Janaway - using DNA to go around the problem

[Tom Tom]

In the past, I have tried to find more information about the parents of Olivia Melvina Newbury Jannaway, born in 1851 in Kingstown, St Vincent, West Indies, daughter of James and Sophia JANUARY. Her father is a Private in the 1st Batallion 14th Regiment of Foot.

Her Scottish death certificate in 1882 gives her father as James Jannaway (decd) Barracks Sergt and Sophia Ann (Abbott).

I have never been able to find anything else about her parents.

However, I recently made a contact with someone with JANAWAY in their tree, and AncestryDNA says we are 4th-6th cousins.

In their tree, they have Joseph Janaway, married to Mary Spencer in Lyndhurst, Hampshire. They had a number of children in the 1820s (no James though).

Also in Lyndhurst, there was a christening of James Janaway, son of Elizabeth, christened in December 1824.

There is then a marriage of Elizabeth Janaway to Joseph Dible in 1825, in Lyndhurst. It looks like Elizabeth died in 1863.

I cannot see any Janaway/Janaway link to Elizabeth on the 1841/51/61 censuses.

This thread from 2014 shows some of the work done before when trying to find out some more about Olivia.


Thank you for looking.

[Tom Tom]

Elizabeth gives her place of birth as Minesteed on one the census.

The tree on Ancestry gives Joseph's father as Joseph, born 1796. This looks like him in 1851, also born Minesteed:
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1851&indiv=try&h=5926642

[kiterunner]

I'm not sure what you mean about looking for a Janaway link to Elizabeth on the censuses, but if the Elizabeth who married Joseph Dible is the right one, she was born about 1799 in Minstead, Hants. James is not with them in 1841.

There are public trees on Ancestry which have Elizabeth as the daughter of Joseph Janaway and Phoebe Trusler, with Joseph Janaway born 1786 Minstead as her brother, and as the one who married Mary Spencer.

[kiterunner]

Joseph Janaway's family and Joseph Dible's family are on images 2 and 5 respectively of District 5 of Lyndhurst on the 1841 census, so not very far from each other.

[Tom Tom]

Thanks Kate. I meant that James Janaway (born 1824) wasn’t on the census with Elizabeth (when she had become Dibble) to tie them together.

[Phoenix]

It looks as if that James died in June 1825 in Lyndhurst aged under a year.

[kiterunner]

Just thought, Tom - have you checked shared matches with your DNA match?

[Tom Tom]

It looks as if that James died in June 1825 in Lyndhurst aged under a year.

Ah! That rules them out then. Thank you.

Just thought, Tom - have you checked shared matches with your DNA match?

I've looked and there are a few shared matches at 4th-6th cousin level, but none have a linked tree and none of them have logged on for over a year.
The only other shared links are a 2nd cousin who is already accounted for.

There has to be a link somewhere!

[Phoenix]

Do you have any abbott or Janaway matches? It would be worth looking at lower DNA matches, to see if they link to the new connection.

[crawfie]

There are public trees on Ancestry which have Elizabeth as the daughter of Joseph Janaway and Phoebe Trusler, with Joseph Janaway born 1786 Minstead as her brother, and as the one who married Mary Spencer.


Joseph and Phebe were married in 1788. According to the death reg. Joseph jr was 77 when he died in 1863 giving a dob of ca. 1786. On the 1851 his dob is 1791 and on the 1841 1786, so varies quite a bit. As well as Elizabeth, they also had John, 1796; Charles 1788; George 1790; Sarah 1794 and James in 1803. However I cannot find a baptism for Joseph - I have searched for him as child of Joseph and Phebe and also just Phebe. However the discs I have are transcriptions only, so some may be missing.

Could this be your James? It would have made him about 48 when Olivia was born. Do you have any idea as to his dob? If Joseph and Phoebe were the parents of both Joseph and James would that be consistent with the DNA findings?

[Tom Tom]

Do you have any abbott or Janaway matches? It would be worth looking at lower DNA matches, to see if they link to the new connection.



No, no other DNA matches coming down that line. In "shared matches" there are a few 4th-6th cousins, but none have been online for over a year, or have a tree online.
I haven't ever found any DNA matches to any Abbotts either.

[Tom Tom]

Joseph and Phebe were married in 1788. According to the death reg. Joseph jr was 77 when he died in 1863 giving a dob of ca. 1786. On the 1851 his dob is 1791 and on the 1841 1786, so varies quite a bit. As well as Elizabeth, they also had John, 1796; Charles 1788; George 1790; Sarah 1794 and James in 1803. However I cannot find a baptism for Joseph - I have searched for him as child of Joseph and Phebe and also just Phebe. However the discs I have are transcriptions only, so some may be missing.

Could this be your James? It would have made him about 48 when Olivia was born. Do you have any idea as to his dob? If Joseph and Phoebe were the parents of both Joseph and James would that be consistent with the DNA findings?


Thanks Crawfie. My James could have been the son/daughter of one of Joseph's siblings, which I think is the most likely, but I just can't find anything out.

I have no idea how old James was when Olivia was born. I would imagine younger than 48 though as he was a Private at this point, but then recorded as a Barracks Sergt (decd) on her death certificate. I know he had died by 1880, but other than that, nothing!

[Phoenix]

Probably unconnected, but in 1861:

Country Great Britain
Record set British Army, Worldwide Index 1861
First name James
Last name Janaway
Service number 551
Rank Private
Unit or Regiment 1st Btn 15th Foot (Yorkshire-East Riding)
Regiment stationed at Cork & Curragh
Year 1861
National Archives reference WO12 / 3279
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory Regimental & Service Records
Collections from Great Britain, UK None

But he's 15th not 14th.

[maggie_4_7]

Probably unconnected, but in 1861:

Country Great Britain
Record set British Army, Worldwide Index 1861
First name James
Last name Janaway
Service number 551
Rank Private
Unit or Regiment 1st Btn 15th Foot (Yorkshire-East Riding)
Regiment stationed at Cork & Curragh
Year 1861
National Archives reference WO12 / 3279
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory Regimental & Service Records
Collections from Great Britain, UK None

But he's 15th not 14th.

I did look on FMP there is a few records that could be him but not enough information on them. I went down that route because I think the key could be in his service records somewhere. It looks like he was a professional soldier for a fairly long time. Regiments aren't an indication because soldiers did change regiments often.

Tom I am assuming you don't have a marriage for James and Sophia from your post, not that it would tell you much but the area they married might. Forgive me if you have said you have a marriage.

[maggie_4_7]

Probably a total red herring because from my searches on Scotland's People Olivia's husband was Thomas Kerr but I suppose he could be second husband.

But putting in the thread for information might be a clue.

The Olivia here is very young, it's messy because there is no tabulation.

First name(s) Olivia
Last name Jannaway
Birth year 1851
Age 18
Marital status Spinster
Marriage year 1869
Marriage date 26 Jul 1869
Father's first name(s) James Henry
Father's last name Jannaway
Father's occupation Clerk
Spouse's first name(s) Martin
Spouse's last name Meskell
Spouse's birth year 1838
Spouse's age 31
Spouse's occupation Sergeant
Spouse's condition Bachelor
Spouse's father's occupation Shoemaker
First witness James Velly
Second witness Fanny Feard
Marriage place Gillingham, St Mark
County Kent
Country England
Archive Medway Archives
Archive reference P153E/1/9
Register type Marriages
Year range 1866-1876
Page 52
Record set Kent Marriages And Banns
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Collections from England, Great Britain

[Phoenix]

That is useful, Maggie, as the other records on FMP describe James as a Computer - consistent with being a clerk

[maggie_4_7]

That is useful, Maggie, as the other records on FMP describe James as a Computer - consistent with being a clerk

It is Olivia I found another marriage of Olivia Meskell to a Thomas Kerr in 1871 in Calcutta, Bengal, India. Thomas Kerr is on her death cert as husband.

Bride's age 19.Her father's name is transcribed as Henry and surname Shannon! So same person but is the original Olivia in Scotland someone else entirely or has her father's name got mixed up! Need to see original image to check transcription!

Checked image definitely Henry Shannon difficult to read Rank but of the 14th Regiment of Foot.

[Phoenix]

Is the Indian marriage an original document with signatures, or a registered copy? I could argue Jannaway was mistranscribed as Shannon.

Completely failing to find Olivia's father, which makes me wonder if he died in service. I hate army records - they seem much more difficult to follow than naval records.

The way forward might be to find out where the 14th was stationed. Of course James may well have died well before 1861 and Sophia remarried and Olivia travelled round the world with a stepfather.

[maggie_4_7]

Is the Indian marriage an original document with signatures, or a registered copy? I could argue Jannaway was mistranscribed as Shannon.

Completely failing to find Olivia's father, which makes me wonder if he died in service. I hate army records - they seem much more difficult to follow than naval records.

The way forward might be to find out where the 14th was stationed. Of course James may well have died well before 1861 and Sophia remarried and Olivia travelled round the world with a stepfather.

I looked at the image it is definitely Henry Shannon it's the original not sure what you mean one of the other Marriages have an X for Mark but Olivia's entry doesn't but looks to be in the same hand as the entry. It says on the transcription in bold below. So I think what you mean is this has been copied by hand from another document?

First name(s) Olivia
Last name Meskell
Marriage year 1871
Marriage date 20 May 1871
Spouse's first name Thomas
Spouse's last name Kerr
Place Calcutta
Presidency Bengal
Groom's age 31
Bride's age 19
Groom's father's first name Thomas
Groom's father's last name Kerr
Bride's father's first name Henry
Bride's father's last name Shannon
Catalogue description Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Bengal, : 1713-1948
Archive reference N-1-136
Folio number 77
Entry number -
Record set British India Office Marriages
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Collections from Great Britain, UK None

[Phoenix]

Yes!

I have found the same problem with Scottish records. Because the marriages are copies, it offers the opportunity for transcription errors to creep in, like we see on censuses, where the enumerator has made mistakes.

[maggie_4_7]

Yes!

I have found the same problem with Scottish records. Because the marriages are copies, it offers the opportunity for transcription errors to creep in, like we see on censuses, where the enumerator has made mistakes.

Yes that's what I thought you meant.

But for her original marriage, which was in Kent to Martin Meskell she was 18 so it seems she was in Kent probably with parents or family and then was in Calcutta. She may have travelled to Calcutta with Meskell who was a soldier but parents remained in Kent.

If her father was a Staff Seargent is that a clerical position?

[kiterunner]

It might be worth reading through this old thread:

http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/Forum/showthread.php?t=19299&highlight=olivia

I think Tom tried to link to it in his original post on this thread.

[maggie_4_7]

It might be worth reading through this old thread:

http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/Forum/showthread.php?t=19299&highlight=olivia

I think Tom tried to link to it in his original post on this thread.

Ahh so it has all been found before.

[JBee]

When researching the first husband of soldier in the 71st Regiment of Foot - she re-married to another soldier in the 71st - OH's ancestor.

I went to the National Archives and worked through the records and the Muster books for the Regiment and found out when he was last paid - the entry said that he'd died whilst on furlough in Crieff on 17 Jan 1859 - the death wasn't registered either in Crieff, nor Stirling where he was stationed or in Berwick where his wife was.

Other entries for soldiers said they'd deserted so believe that the Army must have had proof he'd died but no trace of a burial either.

Perhaps it might be worth trawling the Regimental records for your man to see when he was no longer with the Regiment and what happened to him whether retired, transferred to another Regiment or died and where.

[Tom Tom]

Thank you everyone. Sorry, I did try to link to the old thread, but obviously didn’t paste it in.

Olivia did marry Martin Meskell first and then Thomas Kerr second. I haven’t seen an original of the Kerr-Olivia marriage, but can see Jannaway becoming Shannon with some poor writing.

I think regimental records might be the next thing. I’ve never done anything with them before, so it will be a steep learning curve!

[Tom Tom]

It is Olivia I found another marriage of Olivia Meskell to a Thomas Kerr in 1871 in Calcutta, Bengal, India. Thomas Kerr is on her death cert as husband.

Bride's age 19.Her father's name is transcribed as Henry and surname Shannon! So same person but is the original Olivia in Scotland someone else entirely or has her father's name got mixed up! Need to see original image to check transcription!

Checked image definitely Henry Shannon difficult to read Rank but of the 14th Regiment of Foot.


Sorry Maggie, missed that you had seen the original! I don’t have FMP, so may have to buy a few credits.
I do remember someone once suggesting that Henry’s Shannon could have been some sort of guardian as she was a young widow. It was also said that she would have had to remarry quickly to stay with the regiment.

[maggie_4_7]

Thank you everyone. Sorry, I did try to link to the old thread, but obviously didn’t paste it in.

Olivia did marry Martin Meskell first and then Thomas Kerr second. I haven’t seen an original of the Kerr-Olivia marriage, but can see Jannaway becoming Shannon with some poor writing.

I think regimental records might be the next thing. I’ve never done anything with them before, so it will be a steep learning curve!

No problem I should have read your post correctly I have trouble concentrating these days.

I have been having a look around and your James Jannaway and his wife are very elusive.

[maggie_4_7]

Sorry Maggie, missed that you had seen the original! I don’t have FMP, so may have to buy a few credits.
I do remember someone once suggesting that Henry’s Shannon could have been some sort of guardian as she was a young widow. It was also said that she would have had to remarry quickly to stay with the regiment.

I wouldn't bother spending money yet because as Phoenix said (have I understood this correctly Phoenix) it is an handwritten copy transcribed from original which could have been transcribed/copied incorrectly.

[Phoenix]

That's my feeling, Maggie - though I don't know whether the originals would have survived.

As starters, the book The Forlorn Hope lists where the various regiments went, so it would provide places to check for marriages and burials.