View Full Version : GRO Index Page Numbers
maggie_4_7
11-08-20, 13:27
How or where can I find the page numbers for registration districts?
I feel I could answer this if I understood exactly what you are asking!
Each reg district begins with page one in each Q for each year for Births, Marriages or Deaths......
If it's marriages you want to place, there's this:
http://www.marriage-locator.co.uk/?fbclid=IwAR0uPsUOme1cVL273kejlvh1chy30R3Ww4gOfXBR vWj2ksf6yLjjMsgpeIs
13 is Norfolk - up to about 1851. Is that what you mean?
13 is Norfolk - up to about 1851. Is that what you mean?
So, volume number, not page number?
maggie_4_7
11-08-20, 16:14
I wanted to browse a few pages in certain areas in 1850 - 1857 but I don't think it is possible and even if it was it wouldn't be practical or feasible that I could or that I would find what I need.
Basically I lose my grt grt grandmother's older sister after 1861, on that census she is Sarah E Palmer with two children Louisa Jane Palmer born 1852 and Emma Anne Palmer born 1857 I know it is Sarah because her brother Walter Wingfield is with them. Sarah is a widow.
https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1861&indiv=try&h=5589897
I have always thought this was Sarah but I can't be sure right name right age right birth place with a son Thomas William born Bethnal Green. There is a SW Workman but I am sure that is a mistake, different house. Sarah says married.
https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=8860&h=2260387&ssrc=pt&tid=1310698&pid=-1087662071&usePUB=true
I haven't found Louisa's birth record but I found her death and it is her I bought the cert, in looking for Louisa under both Palmer and Wingfield I found a Emma Palmer Wingfield, couldn't be a coincidence, born 1850 sent for cert and it is Sarah's daughter no father given but the Palmer is a giveaway.
So I looked for Emma Anne's and I got the cert and it gives Frederick Palmer 2nd Mate Merchant Service which is all I know about him, registered by Sarah I assume she is on her own but married because she didn't lie on the first Emma's birth as being married.
I have searched high and low for a marriage but can't find one or Sarah anywhere after 1861.
Edit to say she probably died but then I can't find Emma Anne I did find a 1871 census with a Emma Anne on servant but she is twenty, no marriage found I must admit didn't look for a death for either yet. I suppose Sarah probably lied about being married on Emma Anne's birth record.
ANOTHER EDIT: Frederick Palmer is 2nd Mate Merchant Service, Service being passenger ships I think rather than Navy.
I've looked at all Louisa Janes, born 1851-1853 Shoreditch and could not find any with Wingfield as maiden name (or Palmer)
The internet is playing up here and I can't access Ancestry or any other FH site.
Have you looked for Thomas William's birth cert and mmn?
kiterunner
11-08-20, 18:01
You can't browse pages for certain areas, unfortunately, because the GRO mixes all registration districts together and indexes by name. But you can specify county and / or registration district when searching on FreeBMD.
maggie_4_7
11-08-20, 18:02
The internet is playing up here and I can't access Ancestry or any other FH site.
Have you looked for Thomas William's birth cert and mmn?
I found this which I thought was a bit weird:
https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=8912&h=26236968&ssrc=pt&tid=1310698&pid=422091292898&usePUB=true
Name: Thomas William Palmer Palmer
Registration Year: 1846
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Bethnal Green
FVolume: 2
Page: 54
No maiden name and Palmer twice! Although Sarah is not married then.
I did look under Wingfield but I will look again.
Edit: nothing under Wingfield without a maiden name 2 years either side of 1846.
Births Sep 1846 (>99%)
Palmer Thomas William Palmer Bethnal Gn 2 54 Scan available -
Wingfield Thomas William Palmer Bethnal Green 2 54
Wingfield Thomas William Tolmer Bethnal Green 2 _4
kiterunner
11-08-20, 18:09
Thomas William Palmer's birth was registered Jul-Sep 1846 Bethnal Green and indexed under both surnames - Palmer and Wingfield. The GRO site just lists him under Palmer and shows MMN as - .
maggie_4_7
11-08-20, 18:31
Ahh it is her then :)
Oh never saw the Wingfield one, only looking on GRO and looked for it on Ancestry to post here.
Good because I ordered the PDF.
Thank you everyone, hopefully he didn't die but as he isn't on 1861 :rolleyes: but he would be 15 and quite likely a servant somewhere.
I had better look for a death.
maggie_4_7
11-08-20, 18:33
Thomas William Palmer's birth was registered Jul-Sep 1846 Bethnal Green and indexed under both surnames - Palmer and Wingfield. The GRO site just lists him under Palmer and shows MMN as - .
Would that mean Frederick was with Sarah when Thomas was registered?
kiterunner
11-08-20, 18:38
It would after 1875 but maybe not in 1846.
maggie_4_7
12-08-20, 06:13
I've looked at all Louisa Janes, born 1851-1853 Shoreditch and could not find any with Wingfield as maiden name (or Palmer)
Thank you, neither could I. Perhaps she didn't register Louisa. Couldn't find any baptisms for any of them.
maggie_4_7
12-08-20, 06:14
It would after 1875 but maybe not in 1846.
So for Emma Anne's registration if she was on her own she wouldn't have to prove she was married?
No. My ancestor registered her baby under the (reputed) father's surname in 1840. The registrar accepted this.
The rector knew perfectly well that she was on her own - as the reputed father married another girl he had got into trouble - so the baptism was under the mother's surname.
Registrars had to cover such a wide area that they appear to have known very little of the lives of those who came to register events. Even where they asked questions, they appear not to have checked the answers.
maggie_4_7
12-08-20, 09:09
No. My ancestor registered her baby under the (reputed) father's surname in 1840. The registrar accepted this.
The rector knew perfectly well that she was on her own - as the reputed father married another girl he had got into trouble - so the baptism was under the mother's surname.
Registrars had to cover such a wide area that they appear to have known very little of the lives of those who came to register events. Even where they asked questions, they appear not to have checked the answers.
Well my grt grt grandmother Emma Wingfield registered her first child my grt grandmother Martha Louisa as a Wingfield because she hadn't married the father William Sayer, which did later on, but she put the father down as William Wingfield to really confuse everyone probably learnt it from her older sister Sarah :D
When BM's great aunt went to register her illegitimate baby, the question of who the dad was completely threw her. She'd already used her own surname, so she named her brother as the father :eek::eek::eek:
We assume that this was a panicked attempt to appear respectable, rather than acknowledging a case of incest ;(
maggie_4_7
12-08-20, 09:27
when bm's great aunt went to register her illegitimate baby, the question of who the dad was completely threw her. She'd already used her own surname, so she named her brother as the father :eek::eek::eek:
We assume that this was a panicked attempt to appear respectable, rather than acknowledging a case of incest ;(
:d :d
When BM's great aunt went to register her illegitimate baby, the question of who the dad was completely threw her. She'd already used her own surname, so she named her brother as the father :eek::eek::eek:
We assume that this was a panicked attempt to appear respectable, rather than acknowledging a case of incest ;(
OH's 3Xggrandmother left her husband and older children for a younger man, and spent the next 20 years apparently trying to hide her true identity. When she eventually married him (bigamously) she gave her correct married name for the first time, but named her father as the groom's brother (who was also a witness). It took a while to disentangle what as going on!
Olde Crone
12-08-20, 10:48
Quite a few of mine did not understand the question either! She named the father of her child as her own father. Fortunately for my sanity, he had been dead for many years.
OC
My great grandfather, William, has Joseph for a father on his birth cert, instead of James.
It was OC who gave me the idea than Uncle Joe registered the birth.
Have since found some anecdotal evidence through old letters that William was born while his mother was visiting her family. It annoys me having the wrong name as the father, but not much I can do. So, certainly there can be lies and mistakes on certs.
maggie_4_7
13-08-20, 20:40
Edited original post because Frederick Palmer is 2nd Mate Merchant Service, Service being passenger ships I think rather than Navy.
Not sure I am right.
maggie_4_7
14-08-20, 13:41
Recieved Thomas' birth certificate.
Born: 19 August 1846
Place: 2 Albion Place Hackney Road
Father: Thomas William Palmer occupation solicitor!
Mother: Sarah Eliza Wingfield
So we now have two fathers, Thomas William and Frederick!
kiterunner
14-08-20, 14:20
Who registered Thomas's birth, Maggie?
maggie_4_7
14-08-20, 14:22
Who registered Thomas's birth, Maggie?
Sarah I'm afraid so I am beginning to think she made them up but why not use the same name!
Sarah I'm afraid so I am beginning to think she made them up but why not use the same name!
How do you know it's the same man?
Actually, I'd begin to wonder whether Fred's surname was Palmer.
kiterunner
14-08-20, 15:17
Hmm, here is a Thomas William Palmer, solicitor (retired) in 1911 but if his age is correct (80) he would be too young to be Thomas's father:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBC%2F1911%2FRG14%2F12249%2F0211&parentid=GBC%2F1911%2FRG14%2F12249%2F0211%2F1
kiterunner
14-08-20, 15:21
And in 1861 his age is down as 32, so still too young:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBC%2F1861%2F2173%2F00293A&parentid=GBC%2F1861%2F0011726059
kiterunner
14-08-20, 15:29
Thomas William Palmer baptised 17 Jan 1829 Coleshill, son of Thomas and Ann Eleanor.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/2446/images/4004431_00062?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx60544&_phstart=successSource&pId=4435177
I wouldn't have thought he would be old enough to describe himself as a solicitor in 1846, but his father's occupation is Attorney on that baptism, so maybe Thomas William was learning the family trade in 1846?
maggie_4_7
14-08-20, 15:43
How do you know it's the same man?
Actually, I'd begin to wonder whether Fred's surname was Palmer.
I don't :confused:
Hmm, here is a Thomas William Palmer, solicitor (retired) in 1911 but if his age is correct (80) he would be too young to be Thomas's father:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBC%2F1911%2FRG14%2F12249%2F0211&parentid=GBC%2F1911%2FRG14%2F12249%2F0211%2F1
I did find this one:
https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=YbB476&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&_phtarg=YbB410&dbid=8978&gsfn=Thomas%20William&gsln=Palmer&cp=4&_83004003-n_xcl=f&mssng=Sarah%20Eliza&mssns=Wingfield&mscng=Thomas%20William%20Palmer&mscns=Wingfield&msbdy=1821&ssrc=pt_t1310698_p422218447349&new=1&rank=1&uidh=ek4&redir=false&msT=1&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=5&h=15300758&recoff=&ml_rpos=6&queryId=2d4b7f7f1620fa76610a6386127d162a
kiterunner
14-08-20, 15:48
I don't :confused:
I did find this one:
https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=YbB476&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&_phtarg=YbB410&dbid=8978&gsfn=Thomas%20William&gsln=Palmer&cp=4&_83004003-n_xcl=f&mssng=Sarah%20Eliza&mssns=Wingfield&mscng=Thomas%20William%20Palmer&mscns=Wingfield&msbdy=1821&ssrc=pt_t1310698_p422218447349&new=1&rank=1&uidh=ek4&redir=false&msT=1&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=5&h=15300758&recoff=&ml_rpos=6&queryId=2d4b7f7f1620fa76610a6386127d162a
We don't know whether that one had a middle name William, though.
I wonder whether either of those Thomases had a brother called Frederick who was a sailor?
maggie_4_7
14-08-20, 16:05
We don't know whether that one had a middle name William, though.
I wonder whether either of those Thomases had a brother called Frederick who was a sailor?
:)
I do find it strange that Sarah would know a solicitor.
Although my elusive Caroline Hannah Kendall who was a barmaid in the Windmill, 18 Nicholas lane, Lombard street EC3 and then married into a family of notaries, although not vastly wealthy a lot more well off than her and most people. Her husband's grandfather left quite a bit of money in his will but after his grandson died and although all married in wives had a mention and some money there was not one mention of Caroline.
maggie_4_7
14-08-20, 18:06
Thomas William Palmer baptised 17 Jan 1829 Coleshill, son of Thomas and Ann Eleanor.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/2446/images/4004431_00062?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx60544&_phstart=successSource&pId=4435177
I wouldn't have thought he would be old enough to describe himself as a solicitor in 1846, but his father's occupation is Attorney on that baptism, so maybe Thomas William was learning the family trade in 1846?
I have looked at baptisms for that couple looks like they only had one other child, a daughter.
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