View Full Version : Help understanding old family tree in Latin please
kiterunner
21-05-21, 18:48
I'm looking at this old family tree mostly in Latin:
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/thoroton-notts/vol1/pp359-361
On the fifth line down is Jollan de Amund[eville] who married Eremetruda neptis C. Anm - I think that's what it says.
Neptis = granddaughter or female descendant, according to my Latin dictionary. What does the C. Anm bit mean, please, anyone?
Because C Anm is in capitals, I imagine that it is an abbreviation of the grandfather's name.
This looks as if it is a pre surname tree. So is Amundeville somewhere local, or might it be on the continent? I've looked in the Nottingham Visitation and no obvious names leap out at me.
The reference appears to come from:
Mon. Angl. Dugdale's Monasticon Anglicanum, ed. Ellis, etc. 8 vols.
It is possible (though unlikely!) that this will point you towards orginal sources used
kiterunner
21-05-21, 21:57
The people on the left hand side have a surname, though - Bussy. The stuff I was looking at online seemed to be using de Amundeville as the other family's surname.
"Jolanus" (Jocelin) and Beatrix on the third line down owned land in Lincs and Notts and seem to have lived in Lincolnshire - apparently Beatrix founded a hospital for the poor in Elsham, Lincs, beore 1166. And there is mention of that in the Monasticon Anglicanum - thanks for pointing me in that direction! I will look through it some more and see if I can find Eremetruda.
kiterunner
21-05-21, 22:40
Aha, a footnote on British History Online says "family of Mondeville, dept. Calvados, arr. and cant. Caen; see Clay, Amundeville, pp 110. So it does look as though the name originated on the continent, yes!
Somewhere else I found that Stoke Mandeville was called after the Amundeville family.
kiterunner
22-05-21, 09:34
Interesting, thanks.
Olde Crone
22-05-21, 11:22
Perhaps C.Anm is meant to be C.Amn. then?
OC
Edit - or perhaps Anm stands for annulment? Lots of online trees claims she was divorced, no supporting evidence of course!
Mary from Italy
22-05-21, 16:11
Further down in the tree, C. stands for county, but I can't think of one beginning with Anm.
maggie_4_7
22-05-21, 17:39
County Antrim
maggie_4_7
22-05-21, 18:28
On this one the text is slightly different
Jolan de Amundevil-Ermetruda neptis C Amerle
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?cc=eebo;c=eebo;idno=a62469.0001.001;node=A6246 9.0001.001:9.13;seq=219;vid=62338;page=root;view=t ext
kiterunner
22-05-21, 18:38
Thanks, but hasn't that been OCR'd from the image on the other link, Maggie?
Apparently there are a couple of papers written about the family of Amundeville by C T Clay which might or might not have more info, but they don't seem to be available online, only if I pay about £10 to buy a copy. Probably not worth it that far back on a line which I know is not my biological line!
kiterunner
22-05-21, 18:45
I have found another copy of the tree on Google books:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=fEYUAVhnJNgC&pg=PA360&lpg=PA360&dq=de+amundevilla+eremetruda&source=bl&ots=LKYqyFDQs9&sig=ACfU3U0WNNlSwMIoYe1UzHPLSg9JbXtv7w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiI6bvv-N3wAhWJ6qQKHSfDBE4Q6AEwAXoECAIQAw#v=onepage&q=de%20amundevilla%20eremetruda&f=false
It could be C. Aum? Though I don't know what that would mean either!
kiterunner
22-05-21, 22:32
Aha! I just found this:
His son Jolland married a niece of his suzerain the Earl of Albemarle
http://1066.co.nz/Mosaic%20DVD/library/Battle%20Roll/Amoudreuile.html
kiterunner
22-05-21, 22:41
Wikipedia says that "The word Albemarle is derived from the Latinised form of the French county of Aumale in Normandy" so I guess that would explain Aum. Also Wikipedia says that William the Conqueror's half-sister Adelaide was Countess of Aumale / Albamarla. So C. Aum seems more likely to refer to her than to the Earl of Albemarle, maybe?
Edit - just got down to the list of Adelaide's children and it shows her son as Stephen, Count of Aumale, so that would fit too.
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