View Full Version : Richard Andrews born 1916
Hi Can any one offer some guidance.
I am trying to trace a Richard Andrews who is my husbands uncle (he doesn't remember him) I have a date of birth of the 27th July 1916 which I got from the 1939 census where he was living with his parents in Acton.
His parents were Jesse John Andrews and Florence May Pattenden. I cannot find any birth registration at all giving 5 years either side to the birth date on the 1939 census. He died in 1962 (suicide). All the information I have found is from electoral rolls and they always show him living with parents.
Is there any other records I should look at to try and find any information at all about him. I am thinking that maybe he had some medical condition, as he was not called up for army and as far as I can make out never married and left home.
All suggestions gratefully received.
Thank you
ElizabethHerts
30-01-21, 21:14
The only birth I found on the GRO was this:
ANDREWS, WILLIAM JAMES mother's maiden name: PATTENDEN
GRO Reference: 1916 J Quarter in ST. OLAVE (BERMONDSEY) Volume 01D Page 279
Perhaps he was not registered as Richard?
I'll look for other children.
kiterunner
30-01-21, 22:14
The 1939 Register and electoral registers will not say how he was related to the other members of the household, so do you know for sure from another source that Jesse and Florence were his parents and not related to him in some other way, such as uncle and aunt or foster parents? Or maybe they adopted him? Also how do you know he wasn't called up, please?
kiterunner
30-01-21, 22:35
The only birth I found on the GRO was this:
ANDREWS, WILLIAM JAMES mother's maiden name: PATTENDEN
GRO Reference: 1916 J Quarter in ST. OLAVE (BERMONDSEY) Volume 01D Page 279
Perhaps he was not registered as Richard?
I'll look for other children.
I found a tree which says that William's parents were James and Sarah Ann, and that this is him on the 1939 Register, with dob 1 Apr 1916:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/61596/images/tna_r39_0038_0038e_015?pId=5989211
These are James's army papers - the list of children doesn't go up to 1916 but it does show that Sarah Ann's maiden name was Pattenden, and some of the other children match with the 1939 Register entry above.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1219/images/miuk1914d_120349-01073?pId=4462550
So, it doesn't look likely that William J is Richard.
The only birth I found on the GRO was this:
ANDREWS, WILLIAM JAMES mother's maiden name: PATTENDEN
GRO Reference: 1916 J Quarter in ST. OLAVE (BERMONDSEY) Volume 01D Page 279
Perhaps he was not registered as Richard?
I'll look for other children.
Yes I saw this one.
The 1939 Register and electoral registers will not say how he was related to the other members of the household, so do you know for sure from another source that Jesse and Florence were his parents and not related to him in some other way, such as uncle and aunt or foster parents? Or maybe they adopted him? Also how do you know he wasn't called up, please?
That is a good point, I only know from my husband that he said his dad had a brother Richard and the records I found were correct with their names and addresses.
The 1939 Register and electoral registers will not say how he was related to the other members of the household, so do you know for sure from another source that Jesse and Florence were his parents and not related to him in some other way, such as uncle and aunt or foster parents? Or maybe they adopted him? Also how do you know he wasn't called up, please?
My husband seems to recall been told that he was a fire fighter during the war.
There is a newspaper report on Richard's death on Find My Past where Jesse is named as his father. Richard had a greengrocers and was found dead in his locked garage with the van engine running, the report says he had suffered mental health problems.
kiterunner
31-01-21, 09:48
That is a good point, I only know from my husband that he said his dad had a brother Richard and the records I found were correct with their names and addresses.
Then I'm guessing he was either born outside of England and Wales, or adopted.
The 1921 census will be released early next year and might help.
There is a newspaper report on Richard's death on Find My Past where Jesse is named as his father. Richard had a greengrocers and was found dead in his locked garage with the van engine running, the report says he had suffered mental health problems.
Hi, Yes I know about this I have the death certificate and Jesse was my husbands grandad.
On the 1939, Richard is described as a coal carman: exactly the same occupation as Jesse. If anyone were an ARP warden, firefighter or had particular skills, that would be noted on the right hand page, but there is no mention.
Did Jesse go off to war? Were there any bombing raids in the neighbourhood?
I can imagine in WW1 someone might well take in an orphaned baby or a sister's little accident. As this was before formal adoption, it might be very difficult to discover who the true parents were.
Thanks to you all for the help. Will have to wait for the release of next census to see if it throws more light on the subject, if not it will remain a mystery.
On the 1939, Richard is described as a coal carman: exactly the same occupation as Jesse. If anyone were an ARP warden, firefighter or had particular skills, that would be noted on the right hand page, but there is no mention.
Did Jesse go off to war? Were there any bombing raids in the neighbourhood?
I can imagine in WW1 someone might well take in an orphaned baby or a sister's little accident. As this was before formal adoption, it might be very difficult to discover who the true parents were.
Hello, No Jesse did not go to war, they lived in Kensington so guessing there were bombing raids. It seems that they stayed and worked together, I found a railway records book and he was shown working there at 15 so was his brother Frederick so didn't stray far from the family. Every electrol roll I have looked up he is at the same address as Jesse and Florence.
Richard would have been of age for the second world war a relative did say she thought he had absconded from the army and suffered with mental problems but how true this is, is anyone guess.
On the 1939, Richard is described as a coal carman: exactly the same occupation as Jesse. If anyone were an ARP warden, firefighter or had particular skills, that would be noted on the right hand page, but there is no mention.
Did Jesse go off to war? Were there any bombing raids in the neighbourhood?
I can imagine in WW1 someone might well take in an orphaned baby or a sister's little accident. As this was before formal adoption, it might be very difficult to discover who the true parents were.
Surely they Would of had to register the birth? For instance if Florence had a fling and Richard was the result.
If Jesse and Florence had a baby, then yes, they should have registered the birth (though some people did not).
Formal adoption did not come in until the late 1920s, so if Richard appears on the 1921 census as Richard Andrews, there may be no way of establishing whether his parents were in fact Jesse and Florence.
kiterunner
31-01-21, 11:40
Surely they Would of had to register the birth? For instance if Florence had a fling and Richard was the result.
Yes, they would, but if Florence wasn't his birth mother, we don't know what name he would have been registered under.
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