Melville Harcourt Wybert

[KiwiChris]

Melville was b 1909 Hampshire
He is here with his parents in Portsmouth Hamps in 1911
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=2352&h=42423740&tid=&pid=&queryId=f7e428dcb88c8b6f0a8814d09cad64ef&usePUB=true&_phsrc=bbD4514&_phstart=successSource

Alfred Wybert, of private means, b c1872 Dublin and Emily nee Ashford, b c1884 South Africa. I believe it is likely that they married in South Africa c1903.
It is likely that Emily is Emily Enid Salina Farrance Ashford.

Meville Harcourt-Wybert changed his name to Melville Harcourt in 1940 in NZ

When Melville married in NZ in 1931 the newspaper reported his parents were Dr and Mrs Harcourt-Wybert of South Kensington

Can anyone see what happened to Alfred and Emily after 1911?
I have the information from Family search for the parents of Emily, and I have her sisters. I cannot find Alfred before 1911 and have no family information for him.

Possibly Emily married again June q 1941 registered Ilford, as Emmeline SF Harcourt-Wybert, this is the only record that I can find for Emmeline, if it is not Emily, Emmeline appears out of nowhere for the wedding!

[Jill]

He's in the rate books at the 1911 address on Find My Past, the next one they have is 1921, he's not there.

Something from his past though.

The China Mail 21 Jan 1892 has a report from Hong Kong about Alfred H Wybert opening a sporting evening (chiefly boxing) with a display of roller skating:

"In spite of an awkward gradient on the stage and the redundancy of the trap doors, Mr Wybert gave a capital exhibition of fancy skating, for which he was loudly applauded, and much disappointment was felt that a humorous display he was giving, illustrating the trials of the learner of skating, was brought to an abrupt termination by the breakdown of one of his skates"

[KiwiChris]

I have just found a bit more about Melville, 1924 he sailed to Australia age 15 from SA Training farm Hadleigh Essex.
I wonder how he got to the training farm.
Edit - his brother sailed to NZ age 16, occupation farm work

My feeling is that there is something a bit odd about Alfred....

[ElizabethHerts]

This caught my eye as I know I have the name Harcourt in my tree.

However, I have Harcourt Montague Straton Lycett, born in 1877.


Off to have a search for Alfred and Emily.

[Merry]

Here are a couple of entries that on the face of things would appear to be nothing to do with your Alfred, however, the common theme with these two entries is that I cannot find any sign of them anywhere else! So, the death entry is for a person not on the London erolls, census, birth registrations etc etc and the birth registration is for someone who did't die, didn't seem to have obvious siblings, whose parents marriage isn't obvious and who isn't on a census. Clearly there are lots of simple reasons these two may look suspicious, but have nothing to do with Alfred!:

Name: Albert Wybert
Death Age: 49
Birth Date: abt 1873
Registration Date: Apr 1922
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration District: Lambeth
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 272

WYBERT, CHARLES WILLIAM LANCASTER mmn BLUMENTHAL
GRO Reference: 1873 J Quarter in EXETER Volume 05B Page 86

[Merry]

I wonder who this is?

Could be Alfred's mother using a middle name and knocking off a few years, or could be another Mrs H-W:

Incoming passenger list:

Arrived Plymouth Nov 16 1938, S S Ormonde from Brisbane

Mrs S Harcourt-Wybert aged 49 UK address 26 Mountaire Court, Highfield Ave W9 London. Household Duties, country of permanent residence England.

I looked at the Erolls for 26 Mountaire Court:

1937 Harry Charles Summerton and Dorothy Summerton (both b 1903 from 1939 Reg)

1937 and 1939 James Gibson and Isabella Mitchell Gibson (b 1866 and 1873 respectively and still at that address Sept 1939)

[KiwiChris]

I found that passenger list for Mrs S in 1938 when I was having another look this evening and found both Melville and his brother Gerald sailing to Aus and NZ at such young ages.
There don't appear to be any other Harcourt-Wybert anywhere, so she has to fit in somewhere. I also wonder if Emily Enid Selina went by Selina and fudged her age.

It is interesting that Melville's marriage report in 1931 does not indicate that his father is dead.

Looking for Charles William Lancaster Wybert, there is a family tree on Ancestry which has Charles Wybert and Sarah Blumenthal as parents with a son Francis Ernest born Waterford 1879, but the tree does not have a lot of detail.

FE Wybert Actor b c1879 Ireland is on the 1901 in Durham, then he seems to go to America where he also becomes a bit vague about his age, 1918 be is b c1879 but be 1930 he is b c1891, got the same wife and daughter though!
What is it with these people!

[Merry]

Birth cert:

Francis Ernest Wybert

b 18 Aug 1879 Main St, Lismore, Co Waterford, Ireland

Father Charles Wybert Main St, Comedian

Mother Sarah Wybert formerly Blumenthal Main St

Birth reg 5 Sep 1879

[Merry]

Sara Wybert (no H in Sarah) is on the 1911 census - a 60 year old Widow with some family in West Derby Lancs. She says eight children, three living, five dec'd.

Sarah died in 1921 in Croydon district near London.

[Merry]

Charles William Lancaster Wybert, b 1873 seems to have died in 1882 aged 8 in Ireland. The cert doesn't have any middle names, but the occ says "child of Actor", so it must be him.

[kiterunner]

I don't think this has been posted yet?

Safton Percy Wybert born 1 Jun 1874 Enniscorthy, parents Charles Louis Wybert, theatrical manager, and Sarah Wybert, formerly Blumenthal. No fixed residence.

[kiterunner]

There is also a Louis Wybert death 18 May 1885, Galway, age 8, child of an actor.

[kiterunner]

Charles Wybert married Sara Blumenthal 29 Jul 1872 West Ham district (FamilySearch gives the exact date but place just as "Essex".)

[Merry]

Sara says eight children, three living, five dec'd.

So far I've found:

Charles W L Wybert b 1873 Exeter d 1882 Galway

Safton (?) Percy Wybert b 1874 Enniscorthy Ireland

Louis Wybert b 1877 (don't know where) d 1885 aged 8, Galway Ireland.

Francis Ernest Wybert b 1879 Lismore Ireland

Lilian Hannah Wybert b 1886/7 Liverpool

Samuel William Wybert b 1887 Liverpool

John Gerald Wybert b 1891 Liverpool


So one missing! Alfred?

[kiterunner]

Lillian is with Charles and Sara in 1901:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7814/images/LANRG13_3422_3424-0672?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=BPu9111&_phstart=successSource&pId=20374220

[kiterunner]

Possible for Charles in 1871:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7619/images/OXFRG10_1427_1431-0616?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=BPu9111&_phstart=successSource&pId=13093305

[Merry]

Name: Charles Louis Wybert
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 28
Birth Date: abt 1844
Marriage Place: Victoria Docks, St Mark, Essex, England
Marriage Date: 29 Jul 1872
Father: Charles Louis Wybert
Spouse: Sarah Blumenthal
Father: William Blumenthal

[Merry]

Oooh, sorry Kate, I took a long time to post so didn't see yours! :o

[kiterunner]

No worries, Merry.

It looks as though the family might be listed as Werbert on the 1891 census on FMP - see next post for Ancestry link.

[kiterunner]

Ah, here they are:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/6598/images/LANRG12_2918_2920-0146?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=BPu9117&_phstart=successSource&pId=5271617

Which of those sons is Alfred?!

[kiterunner]

Edgar's birth is on Scotland's People - Edgar Lytton Wybert, born 1876 Kirkcaldy and Abbotshall.

[kiterunner]

There is a tree on Ancestry showing Edgar Lytton Wybert emigrating to Canada and marrying there in 1921. So he probably isn't Alfred.

[kiterunner]

I'm beginning to think that Alfred doesn't belong to Charles and Sara!

[kiterunner]

Here is Emily's father's probate info on FamilySearch, confirming at least that she was Emily Selina Furrance Ashford:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BT-Y9W8-P?i=186&cc=2517051&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQGPP-SC6L

[Merry]

I'm beginning to think that Alfred doesn't belong to Charles and Sara!

lol I agree, though I suppose things would be clearer if we had five deaths and three still living in 1911.

[kiterunner]

It would also help if we could find Alfred and Emily's marriage. FamilySearch does have South African marriage indexes, but they don't come up on there.

[Merry]

My money is on Safton turning into Alfred! (if any of them). He's old enough to have left home by 1891.

I agree about the marriage, have you looked on Family Search?

[kiterunner]

Samuel died 1888. John Gerald died 1891.

[kiterunner]

There is a Lilian Wybert death 1982 Surrey S E, dob 17 Jan 1887. I'll see if I can find her on the 1939 Register to make sure she is single.

[kiterunner]

Yes, she is single in 1939 so must be the right Lilian.

[Merry]

Actually if we only need three to be living in 1911 don't we already know that?

Edgar in Canada

Lilian Hannah on the census with her mother

Francis E is on a passenger list in 1912 (though his age is slightly off, name is Mr Franas E Wybert on Ancestry)

[kiterunner]

So Edgar Lytton, Francis Ernest, and Lilian were all still alive in 1911, weren't they?

Edit - snap, Merry!

[Merry]

Of course who knows if any of the children left home under a cloud and their mother decided no contact meant they were dec'd *sigh*

[kiterunner]

FMP has a passenger list entry for A. Wybert born 1866, travelling to (or from?) Victoria, Australia in 1893, in the Australia, Inward, Outward & Coastal Passenger Lists 1826-1972. Might be worth a look? I haven't viewed the image.

[Merry]

Well, it says he was travelling from Adelaide to Melbourne, that he was a gent aged 27. That's it. I think the gent just means he was male as all the passengers are recorded as gent or lady.

[kiterunner]

The China Mail 21 Jan 1892 has a report from Hong Kong about Alfred H Wybert opening a sporting evening (chiefly boxing) with a display of roller skating:

"In spite of an awkward gradient on the stage and the redundancy of the trap doors, Mr Wybert gave a capital exhibition of fancy skating, for which he was loudly applauded, and much disappointment was felt that a humorous display he was giving, illustrating the trials of the learner of skating, was brought to an abrupt termination by the breakdown of one of his skates"

In the Australian Star report of this, 22 Feb 1892, he is referred to as "Mr A. H. Wybert, the Australian crack".

[kiterunner]

In the Victoria, Australia, Rate Books on Ancestry, Alfred Wybert is listed as a laborer living at Little Smith Street, Collingwood, in 1891.

[JBee]

My father in law also age 15 was at the Salvation Army training Farm in 1924 but he was then sent to Canada.

No records remain in the UK but I got information from the Canadian Salvation Army records.

Perhaps approaching the Australian Salvation Army might give you an indication of Melville's circumstances.

[KiwiChris]

Thanks everyone for all the hard work while I was busy sleeping.:D

I would not be surprised if Alfred was somehow linked to Charles and Sarah, the link with Ireland (and I do not find many other Wybert in Ireland), and they both appear to have been performers in some way or another. Alfred had children Lilian and Gerald, names that appear amongst the children of Charles and Sarah, but probably not uncommon names for the time.

I will have a play with all the info posted and see what I can make of it all.

[marquette]

This is probably not related at all, but just one of those funny Family History coincidences.

I was fleshing out a tree for a DNA match, who turned out to be my 4th cousin. Her grandmother on the other side, not related to me -

Alice Wybert Augusta Stonely (or Stoneleigh) b 1878 to Thomas Stonely and Mary Georgina Cannon.

Probably nothing to do with your Wyberts, at all.

Di

[vita]

As usual, I can be no help at all but love his name. I notice there's a theatrical link in the family - very
appropriate!