View Full Version : george Leicester (lester ) birth approx 1795
Hi , I am trying to find the father of george leicester who was born in Windle in approx 1795 . see post 24 . he is on the 1851 census .married to elizabeth arrowsmith . I have looked for his father george under leicester. lester and variations and come across quite a few , with the name but not around the st. helens prescot area , they seem to be in Stafford or shropshire . any help would be gratefully received. I couldn't find george the sons actual birth . in windle . So i have just the 1851 census to go on . Thanks
You said See post 24, but not which thread!!
I've copied it here to save others searching;
1851 census
Water Street, Windle, Lancashire
George Lester Head Mar 56 Coal Miner Windle Lancashire Deaf
Elizabeth Do Wife Mar 50 Sutton Do
Joseph Do Son U 27 Coal Miner Windle Do
Ann Do Daur U 21 Confectioner Sutton Do
John King Visitor U 23 Glass Cutter Eccleston Do
Elizabeth Dagnall Servant U 15 House Servant Rainhill Do.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8860/images/LANHO107_2195_2195-0989?ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&pId=13084964
If anyone wants to know which thread that came from:
http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/Forum/showthread.php?t=25999&highlight=george+windle+1851&page=2
On the other thread I also found the marriage between George and Elizabeth:
3 Jan 1820 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot: George Leicester, collier, bachelor, and Elizabeth Arrowsmith, spinster, both of the parish, married by banns, witnesses John Cunliffe and James Harrison.
In your opening post here you seem to be saying the father of this George is also called George. How do you know that?
As far as I can see, the baptism of George, b about 1795 at Windle, is already posted on the old thread you were looking at before:
Post #41 from the previous thread:
Baptism at St Helens 6 Mar 1796: George son of James Laysetter, collier, Windle, born Febr 28. (From FMP)
So, his father is James not George.
hi , Thanks merry , your right as usual , i came across a marriage in prescot of a james leicester of windle and a lessee Hill of windle 17th feb 1791 , it could be a shot in th dark . What do you think ? thanks
What's the date of the first baptism you have for the children of James?
i will have to search for them ,
i have found these on family search , but can't see the full view as they have changed all the format on the site , i'm not on ancestry etc . these births say jas as father mary ,3rd of feb windle , william 25 / sept 1803 william 18/may 1805 Margeret 25/sept 1807 Joseph 18/sept 1800 I will have to double check if these belong to james and Lassee , an unusual name . See what i can glean .
kiterunner
16-11-21, 09:06
Lancs OPC has the burial of Lassey Leicester 10 Oct 1815 St Mary (now St Helen), St Helens, age 42, abode Hardshaw.
that's interesting that could be her
hardshaw was or is a part of St. helens .
kiterunner
16-11-21, 09:53
It might be an idea for you to look at the baptisms of children of James Leicester and see whether Hardshaw is mentioned as the abode in any of those. Also if there are burials of any of the children.
Olde Crone
16-11-21, 10:03
Apologies if this is already known, but
15 April 1816, At Mary Virgin, PRescott
James Leicester widow (sic) to Betty Parr, widow. Banns say he was from Windle.
Also I have seen the name Lessey before in Lancashire, it is nearly always a mis spelling of Lizzie.
OC
i found a Birth of a lassey hill in newton online parish , but she was born june 1767 a little early . there was a couple of deaths of a lassey hill in 71 and 72 . father william mother mary
thanks for that ,yes it possibly could be him as his wife had passed away ,
thanks old crone i'll check for lizzie instead of lassey .
i found a Birth of a lassey hill in newton online parish , but she was born june 1767 a little early . there was a couple of deaths of a lassey hill in 71 and 72 . father william mother mary
On which site were the two burials?
on ancestry , i can see the pages but not the original as i'm not a full member .
The 1767 baptism and 1815 burial both clearly have the spelling as Lassey. The marriage has Lassee.
I'm not saying the 1767 baptism is the right one. I can't find the burials in 1771 and 1772.
on ancestry , i can see the pages but not the original as i'm not a full member .
Oh, I've found the 1771 burial now. That is written Lassey. It is prob the same child as was bap 1767. maybe they had another dau, same name, later? Off out now.
Olde Crone
16-11-21, 10:42
Yes, sorry, I should have said the name was originally Lizzie, but the mis spelling continued down the ages.
OC
There are a few years missing on the st ellen's chapel in st. helens . the years after 1700 are not there ,it goes to the 1800s . was going to check births for that chapel .
there was two burials one 1771 and one 1772 same parents .
What about this one?
Lalastica Hill Christening (Baptism) 17 Jan 1773 Newton-Le-Willows, St Peter Wm, Mary
I've looked at the image and it looks like Lalaslical, but there are probably several interpretations! (I keep thinking of Elastigirl!)
I looked at a list of biblical names starting with L, looking for something obscure, but it didn't help!
(I still can't see the 1772 burial but it's irrelevant to this anyway)
Olde Crone
16-11-21, 11:49
Hm. On the other hand, was the name assumed to be an attempt at Lizzie, lol.
Lalastica doesn't sound a million miles from Leicester to me!
OC
Lalastica doesn't sound a million miles from Leicester to me!
OC
lol OC! Lalastica Leicester? You wouldn't choose it!! She must have liked James a great deal!
844
perhaps that's her real name but for short lassey lol . what a very strange name . but you never know it may be our girl .
the date of birth would fit with the death . of lassey hill .
It would. Did you look for children born earlier than the few you listed up-thread?
I will check for them . There is a 6th century name scholastica ,
Olde Crone
16-11-21, 13:26
Merry, having seen some of the other daft names in Lancashire, nothing would surprise me!
OC
hill is a very common name , i'm trying to trawl through some births in winwick .
hi merry , when i look on the newton parish clerk some years are missing around the 1770s , can you see them ok ?
Do you mean Newton-Le-Willows? If you do, then yes, I can see entries, though still not the second burial you mentioned earlier. Maybe you could give me the exact date so I can look at the register to see what's actually on the page?
i have what came up on ancestry just the basic format , fo burials for lassey , its strange as one says it's aug 1771 and the other 1st august 1772 , so one may not be correct father william .
Ok. They are both the same entry but one record clearly shows the year and the other is a little ambiguois. The 1772 entry is actually 1771. I didn't see both before because I didn't realise they were in two different data sets, one for Wigan and area and the other for Lancashire.
i've found this birth mary hill bap jan 1769 father william mother mary at newton there's a couple of others with father william but are at the winwick church . the years i also want to check are missing . they jump to 1800s after 1769 . any ideas ?
Don't you need to be more certain the couple who married in 1791 are the right people? I can see it's tempting because Lassie Leicester died in the right place, but at the moment you only have one child born before 1800 (George), the others being the names in post #6 (you didn't give a year for Mary!).
So you should be looking for more baptisms after, maybe 1785. If you find more between 1791 and 1800 but none before 1791 then you might be able to accept the 1791 marriage as the correct one.
If you decide the Hills are the right family, there are five baptisms at Newton le Willows, 1767-1775, the offspring of Wm and Mary.
i will keep checking , bur the years I want to look at are missing on the parish clerks.
on ancestry ,it's coming up with a lot of births at winwick for hills but it's saying born in 1790 and. i'm sure they were not born all at the same time . I only see the lesser format . so it's frustrating .lol
i can only find four births to william and mary at newton , lalastica , william and mary . and of course lassey who died .
i feel that lalastica is james's wife . if so how do i detect his birth etc . ?
on ancestry ,it's coming up with a lot of births at winwick for hills but it's saying born in 1790 and. i'm sure they were not born all at the same time . I only see the lesser format . so it's frustrating .lol
You are supposed to be looking for Leicesters born in St Helens, 1785-1800 - a continuation of the entries you typed up in post #6.
how do i detect his birth etc . ?
What else do you know about him?
i'm sorry I'm confused i thought you meant the hills , I don't know anything at all about james . all the famiky trees i've seen with george doesn't seem to have anything on him at all . so it's a blank canvas .Ive tried looking for a burial for him but the only one i can see is one in liverpool ,we know he was still alive after lassey as he got married to betty parr in Prescot , i've looked around there and rainford and st. helens but to no avail . whether he was conscripted into the army that may be something to look into .
I don't think the UK used conscription for the Napoleonic Wars.
i have found these children at windle and st. helens , father james joseph 18/sept 1800, ann 8/oct 1802 william 25/sept 1803 margeret 18/april 1807 william 6/aug 1809 mary 1798
Ok. I've looked too. There are these others:
25 Nov 1792 John
06 Mar 1796 George
07 Jul 1805 William
The dates I recorded are the baptism dates.
mine are baptism dates . where do i go from here ? i have tried searching for james with rough dates of birth from 1769 to 1773 but he could have been born before that , most births are around cheshire , but i will check around ormskirk and wigan .
I would say James is likely to be your brick wall for the end of ths line for the time being. You need more than just the nearest birth/baptism to say an entry is his, particularly as you have no idea how old he was when he married.
As you have three children called William, I had a look at the St Helens burial records. I found this likely burial for the second William, but the records are more or less illegible for 1803-5, so not possible to find anything more unfortunately.
29 Apr 1809 Wm Leycoster son of James, collier
i found a birth of a james leicester in ormskirk but it was in 1754 . . but like you say it may be my brick wall , as i have no idea how old he was at marriage and can't find a burial at present . but i'll keep on searching . .thanks for all of your help
Could it be that james was older , as there is a james leicesters birth 1754 in ormskirk . mother elenor and father thomas ? or is he too old ?
kiterunner
18-11-21, 14:56
The one baptised in 1754 could be the James Laceter who married Elizabeth Spence in 1775 in Ormskirk, though.
yes your right , i have seen a few leicester births in ormskirk , it was worth looking there .
i've searched for a burial on ancestry and the only one that seems to come up all the time is a burial in liverpool in 1828 , age of james 59 birth approx 1769 .
If that is him it gives us a little more info .
There are these two (Ancestry and GRO) - both feel too old to me. Also,I couldn't see any obvious Betty/Elizabeth dying in either place:
Name: James Lester
Death Age: 99
Birth Date: abt 1742
Burial Date: 15 Mar 1841
Burial Place: Ormskirk, Lancashire, England
LEICESTER, JAMES 99
GRO Reference: 1841 M Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 21 Page 447
Name: James Laceter
Gender: Male
Death Age: 80
Birth Date: 1757
Death Date: abt 1837
Burial Date: 23 Jan 1837
Burial Place: St. Helens Parish, Lancaster County
yes i agree about the age. but at least you found something , i noticed betty parr was a widow of wigan , i wonder if she reverted to her name pre marriage ? again we have come to a halt , i suppose if we can find her he may not too far away , but there could be lots of reasons we can't find him lol
i wonder if she reverted to her name pre marriage
Very unlikely indeed.
garstonite
20-11-21, 07:03
just to let you know I am only 20 minutes from all these towns - Prescot - Newton Le Willows - Windle - Sutton etc I can be in Sutton in 10 minutes
Banns: St Mary, Prescot, Lancashire, England
George Leicester - Windle
Elizabeth Arrowsmith - Sutton
Banns Read: 19 Dec 1819, 2nd: 26 Dec 1819, 3rd: 2 Jan 1820
Register: Banns 1813 - 1837, Page 57, Entry 282
Source: LDS Film 1657598
Marriage: 3 Jan 1820 St Mary The Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
George Leicester - (X), Collier, Bachelor, this Parish
Elizabeth Arrowsmith - (X), Spinster, this Parish
Witness: John Cunliffe, (X); James Harrison, (X)
Married by Banns by: Wm. Vernon, Curate
garstonite
20-11-21, 07:10
Marriage: 7 Feb 1791 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
James Leicester - (X), Collier, Windle
Lassee Hill - (X), Spinster, Windle
Witness: Henry Lawson; James Bradshaw
Married by Banns by: Wm. Thompson, Curate
James would have worked in Sutton Colliery - which had a great Social Club ...been in there many times
...............
maybe of interest to you
https://www.parishmouse.co.uk/lancashire/st-helens-lancashire-family-history-guide/
garstonite
20-11-21, 07:15
The county lunatic asylum here, is within Sutton township, and, at the census of 1861, had 704 inmates.. seems a lot of inmates -
for the record I bought my Bichon Frise in Sutton .... no wonder he's crackers - lol
I used to go to st. helens to look on the microfiche at the library , all the places like you say are not far from one another , prescot i think is part of liverpool now , there are colliery records , etc . so st. helens has a great history of glass making and pits , my brother in law was from st. helens and worked at pilkingtons Glass factory ,he worked there from being fifteen , he loved it , he's finished now with a great pension . not many company's look after you like they did . It was the first company in the world to do floating glass , Gone are the days of pits , it was a hard graft , Some wonder the lunatic asylum was full up,i would have gone crazy . When i was little there was a saying that if you thought you were going nuts you'd end up in winwick . my greatgrandfather did , probably with nothing more than old age . Thank god things have changed
I just put historical records family search , in the google search box and it seemed to go to old format of family Search .I tried searching for james on the non comformist records . and found this record I don't know what church but it's in lancashire It says jas leister born orril to mary and jas 1765 . I know this is again a shot in the dark But jas could be james , leister could have meant leicester, and orril,, orrell . What do you think merry ?
I can't find that one. Which site was it on?
I'd say it rather depends on how many other records you have found. It's more difficult with men because their age can't be fathomed from the children that have had.
it's on family search , under non conformist records england . it comes up with a few names and original document . I got to it by putting in google search historical records Family search . it seemed to take me to old style format family search which was a better format .
Well I still can't find it but it doesn't matter, as I've already said what I think!
I searched FS for the entry you found in:
England, Lancashire Non-Conformist Church Records, 1647-1996
and
England and Wales Non-Conformist Record Indexes (RG4-8), 1588-1977
but didn't get anything to match the record you found.
garstonite
22-11-21, 06:22
Orrell is close to Aintree Racecourse - North Liverpool
hi all , we came across a brick wall searching for james leicesters lesters birth , but i accidentally found a couple of records ,which may or may not be a connection to him . I thought he may have joined the military .as there were campaigns through the 1790s in the napolionic war . so i came across a draft registration for a james lester 1793 birth year estimated 1757 also a military service record james lester born farnworth lancaster age 37 birth approx 1756 in 1793 , farnworth could be farnworth near prescot , . it's again a shot in the dark , but if you can give any imput i would be grateful . thanks
Where did you accidentally find these records?
Also, please can you explain who James Leicester is (marriage record, burial record, baptism of his child who is also your ancestor), to save others having to try and find him on the boards with all the alternative spellings he will be recorded with!
will do just on my way out
James laysetter , leicester ,lester was born around 1756 unknown birth place . son George leicester . Born in st. helens 1775 baptised 1776 . George married elizabeth arrowsmith in 1820 in prescot .
Are you sure about those dates?
Are you sure George was born in 1775/6?
When was James married and who to?
How do you know when James was born - do you have his burial with age recorded?
no i don't know who james married and his age on his death , as i couldn't find anyone only , so his birthplace etc are a blank . Yes i'm sure about the birth of george .
So is George no longer baptised in 1796 the son of James Leicester and Lassie Hill who married in 1791? (posts #2 and #3 of this thread)
sorry , merry , i was half a sleep ?????? when i last looked at your post of course your right .
So, after all that, what did you actually want to know?
You have a James Leicester marrying in 1791, but no burial or baptism for him, but you think he was in the army throughout his marriage? What was his occupation when his various children were baptised, or was it not recorded?
Yes merry. your right as usual if he had children in the time he was supposed to be in the army , which says from 1793 for twenty years , the record ive found isn't him . Ill keep searching to see if i can at least find his birth or death . thanks anyway
I will try and find A burial for betty leicester who married james after the death of lassee , it may give me a clue , i've searched a few parish clerks around the area ,but as yet haven't come up with anything .
Olde Crone
29-11-21, 10:53
Have you discounted this one? If you can find "yours" on census, it should give you an idea of her age (and when she died).
St Mary Virgin, Eccles.
5 Jan 1870
Elizabeth Leicester, age 73, wife of James Leicester, of Salford.
OC
i have seen it but the ages makes her born about 1803 , a little young for my james , whose son george was born in 1775 . but they could be relatives . as a few of my ancestors found work in manchester . thanks
whose son george was born in 1775
1796.
sorry merry george was born in approx 1795 not 1775
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