Hard to Read Age and Occupation

[maggie_4_7]

Can anyone read George White's age and occupation, with wife Mary at 2 Cottage Place?

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=8767&h=5958179&ssrc=pt&tid=1310698&pid=422317646751&usePUB=true&_gl=1*16ee7w*_ga*NjM1MjM2MDM2LjE2NDQ2MDIyODk.*_ga_ 4PXYE4RLH1*MTY0NzE5Nzk1NS43MC4xLjE2NDcxOTgwNTkuMA. .

Edited to change link to .co.uk

[kiterunner]

His age looks like 21 to me although Ancestry have transcribed it as 31. Occupation: Waiter at Public House.

[Merry]

The link didn't work for me, but I found them anyway and I agree with Kate. Also, they were both aged 30 on the following census.

[maggie_4_7]

His age looks like 21 to me although Ancestry have transcribed it as 31. Occupation: Waiter at Public House.

Thanks I would never have got that.

The link didn't work for me, but I found them anyway and I agree with Kate. Also, they were both aged 30 on the following census.

Thank you.

I couldn't find them on another census.

[Phoenix]

After finally, and proudly, making out Chelsea Out Pensioner, I realised I was looking at the previous household :o


So, wot Kite says!

[maggie_4_7]

The link didn't work for me, but I found them anyway and I agree with Kate. Also, they were both aged 30 on the following census.

Have you got a link for this census.

[Merry]

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7619/images/LNDRG10_570_572-0025?backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=bbfa441a7a14272adeaa2306db7c30bf&pId=12331047

George and Mary married in 1860:

Marriages Dec 1860
Crossley Mary Ann Poplar 1c 1053
White George Poplar 1c 1053

[maggie_4_7]

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7619/images/LNDRG10_570_572-0025?backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=bbfa441a7a14272adeaa2306db7c30bf&pId=12331047

George and Mary married in 1860:

Marriages Dec 1860
Crossley Mary Ann Poplar 1c 1053
White George Poplar 1c 1053

Thank you. I still don't know if I have the right George, it's probably a fruitless quest.

[Merry]

Because your 1861 link didn't work for me I had to look elsewhere to find out who you were looking for and that came from an old thread saying this:

Found Thomas' birth under Sayer born 13 Nov 1861 • 2 Cottage Place mother Caroline Sayer father George Wyatt bricklayer. Haven't found Thomas again but he was registered in Shoreditch but 2 Cottage Place was in Poplar and a George White is living there with his wife Mary in 1861!

I didn't really study the opening post in that thread at the time, because I was only interested in finding on which census you were looking for George White transcribed as 31 with a wife Mary.

Now I've read it again, still probably not properly, it sounds as if you are thinking 2 Cottage Place in Shoreditch is the same address as 2 Cottage Place in Poplar (Bromley St Leonard), but surely it can't be? I also haven't yet understood why you were interested in George White in any case? I wasn't sure if it was him you were following or just the person at the place where Thomas Sayer was born later in the year?

If it's the address, then Thomas was probably born where these people were living:

1861 census, 2, Cottage Place Hoxton, St Leonards Shoreditch, London & Middlesex

Jeremiah Banes head married 40 porter b Colchester, Essex
Esther Banes wife married 44 b Shoreditch, Middlesex
Thomas Banes son 14 Errand b Aldgate, Middlesex
Esther Banes dau unm 19 shirt maker b St George in the East, Middlesex

Maybe I've missed the point, but the opening post on the old thread was too difficult for before all my morning mugs of tea. :D

[maggie_4_7]

Because your 1861 link didn't work for me I had to look elsewhere to find out who you were looking for and that came from an old thread saying this:



I didn't really study the opening post in that thread at the time, because I was only interested in finding on which census you were looking for George White transcribed as 31 with a wife Mary.

Now I've read it again, still probably not properly, it sounds as if you are thinking 2 Cottage Place in Shoreditch is the same address as 2 Cottage Place in Poplar (Bromley St Leonard), but surely it can't be? I also haven't yet understood why you were interested in George White in any case? I wasn't sure if it was him you were following or just the person at the place where Thomas Sayer was born later in the year?

If it's the address, then Thomas was probably born where these people were living:

1861 census, 2, Cottage Place Hoxton, St Leonards Shoreditch, London & Middlesex

Jeremiah Banes head married 40 porter b Colchester, Essex
Esther Banes wife married 44 b Shoreditch, Middlesex
Thomas Banes son 14 Errand b Aldgate, Middlesex
Esther Banes dau unm 19 shirt maker b St George in the East, Middlesex

Maybe I've missed the point, but the opening post on the old thread was too difficult for before all my morning mugs of tea. :D

I was interested because a George Wyatt is named as Thomas Sayer's father and Thomas was born at 2 Cottage Place Shoreditch. I could not find a Cottage Place in Shoreditch.

But you have found one so this is the wrong George, have you a link for that 1861 census please, Merry.

[Merry]

I found it on FMP, but here it is on Ancestry:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8767/images/MDXRG9_237_241-0868?ssrc=&backlabel=Return&pId=5545926

[Merry]

I'm struggling with ths part from the other thread as the link won't work for me:

Martha Sayer 1855 birth certificate has Henry Dunn as father but then crossed out born 2 New North Street her mother Elizabeth's address on a workhouse admission.

Henry Dunn Sayer born 1857 no father named but I am guessing Henry Dunn was both Martha and Henry's father by Henry's name.

All three on 1861 census:-

https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/...30&usePUB=true

Please can you point me in the right direction for the 1861 census, as I can't find them!

[maggie_4_7]

I'm struggling with ths part from the other thread as the link won't work for me:



Please can you point me in the right direction for the 1861 census, as I can't find them!


Sorry I spend a lot of time on .com for world records especially Australia, NZ and USA.

Here it is .co.uk

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=8767&h=5518751&ssrc=pt&tid=1310698&pid=-941828330&usePUB=true&_gl=1*w78hci*_ga*NjM1MjM2MDM2LjE2NDQ2MDIyODk.*_ga_ 4PXYE4RLH1*MTY0NzI0MjEyMC43MS4xLjE2NDcyNDY4OTIuMA. .

[Merry]

Thanks Maggie, now I can't remember what I was wondering about in connection with that census!!

[maggie_4_7]

Thanks Maggie, now I can't remember what I was wondering about in connection with that census!!

:d

I hope you remember I'd like to know too.

[maggie_4_7]

Edited links and updated this thread

http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=30108

[Merry]

Oooh, thanks. I will remember, just have to wait until i'm thinking about something else! lol

Just cleaning my lounge for the first time in ages. Finding Christmas tinsel bits under the sofa cushions!

[maggie_4_7]

Oooh, thanks. I will remember, just have to wait until i'm thinking about something else! lol

Just cleaning my lounge for the first time in ages. Finding Christmas tinsel bits under the sofa cushions!

:d :d

[Merry]

I haven't managed to do anything with that 1861 census, whatever I was thinking about before!

Do you know who Henry Dunn was?

Have you found Martha after the 1861 census?

[maggie_4_7]

I haven't managed to do anything with that 1861 census, whatever I was thinking about before!

Do you know who Henry Dunn was?

Have you found Martha after the 1861 census?


I thought this might be her but birth place has been transcribed as On the Sea :rolleyes:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/29030737:7619?ssrc=pt&tid=1310698&pid=24668850591

But she was alive in 1879, a witness at brother's wedding:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/2974555:1623?ssrc=pt&tid=1310698&pid=24668850592

That's it nothing after that.

Edit to say: sorry I forgot, I have no idea who Henry Dunn was there are a couple in the area if I recall.

So:

Henry and Martha's father - Henry Dunn.
Thomas' father - George Wyatt.
Frederick, Jane, Elizabeth and Caroline probably - James Gilbert bootmaker, who they thought was James Sayer bootmaker which is the name on their marriage certs.

Don't know what happened to Thomas no idea where Martha is after 1879.

[Merry]

Did Henry Dunn have an occupation on his daughter's birth cert?

[maggie_4_7]

Did Henry Dunn have an occupation on his daughter's birth cert?

No it's blank for both Henry and Martha and on Martha's the name Henry Dunn has been written and then crossed out.

[Merry]

I have looked at a few things, but not come up with anything more than you have already found.

I do think James 'Sayer' and James Gilbert are the same person. Have you found a confirmed death for him? I wondered if he died before 1891 when Caroline says she is a widow? I presume when he said he was a widower in 1881 that was because his original (only) wife was dec'd?

[maggie_4_7]

I have looked at a few things, but not come up with anything more than you have already found.

I do think James 'Sayer' and James Gilbert are the same person. Have you found a confirmed death for him? I wondered if he died before 1891 when Caroline says she is a widow? I presume when he said he was a widower in 1881 that was because his original (only) wife was dec'd?

I know it's a maze of misinformation by Caroline, even where she was born, it was actually Carbrooke in Norfolk.

I wish I could find Frederick and Jane's births I sent for one of each I found but both were wrong. I did consider at one point they may be James' children by his wife but then I had a DNA connection from someone descended from Jane I suppose she could be Martha's daughter.

I will check James Gilbert's death, I think I did find find it once.

[Merry]

It does seem odd that Frederick and Jane don't appear to be registered, when the others are. I did look in Ireland at Sayer(s) and Gilbert, but unsurprisingly, didn't find anything. I wouldn't be surprised if they are registered, but we are not seeing them, because of the vaguaries on the info given both at any registrations and on the census for age and birthplace which don't all match. Makes me think of trying to do a jigsaw puzzle where you have taken three different ones, mixed the pieces together and then thrown some away!!

[maggie_4_7]

Well if I have the right James Gilbert, he was alive for the 1891 census.

On other census he has a birth place of Clerkenwell.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/8130261:6598?_phsrc=NbR2060&_phstart=successSource&gsfn=James&gsln=Gilbert&ssrc=pt_t1310698_p422314796436&ml_rpos=9&queryId=423f89ed167856a20fb7fe040d768c49

[Phoenix]

So, who is Ellen Gilbert's mother? The woman James was actually married to?

[maggie_4_7]

So, who is Ellen Gilbert's mother? The woman James was actually married to?

If I have the right James. Can't find a marriage but it's Mary.

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=8860&h=225172&ssrc=pt&tid=1310698&pid=422314796436&usePUB=true&_gl=1*1ysat85*_ga*NjM1MjM2MDM2LjE2NDQ2MDIyODk.*_ga _4PXYE4RLH1*MTY0NzM3MzY1OS44MC4xLjE2NDczNzM2NjUuMA ..

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=8767&h=5571755&ssrc=pt&tid=1310698&pid=422314796436&usePUB=true&_gl=1*1ygfrxk*_ga*NjM1MjM2MDM2LjE2NDQ2MDIyODk.*_ga _4PXYE4RLH1*MTY0NzM3MzY1OS44MC4xLjE2NDczNzM3MTcuMA ..

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=7572&h=7650458&tid=1310698&pid=422314796436&queryId=bebd9396d5be6ab711e938d67fbd6d7e&usePUB=true&_phsrc=NbR2136&_phstart=successSource&_gl=1*1wbjv0z*_ga*NjM1MjM2MDM2LjE2NDQ2MDIyODk.*_ga _4PXYE4RLH1*MTY0NzM3MzY1OS44MC4xLjE2NDczNzM5MDQuMA ..

[Merry]

Yes, no marriage and no birth registrations in the name Gilbert :( Perhaps Mary was already married to someone else, given she was a few years older than James?

[maggie_4_7]

Yes, no marriage and no birth registrations in the name Gilbert :( Perhaps Mary was already married to someone else, given she was a few years older than James?

I am glad you said that, thought I was going mad. Spent ages looking for births for Ellen and Mary on GRO, then baptisms, James and Mary marriage and zilch.

However Ellen's marriage is in the Gilbert name and she names James as her father.

[maggie_4_7]

A number of deaths could be attributed to James.

Just wish I could find a birth registration for Frederick and Jane not that I will probably learn much more it's just a missing link that irritates me.

I know Jane is definitely Caroline's or someone's child in the Sayer family because of the DNA connection.