Hannah Thomas

[Zoemcdougall]

I was looking for the grave of my grandad's sister, who died in 1904, aged 2 of measles, I have now found out where she is buried, in Royton Lancashire, but i was shocked to learn that there was 8 buried in the grave, one was an Edna Worthy, She would have been Hannah's Gtrandmother Edna Worthy, the other 6 in the grave were some Edna's children ages of deaths ranging from 1month to 28yrs,

But Edna's Husband Joseph Worthy was buried in a different cemetery in Lancashire he died 1941, he is buried with one other a Saxon Smith, but he died in 1909,

I understand that people can be buried in different cemetery, but what i dont get is why he was put in a grave with a person I dont think has any family connections. well not that i have found. Could Joseph have laid to rest in a paupers grave.


Edna Worthy nee Toft was the daughter of Edna Toft a previous post.

[Olde Crone]

In my family it seemed to be the custom to buy a grave, fill it with family members and then buy another. But if there was no money or no grave, then a pauper's grave would be the only alternative.

OC

[Merry]

Better if you call it a public grave rather than a paupers grave as, though the rich wouldn't normally use them, many ordinary people who were not paupers did.

[Olde Crone]

It was also war time and that might have had something to do with it. Perhaps they couldn't track.down a relative. If it was a public grave (sorry Merry!) it's a bit odd that it was so many years between burials, they normally would be filled fairly quickly.

OC

[Merry]

Maybe Saxon Smith is a relative after all?!

EDIT He's Smith Saxon, not Saxon Smith!

[Zoemcdougall]

Sorry Merry, I didn't mean to cause offence, I will say a public Grave,

I have tried looking for info on Saxon smith but not got very far, do you think he could be a relative? ! Merry

[Zoemcdougall]

Thank you OC, Joseph Worthy was buried in Chadderton, where his wife some of their children and their grandaughter Hannah ( my Great Aunt) were buried in Oldham.

[Olde Crone]

His name is Smith Saxon according to death records, not Saxon Smith.
I've had a quick look but can't see any obvious connection.

OC

[Merry]

Sorry Merry, I didn't mean to cause offence, I will say a public Grave,

I have tried looking for info on Saxon smith but not got very far, do you think he could be a relative? ! Merry

His mmn was Wild if that helps.

I didn't mean anything you had said would cause offence - I thought you seemed perplexed that your relative might have been considered a pauper, so I was just pointling out public graves were not just for paupers!

[Olde Crone]

Chadderton and Royton are less than 3 miles apart.

Snap Merry!

OC

[Zoemcdougall]

Merry, I haven't come across the Name of Wild in my research into my family tree, but that does mean that there isn't a connection, but you never know, he might be, just have to keep looking,

in my recent searches for family members, i come across quite a few interred with no headstones, my mums maternal grandmothers first husband was in an un marked grave, just a small stone to pinpoint where he was buried, her second husband my great grandfather, offered to buy a head stone for it but she refused as she thought the one he offer to get t wasn't good enough,

her first husband committed suicide and left her with 3 small children the youngest being aged 2months,

my great grandfather brought them up as his own along with 3 children he had with my great grandmother

[Zoemcdougall]

Thank you both, i know that where Hannah is buried with her grandmother Edna and Edna's children the headstone has been removed

[Olde Crone]

Um, Lancsbmd has this birth

1906 Oldham Smith Saxon, mother's maiden name WORTHY

And that takes me to

John Saxon to Lucy Worthy, 1904 Heyside St Mark Oldham.

OC

[Olde Crone]

Oh but......
Death 1909 Smith Saxon age 28, 1909 Oldham.

OC

[Merry]

Yes, but I bet the two Smith Saxons are connected!

[Olde Crone]

Yes, bound to be.

OC

[Merry]

John Saxon who married Lucy Worthy was born about 1880 in Oldham (1911 census). On the 1881 census he is aged 1 and the child of Samuel Saxon and his wife Sarah.

Samuel and Sarah are the parents of Smith Saxon who is in the grave in 1909, but Smith wasn't born yet in 1881 (think he was born in 1882! EDIT, No he wasn't - he was born very soon after the 1881 census and registered in Q2 1881 - see OC's post further down!).

So, when Smith Saxon died his burial may have been organised by his brother John and John's wife Lucy Worthy. Later Lucy Worthy's relative (?) Joseph Worthy went into the same grave in 1941.

[Merry]

Ah, Joseph Worthy was Lucy's father (1891 and 1901 census).

Had you not got a husband for Lucy on your tree Zoe?

[Merry]

Here's the 1901 census showing Samuel and Sarah Saxon with their two sons - John who would later marry Lucy Worthy (dau of Joseph and Edna Worthy) and Smith who died in 1909.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7814/LANRG13_3806_3808-0950?pid=24057713&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DWEQ4596%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D7814%26gs fn%3Dsamuel%26gsln%3Dsaxon%26gsfn_x%3D1%26gsln_x%3 D1%26cp%3D11%26mssng%3Dsarah%26mssng_x%3D1%26mssns _x%3D1%26qh%3D06701111e4d0628c12577d4266c929b6%26n ew%3D1%26rank%3D1%26uidh%3D672%26redir%3Dfalse%26g ss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D35%26fh%3D0%26h%3D24057713%26recoff%3D% 26ml_rpos%3D1%26queryId%3D93bd921eba75c7d25b7339f9 a6cc0c47&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=93bd921eba75c7d25b7339f9a6cc0c47&usePUB=true&_phsrc=WEQ4596&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

[Olde Crone]

Smith Saxon was born June quarter in 1881.

On the Oldham burial site, he is shown as age 0. Handy to know that 0 must mean no age recorded rather than the usual meaning of an infant.

OC

[Zoemcdougall]

Hi Merry

No i didnt have a name of the husband of Lucy ,

Lucy being my Great grandmothers sister,

[Zoemcdougall]

Merry are you saying That saxon Smith buried my Great Great Grandfather was related

[Merry]

Merry are you saying That saxon Smith buried my Great Great Grandfather was related


I'm not quite sure what you are asking, but ....

Lucy was your great-grandmother's sister, so your great-great-aunt. Lucy was married to John Saxon. John Saxon had a brother called Smith Saxon who died as a young man in 1909. This Smith Saxon (not your blood relative as he was only connected by marriage) was buried at Chadderton Cemetery in grave C7 123. I think this was most likely a purchased grave (so not public/pauper!), because it eventually only has two bodies in it, but a public grave would normally have been used numerous times over the years.

So, Lucy's brother-in-law was buried there in 1909. After that, the Saxon family didn't use the grave again. Time went on and Lucy was widowed and also her mother had died and was buried elsewhere. In 1941 Lucy's father, Joseph Worthy, died and for reasons we don't know, he was not interred with his wife Enid. Perhaps the grave was full, or perhaps things were tricky because of WW2, or some other reason. We can't know who actually organised Joseph's funeral. It might have been his daughter Maria as Joseph was recorded in her household for the 1939 Register (Maria Worthy married David Sutcliffe in 1912). Perhaps Maria came across an issue with burying her father and Lucy remembered the grave containing her brother-in-law, Smith Saxon, so suggested to Maria they use it for their father.

So, the two bodies in the grave are not blood relatives of each other, but they are connected by their families.