View Full Version : Help needed
After extensive research on other sites (Genes Reunited, Ancestry, GRO) I have been unable to find a birth record of my paternal grandmother. Census Records are nothing if not confusing. As I only know her father's name from her marriage certificate, but otherwise no further details.and her mother's name is also unknown, searching has been like looking for a needle in a haystack. Any tips where else I could look? Any tip would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Blue Crane :confused:
ElizabethHerts
29-10-20, 10:51
Welcome to the site, Blue Crane.
Could you please post any details you have on your grandmother?
We could start with the marriage and also any censuses you have found her on.
Have you tried FreeBMD or FreeREG or even the GRO index website? sometimes they are much more straightforward than the others. Several counties also have localised BMD and parish records (like LancsBMD).
Dont forget that sometimes the truth was not told (for many reasons) on marriage certificates and even birth certificates.
Do you want to let us know the time frame and location as someone here may know of local or specialised sites which might help. The members are also pretty good at teasing out a difficult identity in the census records.
Welcome to Genealogists' Forum Blue Crane :)
As others have said, if you would like us to help you with the search, if you could post anything you have regarding your grandmother (assuming she is deceased, as we don't allow details of living people to be posted here without their permission!), in particular all the details from her marriage certificate and also anything you know about her death (date or approximate date and place etc).
If you only want ideas, rather than for us to take on the challenge, then we would still need to know in which country you are expecting to find her along with approximate dates of her birth, marriage and death as knowing roughly when these events occurred can make a difference as to where you might look for her.
Thank you all so much for offering to help me. I have gathered quite a lot of information since starting my search and a few other people have also tried to be of assistance, but we have all hit a blank wall regarding my grandmother's birth. i will gladly give you the information that I have,
I am looking for birth information of Margaret Ann Veronica Cecilia Cressey (quite a string of names) who was apparently born in Hull in 1876. On her marriage certificate (obtained from the GRO) her name is given as MAVC Cressey otherwise Margaret Ann Veronica Cecilia Foster. Her father's name is give as William Daniel Cressey (deceased) and his profession as Master Ships's Carpenter). She married my grandfather Eberhart Rudolph Hermann Fimpel in 1907. She and Eberhart later had 2 sons and their mother's name on their birth certificates is give as Cressey.
Here I must add that before her marriage she was a record-breaking cyclist and cycled under the name of Maggie Foster.
The census information that I have been able to find is as follows:
1881 Sculcoates Yorks. Margaret A Cressey dob 1876, granddaughter to John Toole from Limerick in Ireland.
1891 Lambeth Brixton Margaret Cressey 15, cousin of Geo Foster dob 1851 from Licolnshire, Geo Foster's wife is given as Mary.
Census 1901 also London, George Foster is suddenly 35 and not 50 as would be expected, Maggie Cressey is now 30 and not 25! No wife is mentioned. George's profession is given as Bicycle Maker (fits Maggie's later sporting activities).
Following her marriage the census records are correct. She died in London in 1945 was buried there.
This is quite a large lump of information the go through, but I have not given up hope that somewhere, someone will hit the jackpot as it were.
Once again many thanks for your offers to help. If you have any other question which you think might help, i would be happy to answer them if I can.
kiterunner
29-10-20, 12:25
To start with, there only seems to be one William Daniel Cressey, born Hull 1853, married Kate Campbell Jan-Mar 1876 Hull Register Office or Registrar Attended, died 1915 Hull age 64.
Couldn't see a birth for a
Margaret Campbell for 1875/6 in Hull - just in case they weren't married before the birth.
There is no trace of them on the 1939 register. I assume this is because Eberhart was a foreign national? Or has anyone located the family?
For what it's worth, Margaret's date of birth on the 1939 Register is 14 Feb 1876.
The succession of names suggest that Margaret may have been born a Roman Catholic. Have you looked for Roman Catholic churches in Hull? Baptism records may still be with the church.
Goodness what a lot of work you have all done. Many thanks.
Kite runner, if the information on Maggie's marriage certificate is correct, her father died before her marriage in 1907.
Phoenix, Eberhart, despite his name, was English, born in London. The problem was that his surname was often spelt incorrectly (Fimple, Fimbel, Fimble). In 1939 he and Maggie must have been living in London, (Herne Hill, Hollingbourne Road I think). The idea that she was a Catholic is a distinct possibility and had occurred to me. Do you think the RC churches in Hull could still have such old registers? If so how could I find them?
Merry, the Dob is spot on.
She might easily have been told William Daniel Cressey was dec'd if he was no longer on the scene.
The chap Kate found seems to have been a carpenter as I've found him as a witness in a court case reported in Leeds Mercury 20 July 1876 (so just after that wedding date Kate posted). The article about the case is very long, but the events took place in Hull and WDC was employed as a carpenter by a Mr Scarr. WDC's evidence is all about the woodwork on this dodgy ship, so his occ seems spot on! The ship was called Derwent and it sailed 31 July 1875 in an unseaworthy state.
For what it's worth, her date of birth on the 1939 Register is 14 Feb 1876.
Sorry I should have posted the rest of this:
58 Hollingbourne Road, Camberwell. His dob is 23 Dec 1875 and they are both recorded as Theatre Managers. No one else in the household.
William Daniel seems to be a thoroughly dodgy character, with a succession of "housekeepers" on censuses. In 1901, his wife is called Elizabeth.
William Daniel seems to be a thoroughly dodgy character, with a succession of "housekeepers" on censuses. In 1901, his wife is called Elizabeth.
Did you see any children with him over the years, Phoenix?
In 1891 he has a housekeeper called Susanna Clinton b 1860 Hull, a daughter Elizabeth Cressey aged 12 and son Peter Cressey aged 5. No wife in the house and I can't find Susanna in 1881 at the moment.
Here's the birth regs for the children:
CRESSEY, ELIZABETH mmn CAMPBELL
GRO Reference: 1880 M Quarter in SOUTH SHIELDS Volume 10A Page 695
CRESSEY, PETER mmn CAMPBELL
GRO Reference: 1886 J Quarter in SCULCOATES Volume 09D Page 214
So, the mother of the children would appear to be Kate Campbell who he married in 1876. In 1901 his wife is Elizabeth aged 36 from Derbyshire.
I can't see WDC in 1911 at the moment.
Oh yes.
Now, I can't find him in 1881, but I note that on 1861 he has a sister Margaret Ann b 1850. Their mother, Emma marries James Dunlop in 1858 and I note that Emma and James Dunlop have a son James:
DUNLOP, JAMES CRESSEY
GRO Reference: 1861 J Quarter in HULL Volume 09D Page 188
This is the link to Margaret senior's marriage in 1877:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBPRS%2FYORKSHIRE%2F13-0743_GB-YOR_PARISH-REGISTERS-E-PE-149-20-VERS-1537-1900%2F00073&parentid=GBPRS%2FYORKSHIRE%2FMAR%2F201837953%2F2
where she describes her father as William Cressey sailor, deceased
Here he is in 1911:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBC%2F1911%2FRG14%2F28677%2F0255&parentid=GBC%2F1911%2FRG14%2F28677%2F0255%2F1
He's a widowed shipwright, aged 56 and has a son William aged 5 with him. And a Mrs (or Miss) Porte housekeeper also a widow with her two sons.
Here is the marriage of William's parents:
Marriages Dec 1851
Batty Emma Hull 22 409
CRESSEY William Hull 22 409
He was legitimate, sister Margaret wasn't.
Oh, in 1911 he is a shipwright and a widower, aged 56 (listed as W D Cressey). He has a housekeeper called Mrs Porte and it looks likely two of her adult children living with them. Also, though there is son William Cressey aged 5 born Hull.
This could be the marriage of WDC to Elizabeth who he is married to on the 1901 census:
Marriages Jun 1900
Cressey William Sculcoates 9d 405
Retalliek Elizabeth Ellen Sculcoates 9d 405
I can't match that surname to a birth reg or previous marriage and then a birth reg, to fit the 'b 1865 in Derbyshire' which is what shows on the census for WDC's wife in 1901, so it may not be the right marriage. That surname seems to originate in the West Country and is usually spelled Retallack or Retalleck.
This is probably the death of your Wililliam's partner though:
Deaths Dec 1902 (>99%)
Cressey Elizabeth 37 Sculcoates 9d 118
So, she can't be the mother of William b 1906ish. I can't see a birth reg for him.
Ooh, here's the son!!
PORTE, WILLIAM mmn SAWDON
GRO Reference: 1906 M Quarter in SCULCOATES Volume 09D Page 186
maggie_4_7
29-10-20, 14:29
Ooh, here's the son!!
PORTE, WILLIAM mmn SAWDON
GRO Reference: 1906 M Quarter in SCULCOATES Volume 09D Page 186
I just found that :) but looked on this thread again just to make sure it hadn't been posted.
kiterunner
29-10-20, 14:33
John Toole (Margaret's grandfather on the 1881 census) has a niece Kate Kennedy with him in 1901, age 30, single, born Grimsby. This could be her in 1871 - Catherine age 4, daughter of John Kennedy, age 43, a widower born Ireland:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7619/images/LINRG10_3411_3414-0166?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx68765&_phstart=successSource&pId=24544456
It seems her mother's maiden name was Stinson.
Census 1901 also London, George Foster is suddenly 35 and not 50 as would be expected, Maggie Cressey is now 30 and not 25! No wife is mentioned. George's profession is given as Bicycle Maker (fits Maggie's later sporting activities).
Not only have their aged changed but Maggie who was previously his cousin is now his sister-in-law!
kiterunner
29-10-20, 14:36
This is the Kennedy family in 1861 and the wife is Margaret, age 36, born Hull:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8767/images/LINRG9_2388_2391-0243?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx68766&_phstart=successSource&pId=21946306
kiterunner
29-10-20, 14:44
Maybe Margaret nee Stinson is a sister of John Toole's wife Ann? I haven't managed to find a marriage for either couple yet.
In March 1883 there's a George Foster, Bicycle and Manufacturing Company, Queen-street, Willenhall mentioned in the Penny Illustrated Paper - London, London, England. I should think this is the same George, but unfortunately I can't find him in 1881.
Maybe Margaret nee Stinson is a sister of John Toole's wife Ann? I haven't managed to find a marriage for either couple yet.
That would make sense.
It's surprising that in 1881 John and Ann Toole don't have any children (other than their granddaughter) living with them.
kiterunner
29-10-20, 14:59
I found a possible Stinson family in Louth, Lincolnshire, in 1851:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8860/images/LINHO107_2111_2111-0546?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx68775&_phstart=successSource&pId=10027435
The father is Patrick, age 54, a licensed hawker born Ireland. Children James 20, Ann 16, Catherine 14, all born Hull, and Elizabeth 12 born Louth. Just trying to find them in 1841 to see if there is a Margaret.
I know that Ann Toole is only 42 on the 1881 census, but it would be quite normal for her to have lost a few years by then, especially if her husband was younger than her.
They are indexed as Stenskus, but there's no Margaret ;(
Unless the child that looks like it says Mary is actually Marg! :D
OOOH!!
Marriages Sep 1848
Askew Elisabeth Sculcoates 22 461
ASKEW Elizabeth Sculcoates 22 461
Hall Samuel Sheffield 22 461
HARDISTY Mary Sculcoates 22 461
Kennedy John Sculcoates 22 461 <<<<<<<<<<<
McAnaulty Mary Sculcoates 22 461
O DONNELL Neil Sculcoates 22 461
O'Donnell Neil Sculcoates 22 461
Smith William Sculcoates 22 461
STEENSON Margaret Sculcoates 22 461 <<<<<<<<<<<
TURNER John Thomas Sculcoates 22 461
kiterunner
29-10-20, 15:21
There is a Peter Campbell / Ann Stinson marriage 1856 Great Grimsby. Did the name Campbell come up earlier? I will have to reread the thread!
kiterunner
29-10-20, 15:23
Oh right, William Daniel Cressey married Kate Campbell in 1876. So the Ann Stinson / Peter Campbell marriage could well be significant!
maggie_4_7
29-10-20, 15:24
They are indexed as Stenskus, but there's no Margaret ;(
Did you notice Catherine Stinson married 27 with family above neice to Barney Price.
Did you notice Catherine Stinson married 27 with family above neice to Barney Price.
I don't understand what you are saying!
In other news, are we saying Ann Stinson and Peter Campbell had a daughter, Catherine/Kate who married WDC and they had a daughter Margaret who then went to live with her bio-grandmother and bio-grandmother's partner, John Toole? <<<< EDIT - Post #46 of this thread, Phoenix finds a marriage for Ann Campbell and John Toole Q3 1872, so they here husband and wife. not partners.
Just for the record, this is long term lodger, William McGrath and family in 1871:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7619/images/ERYRG10_4791_4793-0309?backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=52d69629a7279b5dd2ff38ecefae695c&pId=10075500
He actually did get married, to Susannah Sands. But he's not living next door to John Toole.
maggie_4_7
29-10-20, 15:35
I don't understand what you are saying!
In other news, are we saying Ann Stinson and Peter Campbell had a daughter, Catherine/Kate who married WDC and they had a daughter Margaret who then went to live with her bio-grandmother and bio-grandmother's partner, John Toole?
On that 1851 census link that Kiterunner posted
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageview...e&pId=10027435
kiterunner
29-10-20, 15:36
In other news, are we saying Ann Stinson and Peter Campbell had a daughter, Catherine/Kate who married WDC and they had a daughter Margaret who then went to live with her bio-grandmother and bio-grandmother's partner, John Toole?
Yes, I think so. Catharine Campbell birth registered Oct-Dec 1856 Caistor district (which included Grimsby at the time), MMN Steinson. Vol 7A p 555.
\Louth Linc
Patrick Stenchon 62
Ann Campbell 26
She's a lodger! Also, she's a widow, but there's no child with her in 1861
kiterunner
29-10-20, 15:39
Except maybe Margaret was born before her mother's marriage to William? We still need to find her birth reg!
Yes, I think so. Catharine Campbell birth registered Oct-Dec 1856 Caistor district (which included Grimsby at the time), MMN Steinson. Vol 7A p 555.
Excellent!
So the only thing missing is Margaret's birth reg in 1876 Q1 ish?
EDIT snap!
And we need to find Ann in 1871 and Catherine in 1861 and 1871.
I need to feed the cat!
kiterunner
29-10-20, 15:48
Catharine "Camble", nurse child age 4 in Louth on the 1861 census:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8767/images/LINRG9_2379_2383-0604?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx68798&_phstart=successSource&pId=14056440
Marriages Sep 1872 (>99%)
CAMPBELL Ann Sculcoates 9d 291 Scan available - click to view
Cook Anne Elizabeth Sculcoates 9d 291 Scan available - click to view
Stephenson Edwin Sculcoates 9d 291 Scan available - click to view
TOUL John Sculcoates 9d 291 Scan available - click to view
VICKERMAN George Francis Sculcoates 9d 291
Catherine is in a convent school at 4 College St Nottingham in 1871.
Oooh, Phoenix, that's good!
kiterunner
29-10-20, 15:59
Ann in 1871?
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7619/images/LINRG10_3423_3426-0068?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx68800&_phstart=successSource&pId=4794403
Yep, I saw that, but forgot to post because of the cat driving me crackers. She's been fed now!
Do we have most things except the 1876 birth reg?
Never did find my grandmother's birth registration in 1876 in North Shields - she was RC but I did find the baptism.
Might we try the baptisms for RC church in Hull -
I have to go and make some dinner for me and OH now.
Seems there were 3 RC churches around the right time in Hull
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ERY/Hull/HullHistoryBaines/HullHistory09
I can see that Catherine Cressey died in 1894, but did we find her in 1881 or 1891?
kiterunner
29-10-20, 16:38
I can see that Catherine Cressey died in 1894, but did we find her in 1881 or 1891?
I don't think anyone ever found William, Catherine, or Elizabeth (their other daughter) in 1881. And no, I don't think we found Catherine in 1891.
What about this one? I can't find it on the GRO site of FMP or FreeBMD or Ancestry!
Yorkshire BMD
1876
CAMPBELL Margaret M 1876 sub-district Cottingham Hull COT/9/282
mmn is not included, so it could easily belong to someone else! Also I don't think we really want middle initial M, did we?
Cottingham is a sub-district of Sculcoates, not of Hull District. Hull is just where the register is stored.
kiterunner
29-10-20, 16:47
Might we try the baptisms for RC church in Hull -
I don't think they're online, but apparently they are held at the East Riding of Yorkshire Archives.
kiterunner
29-10-20, 16:49
What about this one? I can't find it on the GRO site of FMP or FreeBMD or Ancestry!
Yorkshire BMD
1876
CAMPBELL Margaret M 1876 sub-district Cottingham Hull COT/9/282
mmn is not included, so it could easily belong to someone else! Also I don't think we really want middle initial M, did we?
Cottingham is a sub-district of Sculcoates, not of Hull District. Hull is just where the register is stored.
I think that one is the Margaret Mercer Campbell whose birth was registered Jan-Mar 1877 (MMN Brown) - some of the local BMD sites index the births under year of birth rather than year of registration.
Bother, I didn't know that about the different year thing!
In 1891 there is a Kate Cressey from Grimsby aged 35, but she is with a Joseph Cressey from Hull aged 33. Joseph doesn't seem to exist anywhere else at the moment. Obviously we have WDC already elsewhere. In the household is also son William aged 14, b Hull. No birth reg? I can't find him elsewhere either.
I'm only dropping in so haven't really looked thoroughly.....
I do think that Kate is probably the right person.... but...
Or maybe not?
CRIPSEY, WILLIAM GEORGE mmn PERRON
GRO Reference: 1877 M Quarter in HULL Volume 09D Page 277
I haven't looked to see if there's anyone else who could belong to this registration.
Or maybe not?
CRIPSEY, WILLIAM GEORGE mmn PERRON
GRO Reference: 1877 M Quarter in HULL Volume 09D Page 277
I haven't looked to see if there's anyone else who could belong to this registration.
OK, so William G Cripsey is a different person and it's not a mistranscription - that's his name.
I've seen him on the census and this is his parents marriage reg (she's from Brixham, Devon):
Marriages Sep 1870
CRIPSEY William George Totnes 5b 315
PERRING Sarah Elizabeth Totnes 5b 315
Mary from Italy
29-10-20, 20:05
FMP has RC baptisms for Hull St Mary's and St Patrick's, and various other parishes in the area, but I haven't found anything promising yet,
I note that there is an Ancestry tree for Elizabeth Cressey - though they don't seem to know Margaret, but have got Peter.
Also, a Kate Cressey - no age given - got a short prison sentence in 1883 for receiving stolen goods: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1590/images/31251_A006196-00262?ssrc=&backlabel=Return&pId=675219
"STEALING A .DRESS.-Kate Cressey, alias Campbell (26), and Emma Smith, alias Harriet Williams (24), were charged with stealing a dress, the property of Hannah Tindale, from 23, Caroline-street. Cressey was sentenced- to one month, and Smith
13 July 1883 - Hull Packet - Hull, Yorkshire, England "
So Kate had clearly parted company with William Cressey by 1883
I have tried really hard to find them in 1881 to no avail. Maybe there was stuff happening that led to them being missed?
I did wonder whether William, as a ship's carpenter, may have been at sea, or even in Scotland in 1881.
We seem to have reached the stage where a few certificates would be really helpful.
Yes, the marriage cert from Q1 1876 would be a good start. I want to know whether it's before or after Feb 14th. I'll put £1 on it being in March. :D
Actually, I suppose there's some chance Margaret didn't know her birthday, so 14th Feb would be a good date to choose if you were not sure. I may take my bet back!!
maggie_4_7
30-10-20, 11:12
I don't think anyone ever found William, Catherine, or Elizabeth (their other daughter) in 1881. And no, I don't think we found Catherine in 1891.
I have got confused I can't take it in because I haven't followed this thread but this Catherine is it the Kate Cressey nee Campbell that Pheonix is referring to here?
"STEALING A .DRESS.-Kate Cressey, alias Campbell (26), and Emma Smith, alias Harriet Williams (24), were charged with stealing a dress, the property of Hannah Tindale, from 23, Caroline-street. Cressey was sentenced- to one month, and Smith
13 July 1883 - Hull Packet - Hull, Yorkshire, England "
So Kate had clearly parted company with William Cressey by 1883
Yes.
Margaret Cressey, daughter of Kate is born somewhere around 14 Feb 1876, according to the 1939 census.
Kate Campbell marries William Daniel Cressey in the March quarter of 1876.
Elizabeth Cressey mmn Campbell is born March quarter 1880 South Shields.
Margaret is the only one we can find in 1881, living with her maternal granny.
Kate is calling herself Cressey and Campbell in 1883.
Peter Cressey is born in 1886 and since William has both Elizabeth and Peter living with him in 1891 as daughter and son, one must assume that they are his. William calls himself married, so knows that Kate is still around. She dies in 1894 (we think!)
I am still struggling with the Kate Cressey who is apparently married to Joseph according to the 1891 census, below. The fact that she says b Grimsby makes me feel that she is the right Kate, but who is Joseph who doesn't appear anywhere else? And no reg for the son, William.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/6598/images/ERYRG12_3933_3935-0434?backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=202e7bd8c331745e9fc27464f4ca6b5f&pId=6476
I am still struggling with the Kate Cressey who is apparently married to Joseph according to the 1891 census, below. The fact that she says b Grimsby makes me feel that she is the right Kate, but who is Joseph who doesn't appear anywhere else? And no reg for the son, William.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/6598/images/ERYRG12_3933_3935-0434?backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=202e7bd8c331745e9fc27464f4ca6b5f&pId=6476
I could wish William was about ten years younger, as he sits between Margaret and Elizabeth. But...
My theory would be that Kate was known in the area and Joseph wasn't, so he took her surname on census night. For all we know, William is his son so has a different surname. Having found this situation happening in my own family, I no longer think it far fetched. Especially if the enumerator confronts Kate, she blurts out her surname and then describes Joseph as her husband.
Yes that's probably it. My father-in-law changed his surname to that of my mother-in-law's previous husband so that when they married she could keep the same surname. Obviously I have known this for decades, but when I write it down it sounds really strange!
kiterunner
30-10-20, 11:58
I have one in my tree where the husband took the wife's surname for a while, I'm guessing because he didn't want someone to find him.
I am working my way through Josephs who are bricklayers!
I note that in 1881 Joseph Guthrie was living next door but one to the Tooles. He joined the army and I'm not sure whether he was in the army or just the reserves in 1891. He appears to been able to vote* in respect of property in Stewarts Yard High Street, which is only three census pages on from Joseph "Cressey".
*Though that may have been his father!
Ooh, I saw Joseph Guthrie, but I don't remember why I picked him out now. It wasn't your reason though.
maggie_4_7
30-10-20, 13:20
I am still struggling with the Kate Cressey who is apparently married to Joseph according to the 1891 census, below. The fact that she says b Grimsby makes me feel that she is the right Kate, but who is Joseph who doesn't appear anywhere else? And no reg for the son, William.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/6598/images/ERYRG12_3933_3935-0434?backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=202e7bd8c331745e9fc27464f4ca6b5f&pId=6476
Thats why I asked about Catherine/Kate I saw that census.
I have no idea whwew this takes us, but Leo Morphew, nephew aged 14 in 1891 in Brixton with George and Mary Foster is the son of George Morphew and Margaret Grady:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBC%2F1881%2F4316034%2F00209&parentid=GBC%2F1881%2F0014820040
In 1881 the family are at 14 Wellington St Grimsby
George Morphew Head Married Male 30 1851 Engine Smith (Mk) Mereworth, Kent, England
Margaret Morphew Wife Married Female 30 1851 - Louth, Lincolnshire, England
John E Morphew Son Single Male 4 1877 - Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England
Leo Morphew Son Single Male 3 1878 - Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England
Augusta Morphew Daughter Single Female 0 1881 - Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England
Mary Gray Mother In Law Married Female 58 1823 Travellor (Hawk) Hull, Yorkshire, England
ElizabethHerts
30-10-20, 17:26
This thread has run away with me as I have been busy with other things.
Do you think it would be a good idea to summarise your findings for Blue Crane because it might take a long time trying to analyse them?
Post 71 is roughly what we know. None of us have found Margaret's birth and all we can say with certainty is that Kate/Catherine was her mother and Kate was the daughter of Ann Campbell nee Stinson who ultimately married John Toole.
We have yet to work out precisely the relationship (if any) between George Foster and Margaret Cressey.
Not sure that this really gets us any further, but:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBPRS%2FYORKSHIRE%2F13-0743_GB-YOR_PARISH-REGISTERS-E-PE-156-18-VERS-1537-1900%2F00228&parentid=GBPRS%2FYORKSHIRE%2FMAR%2F201846037%2F2
Marriage year 1882
Marriage date 24 Sep 1882
Marriage place Hull, St Mark
Spouse's first name(s) George William
Spouse's last name Forster
Spouse's age 27
Spouse's residence Hodgson Street
Father's first name(s) Charles
Father's last name Campbell
Spouse's father's first name(s) Samuel
Spouse's father's last name Forster
County Yorkshire (East Riding)
Country England
Archive East Riding Archives & Local Studies Service
Archive reference PE 156/18
Page 226
Record set Yorkshire Marriages
That couple are this couple in 1901:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7814/images/YRKRG13_4483_4484-0491?backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=ef99f9810feef06556bc8bdde935d7ca&pId=28681975
These children all have mmn Campbell.
I don't think we said anything about what happened to Kate Campbell's father:
CAMPBELL, PETER 32
GRO Reference: 1857 S Quarter in CASTOR Volume 07A Page 360
Name: Peter Campbell
Register Type: Burial
Death Date: 18 Jul 1857
Burial or Cremation Date: 19 Jul 1857
Burial or Cremation Place: Lincolnshire, England (Deceased online)
Stamford Mercury 31 July 1857- At Grimsby, on the 18th inst., Mr. Peter Cambell, aged 30.
In which case I offer this George:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8767/images/LINRG9_2358_2363-0290?ssrc=&backlabel=Return&pId=21850501
Son of Frederick Foster and Ann nee Dalby
b Louth 1846 & a wireworker in 1861
Annoyingly not with parents in 1851.
I think this is him in prison in Lincoln in 1881, a blacksmith striker, born Louth:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7572/images/LINRG11_3238_3241-1172?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Leb24138&_phstart=successSource&pId=12686481
Which might mean that this is George in 1871:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7619/images/LINRG10_3372_3374-0558?backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=584ddc382abdb81820c6e9a38937a56d&pId=24505591
A labourer, aged 24 in Hungate, born Lincoln (his parents had moved from Louth, but his little brother Fred was born in Lincoln)
This is Peter Campbell and Ann Stinson's marriage:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBPRS%2FLINCS%2FGRIMSBY_ST_JAMES_PAR_1_1 5%2F0801&parentid=GBPRS%2FLINCS%2FMAR%2F00188771%2F1
The witnesses are John Stinson and Margaret Kennedy.
I should think this is George's death, even though there's no middle name:
Deaths Mar 1905
Foster George 55 Lambeth 1d 224
In which case I offer this George:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8767/images/LINRG9_2358_2363-0290?ssrc=&backlabel=Return&pId=21850501
Son of Frederick Foster and Ann nee Dalby
b Louth 1846 & a wireworker in 1861
Annoyingly not with parents in 1851.
I think this is him in prison in Lincoln in 1881, a blacksmith striker, born Louth:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7572/images/LINRG11_3238_3241-1172?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Leb24138&_phstart=successSource&pId=12686481
Which might mean that this is George in 1871:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7619/images/LINRG10_3372_3374-0558?backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=584ddc382abdb81820c6e9a38937a56d&pId=24505591
A labourer, aged 24 in Hungate, born Lincoln (his parents had moved from Louth, but his little brother Fred was born in Lincoln)
I'm definitely not saying the man above is the wrong one (or the right one!!), just that, regarding the prisoner who is listed as single, aged 32, b Louth in 1881, in 1891 there's a George Foster, single, aged 46, b Louth in the union workhouse in Lincoln. I don't know if they are the same person, but certainly the bicycle manufacturer is in London in 1891, so the W/H chap must be someone else. The trouble is, there seems to be several who dip in and out of saying 'Louth' for place of birth and none of them have a familiar mmn!
If only George and Mary had produced a child living with them for a census.....
Haha!! I missed post 79 about Leo Morphew! (mmn Grady)
Marriages Dec 1886
FOSTER George Lambeth 1d 890
GRADY Mary Lambeth 1d 890
Frustratingly, I'm not seeing any PR for this unless there's one on FMP (I'd have to get out of bed to look), but I don't see why there would be. Obviously, knowing George's father's name and occ would be good!
Here are the sisters, Margaret and Mary Grady, later to become Margaret Morphew and Mary Foster, in 1851:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8860/images/LINHO107_2111_2111-0547?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.118360010.234274471.1602507648-1283196436.1602507648&_gac=1.217310754.1604134688.EAIaIQobChMIqKuJsLve7A IVljzTCh3uJAU2EAEYASAAEgIPbPD_BwE&pId=10027451
Loving the mmn!!
GRADY, MARY mmn STENTION
GRO Reference: 1846 M Quarter in KINGSTON UPON HULL Volume 22 Page 448
GRADY, MARGARET mmn STENTION
GRO Reference: 1851 J Quarter in LOUTH UNION Volume 14 Page 539
Marriages Sep 1843
BORKWOOD Robert Mowson Louth 14 648
Collis Elizabeth Catherine Louth 14 648
GRADY John Louth 14 648 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
PEACOCK William Louth 14 648
RENISON Mary Louth 14 648
STENTION Mary Louth 14 648 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
TUXWORTH Mary Ann Louth 14 648
WHITE Samuel Louth 14 648
So, here in 1841 (bottom left) we have the Stinson family (or however you would care to spell it!)
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8978/images/LINHO107_638_639-0583?ssrc=&backlabel=Return&pId=6793007
we have Ann, who becomes Mrs Campbell and then Mrs Toole and is the mother of Kate Campbell/Creesey and grandmother of Margaret Creesey.
and we have Mary who becomes Mrs Grady, mother of Mary Grady/Foster
The family very likely had a daughter Margaret who became Mrs Kennedy, but as she was aged about 36 in 1861 she would probably have been about 16 in 1841 and living/staying apart from her parents.
Amazing!
This is like a conjuror's trick: look at George and ignore Mary.
I was lying in bed this morning, thinking that Leo (thank goodness he has unusual names!) must be the key.
Goodness, what aan amazing amount of information you have all dug up in your efforts to help me. There is so much that I am afraid that somehwe along the line I have lost the thread, but I am sure you will unravel it for me. Yesterday evening I found the connection Morphew, Grady, Foster, but got no further. It is perhaps an intersting point that in a number of national newspapers in 1903 (amongst others Shetland News 05.09.1903 and Shroud News and Gloucestershire Advertiser 04.09.1903) there are reports on one of Maggie's cycling feats reporting that Maggie was paced by her BROTHER G. Foster.
Merry I am afraid you have "lost your pound" Maggie and Eberhart were married on 17.08.1907.
No, not that marriage - I meant the one between WDC and Kate Campbell - would it be before or after the birth of Margaret, supposedly on Valentine's day 1876. Though if she didn't know her dob exactly, Valentine's day would be a good date to choose!
Very interesting that George aliased as Maggie's brother!
Amazing!
This is like a conjuror's trick: look at George and ignore Mary.
I was lying in bed this morning, thinking that Leo (thank goodness he has unusual names!) must be the key.
Yes, but when I looked at him in 1891 his first name was Geo not Leo!! Then I couldn't find him, obviously, and then I gave up! And why didn't you tell me his first name was Ignatius?!:rolleyes::eek::d
Sorry Merry, I obviously got things wrong with the wedding! However, I must just add one thing. Was Valentines Day a special date all those years ago? Elsewhere during the course of my researches I was told that prior to 1911 "sister-in-law" was also used for what we would call "step sister". Does that help or just confuse the issue even further.?
I agree about sister-in-law etc - All the "in-law" relationships covered more possibilities than today. Conversly, sister could also mean sister-in-law etc etc. And of course people also sometimes deliberately lied!
As for Valentine's day - we only know she had chosen this date by 1939 (or, of course, it might be the correct date!).
I know my rather flirtatious grandmother (b 1892) knew all about Valentine's day when she was young! :rolleyes: I just googled Valentine's Day Cards history:
The first Valentine’s cards
The first Valentine’s cards were sent in the 18th century. Initially these were handmade efforts, as pre-made cards were not yet available. Lovers would decorate paper with romantic symbols including flowers and love knots, often including puzzles and lines of poetry. Those who were less inspired could buy volumes that offered guidance on selecting the appropriate words and images to woo their lover. These cards were then slipped secretly under a door, or tied to a door-knocker.
It was in Georgian Britain that pre-printed cards first began to appear, though these were not yet as popular as they were eventually to become. Perhaps the oldest surviving example dates from 1797: this card, held at York Castle Museum, was sent by one Catherine Mossday to a Mr Brown of London. It is decorated with flowers and images of Cupid, with a verse printed around the border.
Thanks Merry, That is really interesting, I always thought the Americans were responsible for the Valentines' Day cards. In the course of the postings the 1939 Registry has cropped up. Can you enlighten me what it is and where I can find it?
The 1939 Register is available through FMP and Ancestry. This is Ancestry's version:
Margaret Finepel!!
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/61596/images/tna_r39_0073_0073a_004?backlabel=ReturnSearchResul ts&queryId=400aac1ff245d0e4f8115ef61094679b&pId=6178930
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