe buyer.

[Qwackers]

Hi ,yes i understand what your saying , as the ida and arthur i have found on Family search seem to have nothing to do with India and its never mentioned in the sources . for their family When aubrey arnold married odette in Marseilles it does mentions parents as ida and Arthur i also seem to remember they have another son who also marries in Marseilles . so the ida and arthur we have found may not be correct. but Ida seems tobe an unusual name and not as common as other names . But im not good at collating stuff , soi may be wrong .lol

[Qwackers]

Hi Mary , Yes on the family on Family search it does state that arthur is a boot and shoe buyer and not a weaving expert . ?

[kiterunner]

Okay, looking at FamilySearch, your Arthur and Ida had some other children in India: William Ethelstone Hurst baptised 11 Mar 1906 Bombay; Marguerite Hurst baptised 19 Mar 1917 Mandalay, Bengal. So their marriage should be in or before 1906.

[Qwackers]

Thanks Kite , i will check it out X

[Qwackers]

Hi , I have looked for a marriage on Free BMD but couldn't find one for ida and arthur Hurst . The lady with the Hurst tree with an ida Hurst on Family search says aubrey as nothing to do with her ancestors , and also says that they were not connected to India So their tree isnt any help . I once saw a tree im sure with william ethelstone Hurst ,on Ancestry , but i cant check it anymore . I found williams birth on ancestry . There is nothing to say where ida was actually from ,so will have to investigate more .

[Qwackers]

Im wondering if arthur and Ida could have got married in India as some couples did ?

[kiterunner]

I had a look on FamilySearch for their marriage but I couldn't find anything. I guess Ethelstone might be a family surname used as a middle name so that might be a clue.

[Qwackers]

yes Kite , your right , it could be a great clue ,

[Merry]

Is this Ida's husband?


Name Arthur Ethelstone Hurst
Gender Male
Age 38
Birth Date 1882
Death Date 27 Apr 1920
Burial Date 27 Apr 1920
Burial Place Rangoon, Bengal, India
FHL Film Number 527919

[Qwackers]

I thought ida's husband was arthur Donald but not sure ? I found another hurst a eva M who married a gardener in a punjab army marriage . I think she was a teacher she may or may not be part of the hurst Clan ?

[Qwackers]

That should be married a george Gardner in 1920 . in the punjab.

[Merry]

I thought ida's husband was arthur Donald but not sure ?

Ok, well could be some other relation, maybe?

[kiterunner]

Arthur Donald Hurst was the wrong person - see posts #17 and #18. I don't think your Arthur has a middle name on his children's baptism records but the burial that Merry found could well be him.

[kiterunner]

I thought ida's husband was arthur Donald but not sure ? I found another hurst a eva M who married a gardener in a punjab army marriage . I think she was a teacher she may or may not be part of the hurst Clan ?

FamilySearch has Eva Marie Hurst married George Herbert Gardner and her father was William Charles Hurst, not Arthur.

[kiterunner]

From the free search on the British Newspaper Archive:

Englishman's Overland Mail 31 Dec 1913: The services of Mr Arthur E. Hurst, Assistant Principal, Serampore Weaving Institute, are placed temporarily at the disposal of the Government of Burma...

[kiterunner]

I found the India Office List for 1922 on the Internet Archive, and in that year the Principal of the Serampore Weaving Institute was E. Hoogewerf and the Assistant Principal was Ashutosh Guha, so that would fit with Arthur dying in 1920.

[kiterunner]

Also found on the Internet Archive - the Quarterly Civil List for Bengal (1914) No. 193, which has
OFFICERS NOT WITHIN THE CLASSIFIED LIST
Arthur E. Hurst, L.T.M.
Date of first appointment to Education Department: 30-11-1910
Present appointment: Asst. Principal, Serampore Weaving Institute
Remarks: Services placed at the disposal of the Govt. of Burma for 6 mos. from 4-1-1914. (Mr Lakshman G Pradham apptd sub pro tem Asst Principal from 4-1-1914.)

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.41111/page/n279/mode/2up?q=%22arthur+e%22

and from The Collegian Vol. 1:
Mr. Arthur Hurst is appointed to be Assistant Principal of the Serampore Weaving School from the 27th November 1911.

[kiterunner]

Ah, and if you use F5 to find each appearance of the name Hurst in the document linked to below (a PDF), you will see that your Mr Hurst did indeed die in 1920:

file:///C:/Users/kater/Downloads/The%20Transformation%20of%20Weaving%20in%20Myanmar %20from%20the%20Tradition%20to%20the%20Modernity%2 0and%20Its%20Impact.pdf

[Merry]

Arthur Donald Hurst was the wrong person - see posts #17 and #18. I don't think your Arthur has a middle name on his children's baptism records but the burial that Merry found could well be him.

Ah, OK, I hadn't read the whole thread back :o

[Qwackers]

Thank you Kite your a star , you always come up trumps , great work . x

[Qwackers]

hi , all i've managed to look back at some interesting facts, regards to the Hursts William Ethelstone Hurst , born in 1806 in mumbai to ida and arthur Hurst , was married in marseilles in 1933 to marie therese renee Parent . there was a sibling Eric Hurst born 1908 in bombay , he marries in Marseilles in 1938 to marie Rose Decugis. we also have Aubrey arnold mentioned marrying odette marthe Alcouffe in 1935 .in Marseilles . so it seems part of the family could have been living in Marseilles around the time .

[kiterunner]

Have you tried searching for Ida's death in the Marseilles indexes?

[Qwackers]

Hi , no i haven't tried that yet i found passenger lists for eric and aubrey to marseilles from England Eric states he is an insurance official . I will see if i can ida on the marseilles lists .

[Qwackers]

Hi cant find the indexes for marseilles , I usually use geananet but cant find much on there at present .

[kiterunner]

Oh, sorry, it seems that the online indexes for Marseille only go up to 1904 so far. I was assuming they must go up to much later than that since you said you had found marriages in the 1930's.

https://www.archives13.fr/archive/recherche/etatcivil/n:64

[Qwackers]

Hi , Kite , I was lucky , a French user on the site helped me back them and found the marriages , I would have never found them without their help . I have only ever used the archives in aveyron , but will see if i can access them .

[Qwackers]

The french guy who found my marriages in Marseilles , searched for me for the hursts re marriages / deaths and couldn't find anything relating to them in France

[Qwackers]

Hi , I am searching For Marguerite Hurst , another child of Arthur and Ida , Born-in India in 1917 , I cant find her after her birth using Family Search , and it could help with the search for more info on the Hursts ? thanks

[Qwackers]

I did find a marriage for a marguerite hurst in westminster , but i cant say thats her . i dont know if she came to the UK or not ?

[Merry]

Arthur and Ida had a daughter, Marguerite, who was born 20 Jan 1916 at Mandalay in Bengal.

She died 23 Mar 1917 of dysentery and was buried the same day.

[Qwackers]

Oh , what a shame , thanks merry

[Qwackers]

The record i found for marguerite said she was born march 1917, do you think thats the same girl who died or did they have another girl the same name ? thanks

[Qwackers]

Sorry merry the record i've looked at says she was born in Jan 1916 and baptism 17th of march 1917 , so ive got it wrong .

[Qwackers]

Sorry merry , its the same girl , so it is her burial , i need toclean my specs lol

[Qwackers]

I thought i could find children of aubrey arnold and odette , as they could have had children after their marriage in Marseilles but i think they are not online for perhaps A hundred years , so i wont be-able to find any of the relatives of the alcouffes , Such a shame unless somebody knows how to find them another way ? Odette had two marriages in Marseilles and she could have had children . throughout that time .

[Qwackers]

Hi all , Haven't been on the site for some time , due to illness . But have started to search again for Ida and arthur Hurst . I have copied this from info i have from the geneanet Evelyne Marie Thérèse Renée PARENT 1913 married January 28, 1933 (Saturday), Marseille, Bouches-du-Rhône, Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur, FRANCE, to William Ethelstone HURST, born January 13, 1906 (Saturday) - Mumbaï / Bombay, Maharashtra, INDIA, deceased, Maître d'Hôtel à Marseille (Parents : M Arthur HURST ca 1880- & F Ida HURST ca 1880-) It may help to find his parents ida and Arthur , there is also a marriage for eric and , arnold hurst in Marseilles thanks

[Qwackers]

I havent been able to find either ida or arthur on the site in france later . But i am thinking they may have settled there as three of their sons married in Marseilles .will try and check the french site again .

[Merry]

I thought Arthur most likely died in India in 1920?

[Qwackers]

Hi Kite , yes i think you are right , thanks .

[Qwackers]

Sorry ,that should have been thanks Merry lol