View Full Version : Shock Following Pestcohot Of Head
Stumped!
Anyone???
Jacob Debus in the New York, New York, Index to Death Certificates, 1862-1948 (https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=61778&h=1428215&tid=114432534&pid=362178138504&queryId=50edb0d745df38b2b45112805a5ea2ba&usePUB=true&_phsrc=ELd9187&_phstart=successSource)
Name: Jacob Debus
Gender: Male
Race: White
Marital status: Widowed
Age: 63
Birth Date: abt 1842
Birth Place: Germany
Years in US: 13 Years
Death Date: 16 Jun 1905
Death Street Address: 386 So 3rd Str
Death Place: New York City, Brooklyn, New York, USA
Cause of Death: Shock Following Pestcohot Of Head
Burial Date: 19 Jun 1905
Burial Place: Linden Hill
Occupation: Engineer
Father's Birth Place: Germany
Mother's Birth Place: Germany
Certificate Number: 11317
ElizabethHerts
04-09-20, 21:20
Janet, I can't access the page in the link as my subscription doesn't allow it.
Does the image actually say that or is it a mistranscription?
I'm looking at Ancestry's transcription, Elizabeth. I've highlighted the line in bold now in my original post. I suspect a mistranscription, as I'm sure do you! Thanks for looking.
Have found original scans on Ancestry of the admin dated 21 June 1905, wherein it stated that "said deceased died a natural death"; so I remain clueless. Thanks again, Elizabeth.
kiterunner
04-09-20, 22:04
I have no idea what the original could have said, but I have another question. What do they mean by "This collection consists of robust indexes to deaths"?
New York Times 18 June 1905
Jacob Debus,, an engineer, sixfy-three vears old, of 38« South Third; Street, Williamsburg, was found dead
That's the excerpt, but I can't yet find the rest on the page image!! Still looking....
Ah got it now. You will have to wait whilst my two fingered typing does it's stuff!
New York Times 18 June 1905
Jacob Debus, an engineer, sixty-three years old, of 386 South Third Street, Williamsburg, was found dead early yesterday morning at his home. He had shot himself in the head with a revolver.
Debus was a widower, and a married son and daughter-in-law kept house for him. He always sat in an old armchair that belonged to his wife.
On Friday night the son and daughter-in-law went out, leaving Debus alone. He was cheerful when they went away. On their return at midnight they found him dead.
Might the transcription be of 'pistol shot'?
kiterunner
04-09-20, 22:57
Not a natural death at all!
Oh dear, the poor man. He made the pages of the Times in the end.
Merry, a fistful of gold stars for that. Thank you. Now why didn't I think of looking in the papers? Pistol shot certainly sounds like the logical interpretation.
Kite, I can't quite imagine what a robust index to deaths is supposed to mean. On the other hand, if they had said it was an index to robust deaths I would have to agree.
Not what I expected to find when I couldn't sleep at 4 in the morning, but always satisfying when the mystery is solved.
Thank you all very much. Maybe now I can go back to sleep, except my new problem is figuring out how to tell this to my stepson whose great-greatgrandfather this was.
Oh dear, I'm sure you will find a way. I wonder how long he had been a widower?
Elizabeth Debus [nee Enders/Anders] had died about two and a half years earlier, Merry.
Death Date: 12 Nov 1902
Death Street Address: 386 So 3rd St
Death Place: New York City, Brooklyn, New York, USA
Cause of Death: Exhaustion, Abcess of Liver
I'm going crazy now. I know they were in Liverpool on the 1871. I saw the image and put in a correction because the birthplace of the parents and two of the children, as I read it, is Frankfurt am Main. That must have been on FindMyPast. They had transcribed the birthplace for all as Lancashire, England. FamilySearch has it down as Frankford.
Jacob, Elizabeth, John, Henry, Jacob, Philip Debus 1871 Liverpool (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBXG-34M)
I can't make the image turn up for me anywhere though.
They should still be there in 1881 and 1891 but I have to go sit down now to a delicious dinner I did not make.
According to the 1905 article, Jacob should have arrived in the U.S. in 1892. Can't find that either. Elizabeth came over in 1893 with George, Charles and Albert. The ages are a bit out but the birth order is correct. That's on Ancestry.
Elizth, George, Charles, Albert Debus 15 Nov 1893 Liverpool to New York (https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/2997/images/40610_B000134-00141?pId=39228160)
Olde Crone
05-09-20, 21:49
Charles junior was baptised in 1880 in Everton, Liverpool. I don't see mention of any of the others.
OC
kiterunner
05-09-20, 22:00
They're transcribed as "Olebus" on the 1871 on Ancestry, Janet:
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=dNx62730&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&dbid=7619&gsfn=phil*&gsfn_x=1&gsln_x=1&cp=0&_F5B0A835=20&_F5B0A835_x=1&_FFEC2492=3758&_FFEC2492_x=1&new=1&rank=1&uidh=vm5&redir=false&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=3&h=15862767&recoff=&ml_rpos=4&queryId=c93a6e33512c1dd7ad26705de58c2129
I have put in a correction. Though I'm not sure that it doesn't say Olebus on the image. I wouldn't like to have been the person who had to transcribe it!
I thought I would get to it easily using the reference numbers from FamilySearch, but although they had the piece number and Enumeration District number, I don't know what that "24" means. Not page or folio number.
Good heavens. I thought the same the first time I saw it, about having to transcribe that. Thank you, Kite. I'll look again later—now that you've found them for me!
Thanks, OC. I thought I had seen more children registered or baptized there but again I'll have to give it another look later.
FamilySearch has been pointing me back into Germany, where perhaps I will find the earlier born children. Also later for that!
Found my list of suspects, OC:
Margaret Daybus 1876
https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/2196/images/engl56170_283-pet-2-74_m_00134?pId=2707076
George Daybus 1878
https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/2196/images/engl56170_283-pet-2-76_m_00103?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true&pId=2718926
Charles Debus 1880
https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/2196/images/engl56170_283-pet-2-79_m_00103?pId=2709854
Albert Debus 1882
https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/2196/images/engl56170_283-pet-2-81_m_00116?pId=2690759
??? 1884
Florence Dabas 1886
https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/2196/images/engl56170_283-gev-2-3_m_00049?pId=3039030
Don't know what happened to 1884.
EDIT: I've added links to Ancestry in case anyone wants to argue me out of any of these.
Olde Crone
06-09-20, 10:57
Ah, I wasn't using soundex on Lanopc and lancsbmd only gave me Davies as soundex. Going to have another look. (To satisfy myself, lol).
OC
I don't understand what we need to do with the suspects list in post 17? Also the bit about 1884?
The family should be in Liverpool in 1881 and 1891. I can't see them on either.
1881 (Davies):
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7572/images/LANRG11_3655_3659-0995?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=d4003d5a64efa0f97fc64c2ba4ed215e&usePUB=true&_phsrc=WEQ8482&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.51421545.1343735914.1599158015-862782618.1572732679&pId=9001049
Ooh, thanks, Merry. That's them.
I don't understand what we need to do with the suspects list in post 17? Also the bit about 1884?
I just wasn't sure I wasn't kidding myself about all the Daybus/Debus/Dabas children actually belonging to them, and if I was wrong I wanted someone to burst my bubble.
The 1884 question was just that there seemed to be a hole where a child should be.
I was going to give you the mmn for the various children, but I can't find any registrations!
I should think all those baptised children are the same family as the name combinations are not common. I'm wondering if they are all under a different surame for birth reg?
DAVIES, PHILIP mmn ANDERS
GRO Reference: 1871 M Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 30
DAVIES, MARGARET mmn ANDERS
GRO Reference: 1876 D Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 50
DAVIES, GEORGE mmn ANDERS
GRO Reference: 1878 J Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 325
DAVIES, CHARLES mmn ENDES
GRO Reference: 1880 S Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 366
DAVIES, ALBERT mmn ANDERS
GRO Reference: 1882 J Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 364
DAVIES, FLORENCE mmn ENDERS
GRO Reference: 1886 S Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 351
There could be more, but the GRO site is so tricky to search when the main surname is a common one, the forenames are unknown and the mmn has variable spellings.
Neither can I. :(
Ohhh wow, I walked out to get the Sunday paper in the box at the road and by the time I get back you've found them.
Thanks! :):):)
DABES, JACOB mmn ANDES
GRO Reference: 1869 M Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 3
Oooh, well done! I woudn't have picked up that one, so you might want to try more spellings for the gap years!
Olde Crone
06-09-20, 17:30
Well I could kick myself. If you write "Dabus" in flowing copperplate it looks very much like the more common "Davies" of course!
OC
lol OC - Makes me wonder if someone helpfully wrote their surname down for them, in nice copperplate, so that when they visited the register office it wouldn't be difficult to get their name across if their spoken English perhaps wasn't great? They dutifully kept the piece of paper somewhere safe to be used for each registration. Pity it said Davies on it!!
OC, please stop kicking yourself or I'll have to do worse to myself. Thanks for looking! I've been having an easier time now that I've reverted to D*s!
Merry, I think that's how I found Jacob a few minutes ago. Thanks so much. I think I've got civil registrations for all the known children now.*
Well, except John who was born in Germany. And that's another journey. Right now I have to go process the tomato harvest.
=============
*I'll keep looking but maybe by 1884 Elizabeth's system was getting a bit cranky and irregular? I think 1886 might be reasonably the end of the line as she was born in 1840.
Olde Crone
06-09-20, 18:02
The vicar got it right though, for Florence at least, so I suspect it is transcription errors. Be interesting to find out!
I know all about that bit of paper, one of my ancestors carefully carried it round and used itfor every family registration event in Scotland for about 80 years. Pity the mother 's surname does not exist anywhere on earth.
OC
lol OC - Makes me wonder if someone helpfully wrote their surname down for them, in nice copperplate, so that when they visited the register office it wouldn't be difficult to get their name across if their spoken English perhaps wasn't great? They dutifully kept the piece of paper somewhere safe to be used for each registration. Pity it said Davies on it!!
The vicar got it right though, for Florence at least, so I suspect it is transcription errors. Be interesting to find out!
I know all about that bit of paper, one of my ancestors carefully carried it round and used itfor every family registration event in Scotland for about 80 years. Pity the mother 's surname does not exist anywhere on earth.
OC
You’ve been posting while I wasn’t looking.
Ha ha. Interesting scenarios!
OC - perhaps it was the same person wth the flowery handwriting dashing around the country dishing out bits of paper to the unsuspecting?
Janet in Yorkshire
07-09-20, 11:51
OC - perhaps it was the same person wth the flowery handwriting dashing around the country dishing out bits of paper to the unsuspecting?
I attended a talk once when it was said that there were "ghetto scribes" who charged coppers for writing down names, dates, addresses etc for the illiterate or for emigrant residents.
I attended a talk once when it was said that there were "ghetto scribes" who charged coppers for writing down names, dates, addresses etc for the illiterate or for emigrant residents.
I'm back. Sorry, been entertaining (at a distance) for Labor Day here.
That's very interesting and quite plausible in this case. Thanks for that, Janet.
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