View Full Version : search for marriage culshaw noblet
hi , i am searching for a marriage between a culshaw and noblet around the preston area , winifred noblet was
Hi everyone ,i've found the marriage , i checked for the surname noblett and it's there . thanks
The only problem is winifred s name says noblet . in 1901 the other births for culshaw noblett have the extra T on the name . any ideas ? want to make sure it's the correct parents marriage . I found the marriage thomas Noblett and Mary culshaw 1881 . any thoughts
garstonite
14-02-22, 06:59
NOBLETT John James CULSHAW 1882 Trinity Preston TR/12/43
NOBLETT Alfred CULSHAW 1885 Trinity Preston TR/20/82
NOBLETT Thomas CULSHAW 1888 Trinity Preston TR/27/92
NOBLETT Francis Joseph CULSHAW 1893 Trinity Preston TR/40/14
NOBLETT Margaret CULSHAW 1894 Trinity Preston TR/43/52
NOBLETT Ellen CULSHAW 1895 Trinity Preston TR/47/2
No Winifred
all on www.lancashirebmd.org.uk
I can't find a Winifred - but have found a Mary Winifred b 1899 - how old is your Winfred in 1901 ?
NOBLET Mary Winifred KELLETT 1899 Mellor Preston M/11/79
Hi i found winifred on a 1911 census with her thomas noblet in preston age 10 . there's a thomas i think father age 57 no mother and a son thomas 22 mary 20 and nelly 15 and obviously winifred . age 10 what's your thoughts ? are they the same family ? will see if i can find a death for the mother .
i may have got the wrong family but i will check back on what i have logged down .
there's a ellen noblets death in 1905 in preston age 46 . but have to do some digging to see if it's the mother .
thomas noblett married ellen culshaw in 1881 , if that's correct marriage so that could be her death .
thomas and mary would fit with the ones you have in the census and also winifred i saw the birth 1901 for her . on lancs bmd . Some of the other children could have left home before the census .
will check the 1901 census
Ellen Nobblett
Mother
F
42
Ribbleton, Lancashire
George Nobblett
Brother
M
16
Preston, Lancashire
Alfred Nobblett
Brother
M
15
Preston, Lancashire
Mary Nobblett
Sister
F
10
Preston, Lancashire
Ellen Nobblett
Sister
F
5
Preston, Lancashire
Margaret Nobblett
Sister
F
3
Preston, Lancashire
Winefred Nobblett
Sister
F
0
Preston, Lancashire this is a part of the 1901 census father thomas mother ellen i think this is correct famiky as winifred is 0 as she was born in 1901 . Then on the 1911 census i think ellen passed away in 1905 .
kiterunner
14-02-22, 15:36
Is there something you need help with here or have you solved it yourself, Qwackers?
Hi that's kiterunner , i think i have solved the mystery .It was the name that threw me ,but merry and you have taught me to look at variations of names . I was looking for ancestors named noblet , then noblett and then on the census the name was nobblett , which i chuckled about . But thanks for all your help your much appreciated . I could have never done a quarter of what i Have done without you .My sight is not the best and sometimes i miss things . but you and merry always try to help which is great x
hi kiterunner , i have looked at this before and got documents which i printed , but because we have moved half of our stuff is still packed in the garage . I am looking for a birth Of a john Cliff . Born Preston . he married Pauline ellen pearson at preston reg office in 1951 . there are a few john cliffs in and around that time when he could have been born . How do I determine which is his mother ? any help gratefully received ? thanks
kiterunner
14-02-22, 16:44
Can I just check he and his wife are not still alive, please? If they are then I will need to edit their names out. There is no way to find out who his mother was without more information. You would need to look at his marriage certificate to see details of his age and his father, then we would try to figure it out from that.
john cliff and his wife pauline are dead . they were my son in laws grandparents . .
they got married in the right office ,so it would mean purchasing the marriage cert .
that should have said register office this predictive text lol.
I am looking for a birth Of john Cliff . john cliff and his wife pauline are dead . they were my son in laws grandparents . How do I determine which is his mother ? .
I can see the death registration for Pauline because it matches the information on her 1939 Register. Do you know which is the correct death reg for her husband? It might help to trace his birth and parents etc.
Hi merry i believe his mother was nellie billington and father gordan cliff married 1919 emmanuel preston .
How do I determine which is his mother ?
So why are you asking this here if you already know who she is?
i'm sorry i found it this morning i asked for help yesterday .
hi , I am trying to find the birth of a ann hornby in poulton le fylde she was approx 47 on 1911 census . I can't get on the GRO ? thanks
You could have looked at LancsBMD or FreeBMD though.
Have you taken her age and birthplace from just the one source (1911)?
There's these four which are close enough (FreeBMD):
Births Mar 1859
HORNBY Ann Fylde 8e 501
Births Jun 1860
HORNBY Ann Fylde 8e 567
Births Sep 1863
HORNBY Ann Fylde 8e 519
Births Sep 1864
HORNBY Ann Jane Fylde 8e 562
I'm assuming she was married in 1911 as I couldn't find her with the details you gave. Have you get her marriage for her father's details? What is her name in 1911?
Sorry . Her name was billington. she married peter billington I saw the indexes but there was a couple of them which could be her as the census say she was born poulton .
The census says she was 45 in 1911 , but obviously it was recorded in april so she could have been 46 that year
So you haven't seen the marriage cert?
Did she live to 1939?
In 1901 her birthplace is recorded as Woodplumpton which is in Preston district, so you might have to consider these too:
Births Mar 1860 (>99%)
HORNBY Ann Preston 8e 432
Births Mar 1863 (>99%)
HORNBY Ann Preston 8e 488
The census says she was 45 in 1911 , but obviously it was recorded in april so she could have been 46 that year
The 1911 census says she was 47 not 45.
Have you looked for her on the 1871 and 1881 census records?
no i will check them . now.
I checked for deaths but couldn't see a positive one around preston but it's not to say she didn't die in another area , as there are a couple of potential ones . but not in preston .
Nothing came up for her name etc on 1871 a ann hornby came up on the 1881 census she is age 17 and is a general servant in treals and roseacre and wharles a small village near kirkham . it's says niece of sylvester hornby age 60 also his brother robert 57 and sister ellen hornby housekeeper . they were both born in roseacre ann in poulton .
And what does the name Sylvester make you think?
Sylvester billington ,ann's son ?
Exactly. Sylvester was a pretty rare first name so the chances of the niece being the right Ann are increased as her son could have been named for him.
your blooming good lol yes your right sylvester is a unusual name . Do you think robert and ellen are ann's parents as it doesn't say anything about that .? i will check the 1871 census looking for them it may come up with something .
I hope not, as you already said they were brother and sister!
i checked the 1841 census to see if i could find the hornby family with sylvester . and they were in Roseacre . John and ann both 60 born lancs robert age 15 ellen age 10 john age 5 and sylvester age 20 So one of his siblings could be ann's parent ?
Have you got the 1871 census yet?
I tried to get it in Family search but it didn't find anything . it's funny like that . i try not to put too much info in as it doesn't find much if you do . Whatever they have done to the site it isn't great .
Ok, well, here it is...
1871 Census
Treales Roseacre and Wharles, Lancashire
Silvester Hornby head unm 50 ag lab b Roseacre
Robert Hornby brother unm 47 ditto
Ellen Hornby sister unm 44 b Roseacre
Ann Hornby grandniece 8 b Poulton
oh , so she's sylvester grand niece not niece as displayed in the 1881 census
will that be a granddaughter of his brother or sister ?
That all depends on which census is correct (if either of them are).
yes i know what you mean . Is sister ellen could have had ann iunmarried or his other sister could have had a child or his brothers wife john ?
Which of the birth registrations I posted up earlier do you want me to look up on the GRO index?
Did yours have a middle name then? I'm not saying this isn't her, but if you find this Ann with her parents in 1871/81 then she's unlikely to be yours.
Remember you can work out who the parents are by looking for their marriage.
HORNBY, ANN JANE mmn LANG
GRO Reference: 1864 S Quarter in FYLDE Volume 08E Page 562
I haven't seen her on anything with a middle name but i will look up a marriage of the one you have given me .Thanks
I found a william hornby marriage to a jane lang preston 1861 . if it helps .
So you need to look for them on a census (1871 would be best) and if they have that daughter with them then they, she and her birth reg are probably not what you are looking for.
Olde Crone
16-02-22, 13:23
Could Ann be the one born 1863 Poulton, mmm Fallagan (sic). That would match with the marriage of John Hornby to Bridget Flannagan(sic again) in 1855, Old Fylde. (Lancsbmd).
OC
I'll have a look old crone thanks . i've tried to search for the couple on the 1871 census ,with no results .
hi old crone , i've looked and yes it's a possibility i'll check how old john was at the time of that marriage .
You could look on Lancs OPC for Ann Jane father William to see what happened to her.
I found a birth for a ann jane hornby in lytham mmn lang but i thought our jane was born in poulton . there's a few other siblings to her family could you look up the last one on your list for GRO when you have time .
John could potentially be married to Bridget flanagan .
i've tried a few times to look at 1871 census , for william and jane. and john hornby . but it comes up with no results . which can't be right . i'm so frustrated with the site if i just put the surname in it comes up no results . It rubbish .
I found a birth for a ann jane hornby in lytham mmn lang but i thought our jane was born in poulton .
Exactly. And if you had looked at the 1871 census you would have seen that Ann Jane was with her parents, William and Jane at that date. If you had looked at Lancs OPC you would also have seen Ann Jane marrying someone else in 1888 too.
So, if you had done all that you would have eliminated one of the birth records (the 1864 one).
could you look up the last one on your list for GRO when you have time .
I thought Ann Jane was the last one on the list (in Fylde)?
John could potentially be married to Bridget flanagan .
That's in Post #56.
you looked up the 1864 ann i was thinking the 1863 one , but potentially the john old crone mentioned marry bridget flannigan having a daughter ann in poullton coukd this be a possibility ?
So, that's this one:
HORNBY, ANN mmn FLANNAGAN
GRO Reference: 1863 S Quarter in FYLDE Volume 08E Page 519
You know John and Bridget must both be living in 1861 (between the marriage and the conception of Ann) so it might be best to try and find them there first so you know who you are looking for on other records.
thanks. for doing that that's the one old crones mentioned . do you think it's a possibility . if sylvester "niece " is correct it could be his brothers john child . what's your thought . ?
i will try and see if i can find them .
thanks. for doing that that's the one old crones mentioned . do you think it's a possibility . if sylvester "niece " is correct it could be his brothers john child . what's your thought . ?
Yes, or she could be the granddaughter of Sylvester's brother, so Sylvester's great-niece!
First you have to prove John and Bridget are the parents of your Ann and not just the parents of another Ann.
i've tried to find them on the 1971 census that would be good but once again for either name it says no results . there may be a problem with the site but i'll try the 1881 census .
As I said before, you need to start with the 1861 as that's when you know they should both be alive.
i found a bridget Hornby in Roseacre on the 1881 census . she is a widow , she has two sons one named charles 12 and wait for it ! a silvester age 8 .
Ok, so that is likely to be the mother of the Ann you are looking for. Ann isn't there which is good. If Charles is 12, can you find him in 1871?
You need to find Bridget with her husband so you can see his age and birthplace.
as i have said i have searched the 1871 census for bridget and john , but it keeps coming up with no results .
i checked the 1861 census to see if they were on that , and i found them John age 27 born treals which is roseacre bridget 25 john 5 ellen 2 and a ellen greenall 68 born ireland
OK, I'm just cooking dinner at the mo, so ill come back to this later. Well done for finding the 1861.
bon apertite , i've just finished , mine ,just going to catch up on some tv thanks
Ok, there's something going on in 1871. I don't know if Bridget is missing (we do know she isn't dead because you have her in 1881) or whether Mary is Bridget. I know many Catholic girls had Mary as one of their forenames, but this Mary, though the same age as Bridget, is said to be born in Kendal nor Ireland:
1871 Census
Inskip With Sowerby
John Hornby head married 38 labourer b Roseacre, Lancs
Mary Hornby wife married b labourer's wife b Kendal, Westmoreland
Ellen Hornby dau 12 general servant, out of place b Roseacre, Lancs
Jane Hornby dau 9 b Roseacre, Lancs
Charles Hornby son 2 b Roseacre, Lancs
So from the 1861 census we had
John about 1856
Ellen about 1859
and from 1871:
Jane about 1862
Charles about 1869
and from 1881:
Sylvester about 1873
and in amongst these, also Ann b 1863
All of theeir birth registrations should have mmn Flannagan. However, that's not the case (note that Ann was a twin!):
HORNBY, JOHN FLANNAGAN
GRO Reference: 1856 M Quarter in FYLDE Volume 08E Page 509
HORNBY, ELLEN MAGUIRE
GRO Reference: 1858 S Quarter in FYLDE Volume 08E Page 469
HORNBY, JANE HANNAGAN
GRO Reference: 1861 S Quarter in FYLDE Volume 08E Page 576
HORNBY, ANN FLANNAGAN
GRO Reference: 1863 S Quarter in FYLDE Volume 08E Page 519
HORNBY, MARY FLANNAGAN
GRO Reference: 1863 S Quarter in FYLDE Volume 08E Page 519 (2 poss deaths, 1863 Q3 aged 0 and 1869 Q2 aged 6 both Fylde district)
HORNBY, CHARLES MCGUIRE
GRO Reference: 1868 J Quarter in FYLDE Volume 08E Page 635
HORNBY, SILVESTER MCGUIRE
GRO Reference: 1872 S Quarter in FYLDE Volume 08E Page 636
So, I don't know why Bridget is both McGuire and Flannagan (I expect the Hannagan entry is just a mistranscription). You noted her mother, Ellen Greenall), was in the 1861 household. I'be not been able to make a connection between Greenall, Flannagan and McGuire which is of any use.
I think you may have to get the marriage cert for Bridget and John Hornby to give yourself any chance of working out anything about Bridget and also who was John Hornby's father. It's possible his parents are Thomas and Jane Hornby (1851 census) and this Thomas is definitely the elder brother of Silvester (1820). However, in 1841 there are other John Hornbys of a similar age in other families and of course in 1841 the relationships are not recorded, so it might be very easy to go wrong.
wow you have. done a lot of work ,and how complicated . yes it's all very strange .i may have to purchase the marriage certificate as you say , but one thing that's good is that a child is named sylvester andas you said before it's an unusual name . and family's sometimes liked similar names to their relatives . i will see if i can find out anything elise . thanks for all your work .
also it's strange on the 1861 census place of birth ireland then on 1871 westmoland . she must know where she is born lol . i don't know if ellen greenall is bridget's mother ,as she wasn't named as such i can't see a full census with all info on family , so i may go and search in the library today .you may have sen that . but i'll get a copy anyway and then perhaps phone and order the marriage certificate.
Its certainly a puzzler , why were they in inskip ? is there some kind of connection ? but it will keep me busy for a while lol
Mind you i was thinking inskip was near yorkshire but it's actually in the wyre in my area and isn't far from roseacre . so thy haven't moved very far .
i thought i would see where sylvester was in 1911.and i found a sylvester hornby in fylde workhouse as a inmate . it doesn't give his age so i don't know which sylvester this his, but what a shame that he would end up there .
i looked for charles hornby in 1991 , and found him it says father robert nottingham and mother mary and ellen 9 so i checked the birth and it's our charles and it was correct so i looked at marriages and there was a marriage for robert and mary hornby in old fylde 1885 so it looks like bridget (mary ) got remarried .
i don't know if ellen greenall is bridget's mother ,as she wasn't named as such i can't see a full census with all info on family , so i may go and search in the library today .you may have sen that .
Here's her entry, copied and pasted from Family Search, which is where I presume you were looking:
Name Ellen Greenall
Sex Female
Age 68
Event Date 1861
Event Place Poulton le Fylde, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original) Poulton Le Fylde, Lancashire, England
Registration District Fylde
Residence Note Poulton Green
Birth Year (Estimated) 1793
Birthplace Ireland
Marital Status Widowed
Occupation No Occupation
Relationship to Head of Household Mother In Law
Event Type Census
Household Identifier 3574250
Line Number 20
Page Number 23
Piece/Folio 3149 / 56
Registration Number RG09
I did find her in 1851 too, with her husband James Greenall who was a local man. They were living in Poulton le Fylde and no one else in the household. I haven't found them in 1841 not a marriage for James with any of the potential surnames for Ellen.
I agree about Bridget/Mary marrying Robert Nottingham. Note that the child Ellen Nottingham who is with them in 1891 isn't Bridget's daughter - she was born to Robert's previous wife. (I have forgotten the first wife's name now, but she died in 1883).
In 1901 Bridget is now Mary again! She is listed as Mary Nottingham widow aged 68 and is in the workhouse at Chorley. Her place of birth this time is.......Kendal, Westmorland!!
So, I'm beginning to wonder if she was actually born in Kendal? You said
she must know where she is born lol
but lots of people didn't or just assumed. I can see Ireland being recorded because she was from an Irish Catholic family and I can see Lancashire being recorded because that's where she was living (and remember in most cases it would by the head of house who would fill out the census form or the head of house who would be asked for the information, so Mary/Bridget may never have had contact with the enumerator!), but I don't see why Kendal would be plucked from thin air. It could be that she was brought up there, but was born elsewhere, or that she was born there. Difficult to know without Catholic records for the area (I've not actually looked to see if there are any!!)
This looks like her death (though she's a bit younger again!):
Deaths Mar 1907
Nottingham Mary 69 Fylde 8e 541
wow you have done a lot again . I didn't see that for ellen greenall it all doesn't come up on my ipad ,i think it's because of the browser it doesn't show all the info . Well you found her with her husband which is good . I will try and see if i can find them yes on reflection she could easily have been born in kendal else why mention it .what ashme that she ended up in the workhouse . Thanks again i'll try and do some more digging .
You can't tell from the census whether she was in the w/h for one night or a number of days, weeks, months or years.
Yes i understand , but i suppose it wasn't nice even for a day . times were very hard
Hi , I went to the library to use ancestry ,searching for bridget's birth , but to no avail ,I couldn't find a marriage also for her mother or a definite birth for james greenall, or find him on a census . but he must be on one somewhere . But obviously the name could be spelled grenhaigh etc which makes it more difficult . but will keep looking .
This is James and Ellen in 1851 on Family Search:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SG5Z-PTM
and James' death reg:
GREENALL, JAMES 64
GRO Reference: 1859 J Quarter in FYLDE Volume 08E Page 360
vBulletin® v3.8.7 PL3, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.