View Full Version : John William Horseman
Was never born, never died and materialises from Mars in 1825, to disappear in 1829.
1825 - 1829
Clerk in the Paymaster's office, Whitehall
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBOR%2FKAL%2FIK_1829%2F0142&parentid=GBOR%2FKAL%2FSPAC%2F0231260
5 June 1829
John William Houseman, government officer of Stepney and Rebecca had their son John William baptised in Castle Camps, Cambridgeshire (where Rebecca was born in 1804:
https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=9841&h=48510661&ssrc=pt&tid=1256819&pid=190112496106)
30 November 1829
John William Horseman marries Rebecca Taylor in St Martins Worcester
By 1841, Rebecca Horseman is in Manchester with sister Clara Taylor and neice Mary Lanning. No sign of John William Horseman
Can anyone see anyone who might be John (or his son) anywhere?
I'm presuming Rebecca is the person (re-)marrying to George Lanning in 1845 in Marylebone district? Mrs L is b 1804 Castle Camp Cambs in 1851, 1871 and 1881.
Yup.
I can't find John in the calendar for 1830, so whether there was a huge scandal over his marriage and illegitimate child, goodness knows.
Rebecca's sister Clara called her daughter Lydia Horseman Ashworth in 1845, which suggests the Taylor family weren't ashamed of any connection.
I see there are lots of newspaper entries like this one below (1836), in the 1830s, but a lot of them are dated at the bottom 1826. I don't know if they are still just adding his name for the later ones or whether the date is incorrect, or whether he was still the clerk at that time? Or of course, maybe this is a different man.
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0001427%2f18361109%2f002&stringtohighlight=john%20houseman%20clerk
Forget that one as his PCC will gives him an adult son called John who is already married by Aug 1837.
It would have been interesting to see the age of that John, ut there doesn't seem to be a death reg and I can't see a burial record. He must have died Aug/Spet 1837.
I did wonder if he could be the father of the man you are looking for and so the son mentioned would be JWH senior (straw clutching?!!).
I started reading the will properly, but had to stop because I have to set off to walk to mum's home soon.
Oh, forget that too as his son has the wrong wife!!
I'm thinking that he is really a Horseman, rather than Houseman, as that's the name in both Rebecca's marriages and the Royal and Imperial Calendar. Unfortunate, as Houseman would be far easier to research!
kiterunner
01-09-20, 09:17
FMP has John William Horseman bapt 20 Sep 1806 Whipsnade, Beds, son of James and Harriett.
kiterunner
01-09-20, 09:24
I think this is James and Harriett in 1841. James is Rector of Middle (aka Myddle) and they have a son Thomas who is a surgeon:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8978/images/SALHO107_917_918-0473?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Ctf24994&_phstart=successSource&pId=9630094
kiterunner
01-09-20, 09:26
James Horseman died Jul-Sep 1844 Ellesmere district age 65.
kiterunner
01-09-20, 09:29
Index to Death Duties Register:
https://search.findmypast.com/record?id=BMD%2FIR27%2F269%2F165&parentid=BMD%2FD%2FDDUTY%2F692615
So there should be a will.
kiterunner
01-09-20, 09:31
James's will:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/5111/images/40611_309675-00106?backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=00dc5c61773485c9f97bdd14989df03d&pId=394130
Doesn't seem to mention a grandson by his deceased son, but if the grandson had died too, he wouldn't.
Edit - but he does mention Rebecca Horseman widow of his late son John William Horseman. And she had to wait till James died to remarry, or forgo her inheritance.
Written 7 Jun 1844, so it doesn't help with narrowing down the date of either John William's death.
kiterunner
01-09-20, 09:44
This is his entry in the Horsman / Horseman one-name study but no additional info to what we have already found:
https://horsman.one-name.net/getperson.php?personID=I4445&tree=Horsman
Oh wow, wow and triple wow!!!
I completely disregarded that as George Lanning was a whitesmith,so I didn't think that Rebecca would have moved in those sorts of circles.
Now to wait till I tell Best Mate.
Thank you so much, Kite. That would explain why Rebecca waited six years before she married George and probably the inheritance gave them the money to set up as lodging house keepers.
Oooh, that's a good find!! Better than the visit to mum which lasted about 20 seconds!
When one of the other sons of Rev James passed away, he had a mention in the paper:
21 July 1824 - Bury and Norwich Post - Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Lately, on bis passage home from Bengal, James Edward, second son of the Rev. James Horseman, M. A. Rector of Little Gaddesden, in Hertfordshire, and of Whipsnade, in Bedfordshire. He was a fine promising youth not quite 15 years of age.
I don't know if you need to go back (maybe not?) but James and his father were both Oxford alumni and died just four days apart.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8942/images/RDUK1500_0001-0706?ssrc=&backlabel=Return&pId=112490
kiterunner
01-09-20, 12:40
I don't know if you need to go back (maybe not?) but James and his father were both Oxford alumni and died just four days apart.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8942/images/RDUK1500_0001-0706?ssrc=&backlabel=Return&pId=112490
Aren't they brothers?
Sounds as if the shock of one death killed the other. And given that they both appeared to marry women called Jones, I wonder if two brothers married two sisters?
Aren't they brothers?
Yes, and had tey survived another seven years, the other researchers could have seen they came from Oxfordshire. Their mother was Ursula Ironside, a name filtering down the years.
I note that James moved to Myddle, abandoning his furniture! in 1829. 1829 was a very busy year.
Aren't they brothers?
Sorry, I misread something!
Is this the father?:
03 July 1806 - Saint James's Chronicle - London, London, England
June 25, at Souldern, Oxfordshire, in his 73d year, the Rev. John Horseman, B. D. upwards of 34 years Rector of that parish, and formerly Fellow of St. John's College, Cambrldge.
03 July 1806 - Saint James's Chronicle - London, London, England
Cambridge University Alumni, 1261-1900
Name: John Horseman
College: ST JOHN'S
Entered: 1751
Died: 25 Jun 1806
More Information: Adm. sizar (age 17) at ST JOHN'S, July 2, 1751. S. of James, clerk, of Durham. B. at Greatham. Educated by his father. Matric. 1751; B.A. 1755; M.A. 1758; B.D. 1766. Fellow, 1757-73. Ord. deacon (Lincoln) Sept. 19, 1756; priest (Durham) Sept. 25, 1757. R. of Soulderne, Oxon., 1772-1806. Died June 25, 1806. M.I. at Soulderne. (Scott. Mayor, III. 609.)
Yep, that's the boy. Married up in Durham and only had two (at least surviving) children.
John H married Emma and appeared to have one surviving daughter - with Ursula as a middle name after her paternal granny.
James H married Harriet and had 3 children reaching adulthood: "my" John William who married in 1829, Thomas Edmund who emigrated to Australia and Harriet who married William Kirkby and is living next door to Mum and Dad in 1841 (the enumerator made a complete hash of her surname)
Do you have info re Thomas Edmund Horseman? If not, I can give you a bit from his time in Australia.
Ooh, it would be good to know when exactly he went out, and if he remained a surgeon.
Thanks, Bev
I guess you have him on the 1851 census:82 Middle Wood, Middle, with wife Jane, dau Jane Harriet, stepsons Thos Williams and Joseph Cartwright and wife's aunt Jane Matthews. Thomas is a surgeon;General Practitioner.
I have a marriage cert for Thomas , surgeon, and Jane Cartwright (widow) 18 March 1846 at the parish church, Middle
Thomas E. surgeon, and Jane seem to have emigrated from Liverpool per 'Ottillia' with daughter Jane Harriet in 1852, bound for Port Philip (Melbourne).
https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=1635&h=2612607&tid=&pid=&queryId=4250a9c7bac163e2777bb7462f0775d2&usePUB=true&_phsrc=CRL8541&_phstart=successSource
I think Jane may have died in Melbourne in 1858. The age given is right, but there are not enough details to be sure...you would have to get the death cert.
Thomas seems to have moved to Western Australia, but I can't find out when.
1877, T. Horseman copped a 14 day sentence in jail for being drunk and disorderly in Perth. Can't be sure it is your man, as he is listed as a labourer. although the age is about right.
1881 here is a death of a Thomas Edmund Horseman in WA, which is right for age, but again -you would need the death cert to be sure.
1896 -There is an inquiry as to the whereabouts of Thomas Edmund Horseman in Australian papers from Patersons, Snow, Bloxam & Kinder of Lincoln's-inn-fields, London. If he was still alive on the 24 May 1894, he was entitled to a share of the real and personal estate of one William Edward Jones
I have some of the images of the above if you want them....just PM an email address.
If I come across any other stuff i'll add it here.
Jane Harriett Horseman was baptised 13 Feb 1848 Myddle Shrops
She emigrated with her parents in 1852
From this site: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/159958473/jane-harriett-taylor
Married William Edward Taylor (1838-1908) in1869 Victoria
Chn: William Edward Taylor 1870-1870
Thomas Edmund Taylor 1873-1873
Ernest Augustus Taylor 1875-1876
Alfred Horseman Taylor 1876-1962
Jane Horseman Taylor Young
1880-1921
Jessie Horseman Taylor 1883-1885
Died 25 Jun 1927 Perth WA
Thanks, Bev!
William Edward Jones must have been a first cousin as he was 84 when he died 24 May 1895. He was in Whitchurch, so had never moved.
I think it is so sad that families lost touch, particularly following emigration.
Given that one brother died under 15, returning from Bengal (had he been intended for the East India Company, but was unable to cope with the climate?) and another emigrates to Australia, I suppose it was possible that John William Horseman himself emigrated to start a new life, and died abroad. Or, since I have him in London, Cambridgeshire, Worcester, Bedfordshire, and his presumed widow in Manchester, he could have died anywhere, and the burial is not online.
Best Mate is over the moon with this.
It suddenly starts to make sense of some of the tangled stories we heard as children.
Thank you, everyone!
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