View Full Version : A search in 1911 census please
Could someone tell me who lived at 18 Alexandra Road, Reading, Berkshire when the census was taken. Thanks :)
I don’t have a name, that’s why I’m asking.
kiterunner
16-10-21, 11:40
As far as I can make out from searching two different sites, there is no entry for that number on either the census pages or the census summary. It jumps from 16 to 22.
maggie_4_7
16-10-21, 11:45
Could someone tell me who lived at 18 Alexandra Road, Reading, Berkshire when the census was taken. Thanks :)
I don’t have a name, that’s why I’m asking.
On the electoral roll
Name: Charles Slaughter
Residence Date: 1911
Street Address: 18 Alexandra Road,Reading
Residence Place: Berkshire, England
Parliamentary Division: Newbury
It looks like he had a business at
35 Essex Street or the other way around its the qualifying address!
I can only find one 35 Essex Street in London which is law chambers but maybe that Essex Street has been renamed.
Edit: looks like there is one in Reading.
https://addressesandpostcodes.co.uk/address/SWJnrlyW/35-essex-street-reading-rg2-0eh.html
On the 1911 census a family called Purver lived there.
Ancestry has erolls for Reading and they have Charles Slaughter living at that address in 1911.
Oh, that's weird! Maggie's post wasn't showing when I first opened this thread about three mins ago!
He's at number 13 on the 1911 census.
Thank you all very much.
A friend has found some old photos of people - and the writing on them says they were taken at that address, but no surnames given. He’ll be delighted to get a step further. :)
He's regularly listed as at numbers 23 and 13. 23 up to 1911 and 13 several years both sides of 1911. I'm wondering if the entry for 1911 (18) has the wrong number printed?
If he needs other years, there's erolls for 1920s and 1930s on Ancestry.
If he needs other years, there's erolls for 1920s and 1930s on Ancestry.
Thanks Merry -but neither of us now has a subscription on Ancestry.
No, but I could give you the names etc here!
No, but I could give you the names etc here!
Not quite sure what you mean Merry - names of others who lived at 18? The photos have dates of 1909 …1913 on them and several seem to be of apossibly a Maid - others have more ‘gentrified’ people - so I think that’s why he asked for the 1911 census… although from 1909-13 the house could well have changed hands :rolleyes:
Yes, names of others who lived there. I'm doubtful that CS actually lived there as most of the records show number 13.
Unfortunately there's no erolls for the time frame you mention that include anything on number 18. I also tried the newspapers on FMP, to no avail. Also the various directories on Ancestry.
maggie_4_7
16-10-21, 13:54
Not quite sure what you mean Merry - names of others who lived at 18? The photos have dates of 1909 …1913 on them and several seem to be of apossibly a Maid - others have more ‘gentrified’ people - so I think that’s why he asked for the 1911 census… although from 1909-13 the house could well have changed hands :rolleyes:
Is it definitely 18?
I say that because it doesn't seem to have existed, not 1939 register, not 1954 electoral rolls and can't find it in 1901 number 18 is being very elusive.
Is it definitely 18?
Yes Maggie… all the photos are of people in a garden and on some photos it says wording like ‘in the garden of 18 Alex. The photos/some negatives - were found in another local house.
Alexandra Rd is largely made up of large Victorian houses and they would probably have been owned by local businessmen or local dignitaries, and servants. On Google, no.18, as it was, has obviously been demolished and there’s now a modern semi-Det. but many of the original houses are still there. So (I suspect) the road may have been put together over a period of years, and houses re-numbered over a period of time.
maggie_4_7
16-10-21, 14:09
Yes Maggie… all the photos are of people in a garden and on some photos it says wording like ‘in the garden of 18 Alex. The photos/some negatives - were found in another local house.
Alexandra Rd is largely made up of large Victorian houses and they would probably have been owned by local businessmen or local dignitaries, and servants. On Google, no.18, as it was, has obviously been demolished and there’s now a modern semi-Det. but many of the original houses are still there. So (I suspect) the road may have been put together over a period of years, and houses re-numbered over a period of time.
I asked because it doesn't seem to anywhere.
maggie_4_7
16-10-21, 14:17
On the 1911 census unless those pages are missing it jumps from 16 to 22 it looks like 18 and 20 didn't exist.
I asked because it doesn't seem to anywhere.
Very strange indeed. The house that’s there now looks 1970/1980s build. It’s not a road I go along often, but the immediate impression is always of large Victorian properties. The current house could well be an in-fill from one, or maybe two other old properties which occupied a large piece of land…. And the houses were re-numbered in the process.
maggie_4_7
16-10-21, 14:24
On 1901 it isn't there 17, 19, 21, 22 and 23 so you may be right its been renumbered and who ever wrote on those photographs probably put the number that is was when they wrote it not realising although it was the same house it was a different number when the photographs were taken.
On 1901 it isn't there 17, 19, 21, 22 and 23 so you may be right its been renumbered and who ever wrote on those photographs probably put the number that is was when they wrote it not realising although it was the same house it was a different number when the photographs were taken.
But if they were living there when the photos were taken - and they’re not ‘formal’‘ in any way - just snapshots of people in the garden - they'd know the number of the house :)
But - as you say, it doesn’t seem to exist as No.18 - ummm!
kiterunner
16-10-21, 14:52
17, 19, 21, etc would have been on the other side of the road from 16 and 22, and 18 if it existed.
17, 19, 21, etc would have been on the other side of the road from 16 and 22, and 18 if it existed.
That’s correct of course.
https://www.google.com/local/place/fid/0x48769b36f32689c1:0xaef60e8b6ec4ecfb/photosphere?iu=//geo2.ggpht.com/cbk?panoid%3DmZn_5YMcBN2je1vRY7vXdQ%26output%3Dthu mbnail%26cb_client%3Dlu.gallery.gps%26thumb%3D2%26 w%3D160%26h%3D106%26yaw%3D70.3198%26pitch%3D0%26th umbfov%3D100&ik=CAISFm1abl81WU1jQk4yamUxdlJZN3ZYZFE%3D
The property (down bottom right) with the red door, and red blinds is 21, which belongs to Mencap, and our theatre sometimes rent a large room for rehearsals. It’s almost opposite no.18, a much more modern house. That’s further down the other side where the blue car is.
kiterunner
16-10-21, 15:39
Here is Kelly's Directory of Reading from 1914 which also jumps from 16 to 22:
http://specialcollections.le.ac.uk/digital/collection/p16445coll4/id/183700/rec/1
(page 105 if the link doesn't take you to the right place.)
Here is Kelly's Directory of Reading from 1914 which also jumps from 16 to
Oh thanks Kite - that great :)
maggie_4_7
16-10-21, 16:31
On the 1911 census unless those pages are missing it jumps from 16 to 22 it looks like 18 and 20 didn't exist.
On 1901 it isn't there 17, 19, 21, 22 and 23 so you may be right its been renumbered and who ever wrote on those photographs probably put the number that is was when they wrote it not realising although it was the same house it was a different number when the photographs were taken.
17, 19, 21, etc would have been on the other side of the road from 16 and 22, and 18 if it existed.
But on the 1901 and other census that I also looked at the numbers were in order as above 22 then went 23, 24, 25. No odds and evens and also on the 1911 census I was looking at the even numbers as above 16 to 22.
maggie_4_7
16-10-21, 16:34
But if they were living there when the photos were taken - and they’re not ‘formal’‘ in any way - just snapshots of people in the garden - they'd know the number of the house :)
But - as you say, it doesn’t seem to exist as No.18 - ummm!
I assumed the photos were not written on at the time they were taken but a lot later in time when someone may have been going through them which has happened in my family when getting photos in order for albums.
kiterunner
16-10-21, 16:39
In 1914 the even numbers were on the north-west side and the odds on the south-east side, but I don't know whether it had been renumbered between 1901 and then.
If the photos and negatives were found in another local house then is it likey the people from the mysterious number 18 had moved there? If we knew the address where the photos were found that might help!
Fair enough if you don't want to post that info, it's just a suggestion. If you feel we could have that info if it was more private, then you could begin a thread on the Sensitive Research board. I would offer to move this thread over, but I'm never convinced a thread can't be found if it begins in a public area!!
maggie_4_7
16-10-21, 17:04
If I remember correctly they didn't officially start numbering houses until 1891 before that houses had names or the enumerator just numbered the houses on the census as he came across them in order of his enumerating.
If the photos and negatives were found in another local house then is it likey the people from the mysterious number 18 had moved there? If we knew the address where the photos were found that might help!
They were found in an outhouse of the house on the (large) estate of a prominent local family. The finder kept them ‘out of curiosity’ and has loaned them to try to find out more about them. The house in question was demolished many decades ago, at the time the photos were found. The estate is now a massive housing estate, no trace of the house exists. Nor the family who owned it, well not in this area. Coincidentally waaay back I did know the grandson of the original owner of the house - but after the estate was sold he went to Australia, and never heard of him since.
However, we are surmising that the owner in Alexandra Road and the estate owner could have been friends - hence the informal photographs of people enjoying themselves in the garden. There’s no reason to think the owner of the house on the large estate, moved to Alexandra Rd. Certainly the grandson didn’t - he lived in the family home.
I assumed the photos were not written on at the time they were taken but a lot later in time when someone may have been going through them which has happened in my family when getting photos in order for albums.
That is of course possible Maggie.
So if the photos were in an outhouse they could have been put there by either the house owner/their family member or by maybe a member of their staff?
Would it be worth seeing of the house was lived in in 1939 and who was there? Or maybe on the erolls betwen 1911 and 1939?
So if the photos were in an outhouse they could have been put there by either the house owner/their family member or by maybe a member of their staff?
Would it be worth seeing of the house was lived in in 1939 and who was there? Or maybe on the erolls betwen 1911 and 1939?
Most likely a member of the family I think, as the majority are of ‘gentry’ :)
With regard to looking at erolls, as said I don’t have access to Ancestry. Neither can I remember exactly the name of the house/estate, but could guess at it….there were many such places around here. I’ll try to find out. I know the name of the owner of them but not much use without the name of the estate.
Well, the owner might do, as the name of the property might be in a probate entry or probate for their parents or the erolls etc
maggie_4_7
16-10-21, 23:14
Most likely a member of the family I think, as the majority are of ‘gentry’ :)
With regard to looking at erolls, as said I don’t have access to Ancestry. Neither can I remember exactly the name of the house/estate, but could guess at it….there were many such places around here. I’ll try to find out. I know the name of the owner of them but not much use without the name of the estate.
Maiden Erlegh House?
Maiden Erlegh House?
No Maggie :)
It was known as the Southlake Estate, or just Southlake. In Woodley, which was a village but is now all part of Reading. I looked last night for more details without success…. As said earlier there were some huge family country estates which got divided, subdivided etc. The family name, at the time, was Clark.
Was it a relatively recent build then (after 1926?)?
South Lake was at one time part of the Bulmershe Estate. When the estate was split up in 1926 the lake and surrounding area were bought by a Mr. Clark, who built South Lake House. The house had an idyllic setting with beautiful lawns, surrounded by specimen trees, with the lake a short walk away. During the war of 1939-45 the house became the temporary home of a London school, which had to move to a place of safety.
Reading Mercury 19 August 1939
Southlake Estate put up for auction by the exors of the late Stanley C Rampton.
260 acres adjoining Earley Station. Two lakes - south, 21 acres, north 15 acres.
Formerly part of the Bulmershe Court Estate.
That was fast: they only got probate 8 August. Wonder if it was sold before war broke out?
Reading Mercury 19 August 1939
Southlake Estate put up for auction by the exors of the late Stanley C Rampton.
260 acres adjoining Earley Station. Two lakes - south, 21 acres, north 15 acres.
Formerly part of the Bulmershe Court Estate.
Thanks again. I suspected it had been part of Bulmershe… that was a huge estate, which changed hands frequently. And was also split and split again. All the estates joined each other surrounding, and in some cases including parts of Reading as it is now. Marriages between the families was common - adding confusion at times….
I don’t know when the house was built - sorry - but part of the plot it sat on is now a Pub. Our house is on part of another adjoining estate, built in 1932, and that estate covered a large part of East Reading including where the hospital is, over 1.5 miles away! I would think Alexandra Rd would have been part of the same estate as the hospital is only 2 or 3 streets away.
I presume there's absolutely no other bits of info on any of the photos? They have bothered with the street name (abreviated) and house number and the date (just the year?) but no names at all?!!
I presume there's absolutely no other bits of info on any of the photos? They have bothered with the street name (abreviated) and house number and the date (just the year?) but no names at all?!!
No, no names just initials.
Oooh, initials!! Do you know what they are?
Oooh, initials!! Do you know what they are?
I’ll have to come back to you, there’s an awful lot, as there’s photos of these people at other places around town… same people largely just in different locations.
Oooh, initials!! Do you know what they are?
Please see email from me. :)
Dorothy has sent me some of the photos in question.
This picture is taken either in a front garden or an empty plot with the opposite side of Alexandra Road in the background (number 13). The garden where the lady is sitting is now 18 Alexandra Road and the building wall you can see on the left of the image is the side wall of a house currently numbered 16.
At first I thought the lady might be sitting in the back garden of a property in the next street to Alexandra Road and that I was looking at the back of a house in the background, over a garden wall. Having looked at Google Earth, the back of 13 Alexandra Road doesn't have the gables to the rear elevation, only on the front, so that must be the front of the house from across the road. The wall behind the lady looks a bit high for the front wall of a house, but not if the entire plot was being used as a garden, so that fits with her sitting on an empty plot, 18 Alexandra Road.
https://db3pap001files.storage.live.com/y4mcr-pTR1kILxqviZmmx8nD9GT-XP7tcXwhsXMHQDAXxPl8EMwKi4_vK8pdmn1B2AhUIldoAMKizV F4Gs79w3OrgbKdigHQp97LowARd8JpvoO1MbtPUXFRsLB9WLae PpVOp-u2NyyOcWg47gb2d1OzMz4xy9sQUcnJCT5RMZxUN4R9-9yohWIG3c6t4aa239-?width=400&height=266&cropmode=none
This is a shot of the front of 13 Alexandra Road as it looks now:
https://db3pap001files.storage.live.com/y4mdUCfr2iDWOyMZ0QcKsg9q-E7WWTyHu-dbupuwNGtt6orlLH_L3I04RJxsnl4uxTiKc2gVXvxBA6ZObqAT 5rRl3f_pREoup-SR4xfI-3brJBrmFLTndgSEivcXn6l0kpPOyJ1KcBVUy_En_Yceg4y8VAc v-KZVKZnz1P5JC4Nt7PMDm2fmp02NInd-WKV26Q3?width=400&height=233&cropmode=none
More to follow.......
Here are some people out for a car ride!
https://db3pap001files.storage.live.com/y4mO4Dyweo7zkbLskLNJgtl33Xi5XfQk7IcHATwtsQOW44NDwJ TBIk0OJEQzaqBQbV2IA4wuipnSvYYW0c7HGIgkWOkfVsmaE6Nc nrnB0T3f66mK5UNG0DRqh44sBMxHIk3uuseXEd0UyqxwRhl08f H9fJ1kqn7IS18Ce-Qg3RPp3ZJvz_jIrjiOp81c8nsxVwh?width=400&height=230&cropmode=none
And here's what the indexing of the photos looks like!! Pity they didn't have tidier handwriting:
https://db3pap001files.storage.live.com/y4mODq4O1VqmCUimJ2D1wFlQM_tPOGZw9bjRufRltwM96A79M1 97N1jbA8cPBEbnkOsMeVi8IcdTxJE5qIhJe7ISrAz52K10RZqy w9qf5H672dANAXlTG-xamu_mB5QgDdB5SfrR7hNfq8Adc3FrEtky-vNaLx5QKD6UUAZYYpK84-WO9x9_-X10NhnGONof7yF?width=400&height=300&cropmode=none
https://db3pap001files.storage.live.com/y4mt8s_iHiwPSrsauEzRuACXYreGp2nZa22BDX9WQVAV-1cP1PjdIOy9SeBnz-849_kWHPL-cX8ZNzN1Z0pJtSRHPyOQONQ5jAFPY8mq3kkqFmBmC3YHN776GH jxY4ZOKufpxS9bvXkpVeoyyDfSpkk4Ob2911ama7UFG6ICI-gli1ZF2e4Lzb3FtWlDETrcRVV?width=692&height=519&cropmode=none
https://db3pap001files.storage.live.com/y4mHlhnD67_wlsGdq-HL1fSaXtj1OofdcAXuTaS7VB31fqYBPnG7KggY7SWFoW2jM6ze pq1dOBwWOz_eIdcGDomfvs9h7IjMleWl1sb6MCIvIlKBzSj83d 9O4T2rz8fb7ZU-xIUCpAFTrfpADWEXgL-Pfjk82DM-XBduQsALesQFiGm4PnIFF9tS0d2goRaAKoy?width=692&height=519&cropmode=none
Dorothy, I had assumed the numbers on the two photos, 22 and 84, would relate to the index numbers, but if that's the case, I don't understand why someone has written 'Little Boys' against 84 when there are no little boys in the photo? Do you have an index record for 22?
I forgot to mention, I did compare the current street numbering with the Kelly's Directory Kate posted and the numbers are the same where other roads cross Alexandra Road so I dont think the street has been renumbered.
Oh, is image 1 on the list the image that says 22 on the front?!! lol
1913 Summer
DMS (with dog)
????
maggie_4_7
18-10-21, 08:59
Oh, is image 1 on the list the image that says 22 on the front?!! lol
1913 Summer
DMS (with dog)
????
I think that is house number 22 because the lady is sitting in an empty plot of 20 and 18 and the next house would be 16 on the left of the photo facing camera. It looks like a stamp mark.
Names I can maybe make out from the list:
Benjamin Bird?
Mabel and Wm Deacon
Ted and George
Evelyn and Wm
P and Annie
Edward and George Montague? < on reflection, I don't think that is their surname
EDIT Dorothy says refs to Roebuck may be a pub.
I take it that the original images were black and white and someone has played with colouring them in?
I see DMS appear several times. I don't suppose any of the images show a wedding ring (or lack of)?
Also knowing the rough ages of some of them might help.
Merry — thanks for posting all the images :)
Numbering of photos - apparently there had been in the past, some attempt at indexing them but friend found the numbers on the photos didn’t relate to the indexes…. So he’s attempting to re-list them in some sort of order.
Well done in ‘translating’ some of the awful handwriting into names!
The Roebuck is a pub, the other side of Reading - you would have needed transport to get there - at the time, bicycle, horse & cart, too far out for local omnibus - or a posh car! :) there is of course now a bus ….
There is amongst the many other photos - one of two little boys standing near a motorcycle - he mentioned he’d put that on Facebook to find out the make of the cycle ….. I haven’t seen it.
Ah, interesting to learn she is sitting in a front garden… it was the high wall that made me think it was the back….
So yes, maybe sitting in the garden of No.16, which could have been very large, and was subsequently split, to build the modern Nos. 18/20…..? …. Or as Maggie says, maybe sitting in No.22?
I take it that the original images were black and white and someone has played with colouring them in?
This is what friend posted on our local town forum (where I’m a Moderator) - he knows I’m particularly interested in local history…….
The pictures are just a few from a collection of very old negatives (1913?) which I have been lent, and part of the “index” which goes with them. (The Roebuck, for example, is mentioned as the apparent location of several pictures)
However, since there is no number on the actual negatives, it is quite possible that these have been put back at some time in the “wrong” numbered pocket and so the title (even if you can read it !) may not apply)…..However, I have added the number to each picture so you can see which folder it came from.
I have changed some of the negatives into B&W positives and, in some cases, colourised the result.
It’s a long shot, but I wonder if anyone recognizes the people or places
That’s why I took up the challenge :d
Thanks to everyone for helping me!
maggie_4_7
18-10-21, 11:09
Names I can maybe make out from the list:
Benjamin Bird?
Mabel and Wm Deacon
Ted and George
Evelyn and Wm
P and Annie
Edward and George Montague? < on reflection, I don't think that is their surname
EDIT Dorothy says refs to Roebuck may be a pub.
At the top of second image I think it says Group at Wantage and then repeated.
There is a pub named the Roebuck but there is or was also a Roebuck Hotel in Oxford Rd.
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the 'at XYZ's are the names of houses. Of course if I can read them (eg The Elms) they are completey commonplace!
What does it say for number 88.... something field, beginning with A?
At the top of second image I think it says Group at Wantage and then repeated.
There is a pub named the Roebuck but there is or was also a Roebuck Hotel in Oxford Rd.
It’s The Roebuck in Oxford Road (Reading) I was referring to. At one time it was very popular (in my lifetime) but I think it’s now closed.
I didn’t know there is one in Wantage :)
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Roebuck_Hotel,_Oxford_Road,_Tilehurst,_19 04.jpg
https://pubwiki.co.uk/Berkshire/Tilehurst/RoebuckHotel.shtml
maggie_4_7
18-10-21, 11:36
It’s The Roebuck in Oxford Road (Reading) I was referring to. At one time it was very popular (in my lifetime) but I think it’s now closed.
I didn’t know there is one in Wantage :)
No not at Wantage different subject entirely, I was just saying that's what I think it says at top of the second image.
The Roebuck Pub is in Auckland Rd, Reading.
There is a Mabel and William Deacon at The Ponds House, Oxford Rd in 1939.
No not at Wantage different subject entirely, I was just saying that's what I think it says at top of the second image.
The Roebuck Pub is in Auckland Rd, Reading.
There is a Mabel and William Deacon at The Ponds House, Oxford Rd in 1939.
Maggie, see I’ve added images above.
The Ponds House - is still there, on the same road as The Roebuck, but actually in Reading (now) … but again at the time the photos were taken would have meant having transport to get there.
Maybe the family who’s photos we’re discussing, were friends with the landlords/owners of the two pub/hotels?
The Roebuck in Auckland Road, is in a network of back streets in East Reading - pleasant, but much more a ‘local’ than the one in Oxford Rd, and much much smaller - and no where near the Thames.
There is a Mabel and William Deacon at The Ponds House, Oxford Rd in 1939.
They were the only fit I could find, but if he's the carpenter and joiner, they didn't marry until 1917 (and not in Reading).
Of course it might not be the names of a husband and wife, but that didn't help much with the 1911 census as there are no nearby Mabel Deacons of any age!
maggie_4_7
18-10-21, 11:54
Maggie, see I’ve added images above.
The Ponds House - is still there, on the same road as The Roebuck, but actually in Reading (now) … but again at the time the photos were taken would have meant having transport to get there.
Maybe the family who’s photos we’re discussing, were friends with the landlords/owners of the two pub/hotels?
The Roebuck in Auckland Road, is in a network of back streets in East Reading - pleasant, but much more a ‘local’ than the one in Oxford Rd, and much much smaller - and no where near the Thames.
I think it refers to the Oxford Rd one.
Link to Mabel and William on the 1939 register.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/779397:61596?tid=&pid=&queryId=e8f602ded12522ddabdc9bf1fb6087b7&_phsrc=WyY3065&_phstart=successSource
I think the photos must span a few decades.
I think it refers to the Oxford Rd one.
Link to Mabel and William on the 1939 register.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/779397:61596?tid=&pid=&queryId=e8f602ded12522ddabdc9bf1fb6087b7&_phsrc=WyY3065&_phstart=successSource
I think the photos must span a few decades.
I’d say definitely the Oxford Rd one, although the one in Auckland Rd would be much closer to the people, I really don’t think they’d have gone there! :)
What makes you think the photos cover a few decades?
A William and Evelyn Bramfitt are living in St Edwards Road in 1911, which looks bang on top of the Roebuck.
William Bramfitt Head Married Male 42 1869 Grocers manager Bradford Yorks
Evelyn Bramfitt Wife Married Female 41 1870 - Ilsley Berks
Elsie Katherine Bramfitt Daughter - Female 10 1901 School Reading Berks
William Hilton Bramfitt Son - Male 7 1904 - Reading Berks
Lillian Ethel Bramfitt Daughter - Female 5 1906 - Reading Berks
Sydney Edmund Bramfitt Son - Male 1 1910 - Reading Berks
A William and Evelyn Bramfitt are living in St Edwards Road in 1911, which looks bang on top of the Roebuck.
Agree St. Edwards is in the same network of roads, but would probably take 10 minutes walk to get to The Roebuck in Auckland Rd. I think the whole area was built late 19thC - the houses are nearly all terrace homes, so not very big.
maggie_4_7
18-10-21, 14:05
Dorothy has sent me some of the photos in question.
This picture is taken either in a front garden or an empty plot with the opposite side of Alexandra Road in the background (number 13). The garden where the lady is sitting is now 18 Alexandra Road and the building wall you can see on the left of the image is the side wall of a house currently numbered 16.
At first I thought the lady might be sitting in the back garden of a property in the next street to Alexandra Road and that I was looking at the back of a house in the background, over a garden wall. Having looked at Google Earth, the back of 13 Alexandra Road doesn't have the gables to the rear elevation, only on the front, so that must be the front of the house from across the road. The wall behind the lady looks a bit high for the front wall of a house, but not if the entire plot was being used as a garden, so that fits with her sitting on an empty plot, 18 Alexandra Road.
https://db3pap001files.storage.live.com/y4mcr-pTR1kILxqviZmmx8nD9GT-XP7tcXwhsXMHQDAXxPl8EMwKi4_vK8pdmn1B2AhUIldoAMKizV F4Gs79w3OrgbKdigHQp97LowARd8JpvoO1MbtPUXFRsLB9WLae PpVOp-u2NyyOcWg47gb2d1OzMz4xy9sQUcnJCT5RMZxUN4R9-9yohWIG3c6t4aa239-?width=400&height=266&cropmode=none
This is a shot of the front of 13 Alexandra Road as it looks now:
https://db3pap001files.storage.live.com/y4mdUCfr2iDWOyMZ0QcKsg9q-E7WWTyHu-dbupuwNGtt6orlLH_L3I04RJxsnl4uxTiKc2gVXvxBA6ZObqAT 5rRl3f_pREoup-SR4xfI-3brJBrmFLTndgSEivcXn6l0kpPOyJ1KcBVUy_En_Yceg4y8VAc v-KZVKZnz1P5JC4Nt7PMDm2fmp02NInd-WKV26Q3?width=400&height=233&cropmode=none
More to follow.......
Looking at the first photo, I think it looks more like a back garden and the house it belongs to is in the road running parallel to Alexandra Rd. It's possible there were buildings or a building on that land at some point but it was demolished and the owners of that house owned it or bought it and extended their property/back garden across it and up to the boundary of Alexandra Road.
Looking at the first photo, I think it looks more like a back garden and the house it belongs to is in the road running parallel to Alexandra Rd. It's possible there were buildings or a building on that land at some point but it was demolished and the owners of that house owned it or bought it and extended their property/back garden across it and up to the boundary of Alexandra Road.
That was my thinking too Maggie. The road that runs parallel, next along from Alexandra Road, is Denmark Road, for one side, and Donnington Road for the other side, and the houses have very long back gardens, and on the map it looks like there’s been some infill on some of it at some point.
https://www.reading-forum.co.uk/forum/download/file.php?id=10243&mode=view
maggie_4_7
18-10-21, 14:37
That looks like a pomeranian dog, they were popular then and Queen Victoria had quite a few, my grandmother had one. It looks very interested in something to side is that photograph the right way around? The woman looks like a servant.
That looks like a pomeranian dog, they were popular then and Queen Victoria had quite a few, my grandmother had one. It looks very interested in something to side is that photograph the right way around? The woman looks like a servant.
I thought she looked like a Maid too :)
Another index page
https://www.reading-forum.co.uk/forum/download/file.php?id=10246&mode=view
Circled - Lady in the garden of the house opposite
….?
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the 'at XYZ's are the names of houses. Of course if I can read them (eg The Elms) they are completey commonplace!
What does it say for number 88.... something field, beginning with A?
Sorry - missed this earlier - it’s Arborfield - a small (even smaller then) village just outside Reading - very rural (but gradually getting built upon!)
Looking at the first photo, I think it looks more like a back garden and the house it belongs to is in the road running parallel to Alexandra Rd. It's possible there were buildings or a building on that land at some point but it was demolished and the owners of that house owned it or bought it and extended their property/back garden across it and up to the boundary of Alexandra Road.
But I thought the point was the address for this photo is 18 Alexandra Road? (and that's the view from that address)
Oh, but I've just realised the caption for that photo is the woman's initials and dog. So now I'm confused!! lol
I still think that house is the front of 13 Alexandra Road because it is a perfect match.
maggie_4_7
18-10-21, 17:23
But I thought the point was the address for this photo is 18 Alexandra Road? (and that's the view from that address)
Yes I know but I have my doubts.
Oh, but I've just realised the caption for that photo is the woman's initials and dog. So now I'm confused!! lol
I still think that house is the front of 13 Alexandra Road because it is a perfect match.
Why are you confused?
In which case she’s sitting in the garden of the house opposite which was probably at No.16 at that time (as there was no 18 apparently)and had a large plot/garden - the house opposite is no.13 …. numbers run up from the London Road, and 13 is on the left side, even numbers on the right.
kiterunner
18-10-21, 18:55
Merry, I'm guessing the address is written on the back of the photo but wasn't put in the index.
Why are you confused?
In which case she’s sitting in the garden of the house opposite which was probably at No.16 at that time (as there was no 18 apparently)and had a large plot/garden - the house opposite is no.13 …. numbers run up from the London Road, and 13 is on the left side, even numbers on the right.
I just wondered how you know the address for the photo of the woman and dog is 18 Alexandra Road? I think the location of the photo is that address, but Maggie thinks it isn't. That's what led me to wonder!
maggie_4_7
18-10-21, 22:33
I just wondered how you know the address for the photo of the woman and dog is 18 Alexandra Road? I think the location of the photo is that address, but Maggie thinks it isn't. That's what led me to wonder!
I meant that the garden isn't number 18 because as far as we can tell there was no number 18 there at that time, so I am confused as to why someone either wrote number 18 at the time or assumed it was number 18 when they wrote it later. I think it is where number 18 would be but that's the mystery it isn't actually there, it's a patch of grass/garden.
When I was young we lived in a road at number 10. Our nextdoor neighbours were at number 6 and they had also purchased plot number 8 to extend their garden. We always referred to this extra plot as number 8 even though there was nothing built on it. I can just imagine if it had been in a photo we might well have written Number 8 on the back!
maggie_4_7
18-10-21, 22:55
Why are you confused?
In which case she’s sitting in the garden of the house opposite which was probably at No.16 at that time (as there was no 18 apparently)and had a large plot/garden - the house opposite is no.13 …. numbers run up from the London Road, and 13 is on the left side, even numbers on the right.
Are there any other photos of gardens from a different angle with the same type of garden chair as the one in the photo of the woman holding the dog.
I've looked at the people living at 22 Alexandra Road (house was sometimes called Monckton), given, if the dog photo is of the garden between them and 16 (and I'm not saying it is!), I note there is a garden wall to the left of the photo separating the garden from the side of number 16, suggesting the garden could belong to number 22.
The people at 22 lived there a long time. They had already arrived in 1901 and were still there in 1939.
They were the unmarried children of John Robert Rice Coombs (d 1892) and his wife, Sarah Louisa (d 1894). The children I've seen so far are Annie Louisa Coombs 1853-1948, Edward Landon Coombs 1865-1943 and Alfred Baker Coombs 1863-1930. In 1901 and 1911 they had the same unmarried servant, Florence Emily Grimshaw.
So, none of them appear to have the same intials as BSC (?) in the photo index! All but one of the Coombs family left a will, but there's no further clues in the probate index.
Are there any other photos of gardens from a different angle with the same type of garden chair as the one in the photo of the woman holding the dog.
I haven’t seen all the photos, so I’ll ask :)
maggie_4_7
19-10-21, 10:37
Looking at the first photo, I think it looks more like a back garden and the house it belongs to is in the road running parallel to Alexandra Rd. It's possible there were buildings or a building on that land at some point but it was demolished and the owners of that house owned it or bought it and extended their property/back garden across it and up to the boundary of Alexandra Road.
That was my thinking too Maggie. The road that runs parallel, next along from Alexandra Road, is Denmark Road, for one side, and Donnington Road for the other side, and the houses have very long back gardens, and on the map it looks like there’s been some infill on some of it at some point.
https://www.reading-forum.co.uk/forum/download/file.php?id=10243&mode=view
This why I am doubtful that the woman in the photo lives in Alexandra Road or is at number 18, see Dorothy's post above.
The boundary seems to be the garden of a house in Denmark Road which is 23 and 25 Denmark Road which I think may have been one large house then.
....
I am getting totally lost on this!
Looking for the umpteenth time at the map and the photo, I agree with Maggie, but is the woman DMS or BSC?
I find the colouring distracting, and am so irritated by all that ivy that hides the corners of things.
Given that the woman is sitting on an enormous roller, rather than that (frankly uncomfortable) rustic chair, I assume there must have been an enormous lawn to justify its existence.
This why I am doubtful that the woman in the photo lives in Alexandra Road or is at number 18, see Dorothy's post above.
The boundary seems to be the garden of a house in Denmark Road which is 23 and 25 Denmark Road which I think may have been one large house then.
I am getting totally lost on this!
Looking for the umpteenth time at the map and the photo, I agree with Maggie, but is the woman DMS or BSC?
I find the colouring distracting, and am so irritated by all that ivy that hides the corners of things.
Given that the woman is sitting on an enormous roller, rather than that (frankly uncomfortable) rustic chair, I assume there must have been an enormous lawn to justify its existence.
I’m inclined to agree Maggie.
Phoenix, I’ve commented the same about the roller - far too big for that little bit of lawn she’s sitting on!
maggie_4_7
19-10-21, 11:33
I am getting totally lost on this!
Looking for the umpteenth time at the map and the photo, I agree with Maggie, but is the woman DMS or BSC?
I find the colouring distracting, and am so irritated by all that ivy that hides the corners of things.
Given that the woman is sitting on an enormous roller, rather than that (frankly uncomfortable) rustic chair, I assume there must have been an enormous lawn to justify its existence.
I assume the person that took the photo (and I think it was a woman) was sitting in that chair and is probably one of the residents rather than a servant which this woman looks like.
Looking at the map Dorothy posted on the bend of Denmark Road is a white space that is still green land which on Google has a couple of cars and table and chairs which is probably the property of the last house on the bend.
...
If the house in the background isn't 13 Alexandra Road (is that what everyone else is saying?) then what places the photo anywhere? Is the address (18 AR) actually on the back of the photo?
maggie_4_7
19-10-21, 11:49
If the house in the background isn't 13 Alexandra Road (is that what everyone else is saying?) then what places the photo anywhere? Is the address (18 AR) actually on the back of the photo?
No I think it is but the garden is a house in Denmark Road and the garden wall boundary appears to be on Alexandra Road facing number 13.
Edit to say: I could be wrong of course.
I think she is sitting in the garden of 23 Denmark Road.
You can see on this map (https://maps.nls.uk/view/104197882) the gable end of the house on the left and the outbuilding on the right. In 1911 William Henry Short and family are at this address.
I like your logic, Maggie!
But, the taker of the photograph would not have indexed it as DMS with dog, but as Smith with Fido.
Do we think that the servant acquired the photo and then one of her relations indexed it?
It would be so helpful to see all the photos, in their unaltered states, front and back.
Best Mate allowed a friend to extra all the photos from an old album. They pored over them together - and then had no idea how they were originally arranged.
When I finally got my hands on it, what we had assumed to be family photos included music hall stars and the marriages of royalty! And since there were photos from both sides of her family, we had no idea who the unidentified images might relate to.
If the house in the background isn't 13 Alexandra Road (is that what everyone else is saying?) then what places the photo anywhere? Is the address (18 AR) actually on the back of the photo?
I only did that Google screenshot of No.13 a couple of days ago… I know No.21 (as said earlier), so counted down from that. It’s just possible that one of houses is a semi-det, thus making it No.11, but I don’t think so.
No I think it is but the garden is a house in Denmark Road and the garden wall boundary appears to be on Alexandra Road facing number 13.
Edit to say: I could be wrong of course.
That’s my thinking too. :)
If I’ve got a chance, (not at the weekend - traffic is dreadful) I may get a chance to drive over there and actually look at all the houses :)
Once again, thanks for everyone’s help - I really didn’t expect it to cause so much confusion, thinking it was just a case of looking to see who lived No.18 in 1911 :d
maggie_4_7
19-10-21, 12:05
Here are some people out for a car ride!
https://db3pap001files.storage.live.com/y4mO4Dyweo7zkbLskLNJgtl33Xi5XfQk7IcHATwtsQOW44NDwJ TBIk0OJEQzaqBQbV2IA4wuipnSvYYW0c7HGIgkWOkfVsmaE6Nc nrnB0T3f66mK5UNG0DRqh44sBMxHIk3uuseXEd0UyqxwRhl08f H9fJ1kqn7IS18Ce-Qg3RPp3ZJvz_jIrjiOp81c8nsxVwh?width=400&height=230&cropmode=none
And here's what the indexing of the photos looks like!! Pity they didn't have tidier handwriting:
https://db3pap001files.storage.live.com/y4mODq4O1VqmCUimJ2D1wFlQM_tPOGZw9bjRufRltwM96A79M1 97N1jbA8cPBEbnkOsMeVi8IcdTxJE5qIhJe7ISrAz52K10RZqy w9qf5H672dANAXlTG-xamu_mB5QgDdB5SfrR7hNfq8Adc3FrEtky-vNaLx5QKD6UUAZYYpK84-WO9x9_-X10NhnGONof7yF?width=400&height=300&cropmode=none
https://db3pap001files.storage.live.com/y4mt8s_iHiwPSrsauEzRuACXYreGp2nZa22BDX9WQVAV-1cP1PjdIOy9SeBnz-849_kWHPL-cX8ZNzN1Z0pJtSRHPyOQONQ5jAFPY8mq3kkqFmBmC3YHN776GH jxY4ZOKufpxS9bvXkpVeoyyDfSpkk4Ob2911ama7UFG6ICI-gli1ZF2e4Lzb3FtWlDETrcRVV?width=692&height=519&cropmode=none
https://db3pap001files.storage.live.com/y4mHlhnD67_wlsGdq-HL1fSaXtj1OofdcAXuTaS7VB31fqYBPnG7KggY7SWFoW2jM6ze pq1dOBwWOz_eIdcGDomfvs9h7IjMleWl1sb6MCIvIlKBzSj83d 9O4T2rz8fb7ZU-xIUCpAFTrfpADWEXgL-Pfjk82DM-XBduQsALesQFiGm4PnIFF9tS0d2goRaAKoy?width=692&height=519&cropmode=none
On the first image with writing it says Group in garden 23 D Rd. Does anyone have that photo?
I think it is Denmark Road.
In 1911 this is the family at 23 Denmark Rd.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/2352/images/rg14_06595_0421_03?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=477b0317b7bb2a486ff4d31b65a730dc&usePUB=true&_phsrc=iox1&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.152113081.1683715159.1634499886-1530794933.1619549124&_gac=1.161871438.1633853263.Cj0KCQjwnoqLBhD4ARIsAL 5JedITZaQClgbqyI3MwR10vhRw6S81pDwKYe1H5_KFLBtQk7fY hT0IL_IaAsSGEALw_wcB&pId=44546965
maggie_4_7
19-10-21, 12:47
I like your logic, Maggie!
But, the taker of the photograph would not have indexed it as DMS with dog, but as Smith with Fido.
Do we think that the servant acquired the photo and then one of her relations indexed it?
It would be so helpful to see all the photos, in their unaltered states, front and back.
Best Mate allowed a friend to extra all the photos from an old album. They pored over them together - and then had no idea how they were originally arranged.
When I finally got my hands on it, what we had assumed to be family photos included music hall stars and the marriages of royalty! And since there were photos from both sides of her family, we had no idea who the unidentified images might relate to.
DMS could be Domestic Martha Sims on 1911 census, just a thought.
kiterunner
19-10-21, 12:49
I am pretty confused by this whole thread, but if the woman in the photo is in the garden of a house on another road, not Alexandra Road, wouldn't there be two roads between her and the house behind her?
maggie_4_7
19-10-21, 13:00
Published 1912 both 23 and 25 back gardens went right through to Alexandra Road.
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/?#zoom=18.487596482352195&lat=51.45092&lon=-0.95311&layers=168&b=5
Oooh, that Short family from Denmark Road say four living children in 1911, bt only three sons in the hosue. Same on prev two censuses.
BUT they had a daughter in 1895 - Dorothy May Short - DMS!! She is a niece in 1901 and a pupil in 1911 and never with her parents.
:D:D:D
kiterunner
19-10-21, 13:02
Well done, Merry!
kiterunner
19-10-21, 13:02
Published 1912 both 23 and 25 back gardens went right through to Alexandra Road.
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/?#zoom=18.487596482352195&lat=51.45092&lon=-0.95311&layers=168&b=5
Thanks, Maggie. I understand it now!
maggie_4_7
19-10-21, 13:03
I am pretty confused by this whole thread, but if the woman in the photo is in the garden of a house on another road, not Alexandra Road, wouldn't there be two roads between her and the house behind her?
No only one, the one in front of number 13 Alexandra Road, the back garden wall boundary of 23 or 25 Denmark Road went to Alexandra Road itself giving the view of number 13 Alexandra Road from their back garden.
maggie_4_7
19-10-21, 13:03
Oooh, that Short family from Denmark Road say four living children in 1911, bt only three sons in the hosue. Same on prev two censuses.
BUT they had a daughter in 1895 - Dorothy May Short - DMS!! She is a neice in 1901 and a pupil in 1911 and never with her parents.
:D:D:D
Well done.
I am pretty confused by this whole thread, but if the woman in the photo is in the garden of a house on another road, not Alexandra Road, wouldn't there be two roads between her and the house behind her?
I think we are all agreed that there were two plots of land on AR not built on. I had assumed they would 'belong to one of the hosues on either side - ie numbers 16 or 22. However, it's been pointed out (:D) that another alternative is that a house on Denmark Road might have not just it's own back garden, but also the land behind that, which would be the land inbetween 16 and 22 Alexander Road (or part of that land, the part closer to 16 Alexander Road)
EDIT - As Maggie has already said!!!
I do like the idea of Dorothy May Short being DMS. If the photo was taken in 1913 then she would be 18 years old.
And she married Benjamin S Clark in 1916. Wasn't it a Clark who built that big house?
lol BSC! Benjamin Sidney Clark
maggie_4_7
19-10-21, 13:24
And she married Benjamin S Clark in 1916. Wasn't it a Clark who built that big house?
lol BSC! Benjamin Sidney Clark
Not sure about house build but well done on names.
Back at the start there was talk of some stately home, South Lake House? Google said it was built by someone called Clark (prob not this Benjamin who was a biscuit manufacturer living in Wokingham in 1939), and the photos were found in his outhouse, or at least an outhouse at South Lake House.
Wasn't Huntley and Palmer at reading? My g-g-grandfather worked for them in the 1890s. Sorry, I'm off on a tangent!
maggie_4_7
19-10-21, 13:31
No Maggie :)
It was known as the Southlake Estate, or just Southlake. In Woodley, which was a village but is now all part of Reading. I looked last night for more details without success…. As said earlier there were some huge family country estates which got divided, subdivided etc. The family name, at the time, was Clark.
Back at the start there was talk of some stately home, South Lake House? Google said it was built by someone called Clark (prob not this Benjamin who was a biscuit manufacturer living in Wokingham in 1939), and the photos were found in his outhouse, or at least an outhouse at South Lake House.
Wasn't Huntley and Palmer at reading? My g-g-grandfather worked for them in the 1890s. Sorry, I'm off on a tangent!
Yes see Dorothy's post.
William Short on 1911 at 23 is a biscuit manufacturer.
Haha!! BSC died at South Lake House in 1965 :D << Edit - no, he didn't die there, but he was 'of South Lake House, Woodley'
Ben Clark, chairman of the education committee and owner of Woodley Hill House, Earley and South Lake House, Woodley:
https://old.woodleyhilloldboys.org.uk/html/school_history.html
maggie_4_7
19-10-21, 13:45
Ben Clark, chairman of the education committee and owner of Woodley Hill House, Earley and South Lake House, Woodley:
https://old.woodleyhilloldboys.org.uk/html/school_history.html
There is a photo on a family tree of both Benjamin and Dorothy but when they were much older.
Edit:
Yes I think it is Dorothy in those photos at 23 Denmark Road, well done Merry.
.....
Maggie, I wouldn't have got her without the rest of you banging on about Denmark Road, until I was forced to properly read all the posts again and discovered Denmark Road was the other side of Alexandra Road - I had got mixed up with Donnington (?) Road :o:o:o
In 1911 Benjamin Clark was living with his parents at The Elms, Wantage!!
maggie_4_7
19-10-21, 14:07
In 1911 Benjamin Clark was living with his parents at The Elms, Wantage!!
I suspect all the photos are of the family and extended family at various places around that area.
It's a shame the descendents of the family don't have them.
The Group at Wantage photo, we haven't see it but it's on the list with the house name The Elms.
maggie_4_7
19-10-21, 14:12
It wasn't Mabel and William Deacon written on that list it was Mabel at <somewhere>, Benjamin has a sister Mabel and a brother Ted also mentioned on that list!
I am looking at the tree.
maggie_4_7
19-10-21, 14:16
On the first image with writing it says Group in garden 23 D Rd. Does anyone have that photo?
I think it is Denmark Road.
In 1911 this is the family at 23 Denmark Rd.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/2352/images/rg14_06595_0421_03?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=477b0317b7bb2a486ff4d31b65a730dc&usePUB=true&_phsrc=iox1&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.152113081.1683715159.1634499886-1530794933.1619549124&_gac=1.161871438.1633853263.Cj0KCQjwnoqLBhD4ARIsAL 5JedITZaQClgbqyI3MwR10vhRw6S81pDwKYe1H5_KFLBtQk7fY hT0IL_IaAsSGEALw_wcB&pId=44546965
Pity we haven't seen the photo that I mentioned earlier in this post!
It wasn't Mabel and William Deacon written on that list it was Mabel at <somewhere>, Benjamin has a sister Mabel and a brother Ted also mentioned on that list!
I am looking at the tree.
Yes, I just spent an age trying to marry off sister Mabel to someone (anyone!), but she died in 1974 unmarried.
It's all coming together now.
There is a photo on a family tree of both Benjamin and Dorothy but when they were much older.
Took me an age to find it! IMHO she doesn't look dissimilar to the photo with the dog!
Of passing interest...
Yorkshire Post and Leeds Intelligencer 19 June 1936
Dorothy's father, Wm Hy Short of Woodey, was an alderman and chairman and MD of Serpell and Co biscuit manufacturers. He had started work with this company as an office boy. (this s from a report of his estate worth £83,000)
Reading Evening Post 29 October 1965
BSC was an OBE and a JP. He died whilst convalescing at Torquay.
maggie_4_7
19-10-21, 15:29
Took me an age to find it! IMHO she doesn't look dissimilar to the photo with the dog!
Oh I said Ben had a brother Ted I can't see him now!
maggie_4_7
19-10-21, 15:31
Of passing interest...
Yorkshire Post and Leeds Intelligencer 19 June 1936
Dorothy's father, Wm Hy Short of Woodey, was an alderman and chairman and MD of Serpell and Co biscuit manufacturers. He had started work with this company as an office boy. (this s from a report of his estate worth £83,000)
Reading Evening Post 29 October 1965
BSC was an OBE and a JP. He died whilst convalescing at Torquay.
The factory had a big fire in 1904, it was taken over by Huntley and Palmer at some point.
Yes, also BSC's father was a flour miller (plus his sons in 1911), so presumably selling to the biscuit people!
maggie_4_7
19-10-21, 15:49
Took me an age to find it! IMHO she doesn't look dissimilar to the photo with the dog!
I must say Dorothy is dressed very dowdy in that 1913 photo for a daughter of a fairly well off family. I thought she was a servant.
Not everyone is interested in fashion. She looks just like my great aunts, b around 1890-1900. Same hair, hobble skirt and homemade blouse! They were not wealthy, but well off enough to sent the eldest girl to the Royal College of Music.
Wow, the two of you have been busy! Amazing how it is all falling into place.
I did the same sort of thing years ago, but we had the actual album to work from. A Dutch bookseller had come across it in a flea market over there, and we managed to sort out the family for him, and the names of the various friends. Very rewarding.
To echo Phoenix - WOW! You’ve both been so busy and come up with some remarkable results! As said, it’s falling into place… and the connection to Benjamin Clark.
Yes Serpells was a biscuit factory (South Street, Reading.) Hearsay (way back) has it wasn’t well received - almost scorned, by H&P. The Palmers were a very important family, ultimately owned a lot of land in and around the town - even had a huge housing development built for its workers - several thousand by that time. Part of their land was gifted to Reading as a Public Park, where there’s a big statue of Richard Palmer. The Mr Huntley at some point split and founded another huge company, Huntley, Bourne & Stevens, which made biscuit tins (some very collectible now!) but also was sold circa 1970s.
… was amused to see Dorothy May Short - they’re my Christian names too :)
I’ll pass all your findings over to my Forum friend, who’ll no doubt be as amazed as me.
Thank you!
Reading Evening Post 23 February 1966
Benjamin Clark was the chairman of Reading Magistrates. He left £45,000 at his death in 1965. He left £200 to the council of Taunton School for annual prizes in Mathematics and Science. He was chairman and MD of Serpalls Ltd and chairman of the Reading and District Employment Committee and for 21 years chairman of Earley Parish Council.
Reading Evening Post 08 June 1966
When Dorothy died it was mentioned she was of South Lake House, but the clipping does also say by this date most of the land was covered by a housing estate.
Just to clarify - DMS was Dorothy Mary not Dorothy May. My typo. She was also born in 1894 not 1895. I think I was overexcited with my 2 fingered typing!! Apologies :o
Just to clarify - DMS was Dorothy Mary not Dorothy May. My typo. She was also born in 1894 not 1895. I think I was overexcited with my 2 fingered typing!! Apologies :o
Aw well, never mind :)
Reading Evening Post 08 June 1966
When Dorothy died it was mentioned she was of South Lake House, but the clipping does also say by this date most of the land was covered by a housing estate.
Just out of curiosity I looked - the South Lake estate -
“South Lake has an area of 1.58 square kilometers which represents 1% of the total area of Wokingham.”
Population 5,600.”
- it’s a lot of houses! A mix of semi-dets and detached. Average price £440,000.
No idea what the land was sold for, but a nice little earner for the developer!
So quite an estate!
I think Ben Clark bought South Lake in 1944 (250 acres).
then:
Reading Standard 24 April 1959
James T Cook and Son Ltd paid £90,000 to £100,000 for 100 acres from Ben Clark and were looking to build between 600 and 1000 homes.
I said previously that DMS was not with her parents in 1891 and was listed as niece. It turns out she is in the house of her mother's brother, but her mother is with her too. Her mother (Eliza Ann Short nee Taylor) is listed twice on the census, once with her husband and their sons and once with her brother and family and her dau, Dorothy.
In 1911 Dorothy is listed at the Notre Dame Convent School in Clapham.
Reading Mercury 15 July 1916
CLARK - SHORT - On July 11th, at Wesley Church, Reading, by the Rev. T. W. Beck, assisted by the Rev. R. G. Fairbairn, B.A., Benjamin Sidney Clark, youngest son of Mr. Thomas Clark, J.P., and Mrs. Clark, of “The Elms,” Wantage, to Dorothy Mary Short, only daughter of Mr. and Mrs. W. H. Short, of 78, London Road, Reading.
(this is the ony newspaper snippet I've transcribed in full!)
There's a few photos that mention 'at 78'. So that's presumably 78 London Road.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/78+London+Rd,+Reading+RG1+5AU/@51.4522551,-0.9532838,3a,75y,126.84h,95.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sU2XbgnACizWfDxIq_6ov5Q!2e0!7i1 6384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0x48769b36a3cd3d0d:0xf45f277 c063a6f46!8m2!3d51.4522057!4d-0.9532043
A step up from Denmark Road (from 9 rooms to 8 beds), though personally, I think the houses in Denmark Road are very attractive, but in part that's the pretty front garden at 23!
Berks erolls up to 1965
The Clark family lived at:
1919 16 Castle Crescent Reading
1920-25 Burghfield Mill House, Burghfield, Newbury (I've seen Bfield on the photo index)
https://catalogue.millsarchive.org/burghfield-mill-from-across-river
1926-39 Woodley Hill, Eastcourt Ave Newbury
then there's a gap through to 1950:
1950-63 South Lake House, Crockhamwell Road, Wokingham
I’ve now copied and sent everyone’s research to my Forum friend - and he is of course as amazed as me, and has asked me convey his sincere thanks for all your work.
There is a photo on a family tree of both Benjamin and Dorothy but when they were much older.
He has asked if it would be possible to either have a link to this or a copy of it. Can that be done - he’s not on Ancestry!
Thanks again :)
I could probably copy then and email them to you. They are only small - look like they may have been cropped from a group wedding shot.
Oooh, I was just going to send them, but see I have two email addresses for you! Should I use the one with your whole name or the initials one?
maggie_4_7
21-10-21, 15:18
I could probably copy then and email them to you. They are only small - look like they may have been cropped from a group wedding shot.
There is a full size one of them together on another tree that those seem to have been cropped from.
Actually it's the same tree in the big gallery.
Oh is there? Can you tell me the name of the tree and I'll send that too!
maggie_4_7
21-10-21, 15:27
Oh is there? Can you tell me the name of the tree and I'll send that too!
Actually it's the same tree in the big gallery I will PM a link.
Thanks Maggie! I've never come across a tree gallery before :o
All ready to send now. Just need to know which email address to use!
All ready to send now. Just need to know which email address to use!
It doesn’t matter Merry, either will do.
Thanks both - it’ll be interesting to see it/them :)
Ok, sending now.....
Thanks Merry. Received and replied!
Actually it's the same tree in the big gallery I will PM a link.
Another long shot - does that family tree have Trevor Clark on it - whom I knew when in my teens! After the land was sold he said he was going to Australia - I don’t know whether he did or not as we weren’t close friends, just part of a crowd who met in a coffee club at the time.
The chap who has all these negs/photos agrees it would be good for the family to have them if possible. So if maybe Trevor got married - wherever - he could try to make contact.
Depends whether the Trevor was your age or a gen older? One of their sons, b 1924, had Trevor as his third forename. The tree has this man dying in 1989, but there doesn't seem to be a death in the UK, so he may have emigrated.
If that's not the reight Trevor, it's of course very possible that he or a sibling was the father of another Trevor.
I'm a bit confused that you seem to know this Clark family now. Is that just a mad coincidence?!!
Depends whether the Trevor was your age or a gen older? One of their sons, b 1924, had Trevor as his third forename. The tree has this man dying in 1989, but there doesn't seem to be a death in the UK, so he may have emigrated.
If that's not the reight Trevor, it's of course very possible that he or a sibling was the father of another Trevor.
I'm a bit confused that you seem to know this Clark family now. Is that just a mad coincidence?!!
I thought I’d mentioned that I’d known Trevor, but only as ‘one of the crowd’ -sorry. Didn’t know any of his family at all, he was just a chap amongst many who occasionally joined us now and then. Probably, thinking about it, was that he had an MG sports car, and some of us were keen on sports cars!
I would say the 1924 would be too old - I may be wrong, and he wore his age well? I’m taking early 1960s.
maggie_4_7
21-10-21, 22:20
It looks like he lived and died in Australia.
Haha!! MG!
Reading Evening Post 15 April 1968
(a long article - this is the first part. The second, much longer section seems to have been written by Trevor!)
Trevor Clark described how in 58 days, 36 actually driving, he went 12,000 miles around Australia in his MGB GT car without a puncture and with only one mishap, a failed petrol pump.
Mr B A Trevor Clark is a Reading man living at Wargrave and youngest son of the late Mr and Mrs Ben Clark of South Lake House, Woodley.
A professional driver in Britain and on the Continent, his most notable success has been to gain, with Mr Tony Edwards, the first international award in a BMC Mini in the 1959 RAC rally.
Oh Merry, brilliant! So he did go to Australia, to drive round it, not live there :) or maybe not as Maggie infers. Then living in Wargrave which is about 3 or 4 miles down the road.
So, he probably was the one born in 1924, just looked younger…. I’ll see if I can find that article.
maggie_4_7
22-10-21, 08:22
Oh Merry, brilliant! So he did go to Australia, to drive round it, not live there :) or maybe not as Maggie infers. Then living in Wargrave which is about 3 or 4 miles down the road.
So, he probably was the one born in 1924, just looked younger…. I’ll see if I can find that article.
He did die in New South Wales in 1989 he is in the death index for NSW.
https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search/result?4
CLARK BENJAMIN ARTHUR TREVOR 5598/1989
Father: BENJAMIN SIDNEY
Mother: DOROTHY MARY
Area: Unavailable
[QUOTE=maggie_4_7;401107]He did die in New South Wales in 1989 he is in the death index for NSW.
Great Maggie, thank you for your help again.
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