Potter Family (kidderminster/Wrexham) 1800's

[NickJarvis]

Hi

Can I get some more help please? I cannot think of how else to continue as everything I try draws a blank. I am still at the stage where I need help, but unable to offer my help due to me being relatively new. Apologies.

I have a Louisa Potter (b. circa 1867/1868). She was the daughter of Richard and Ann Potter (Jones). Richard was born in Kidderminster and Ann was born in Ruabon, Wales (UK). Richard was born circa 1837 and Ann circa 1842 (married 28/10/1854).

So many trees on Ancestry have Louisa as marrying an Edward Jones and then dying as Louisa Jones in 1893. They also have Louisa having quite a large family (children, grand children etc). However, regardless of how I search (ancestry/FMP/Gro) I cannot find a parish marriage or civil marriage anywhere. Whether one tree on Ancestry knows for definite they got married, and everyone else has just copied this info? I however need to see some sort of evidence before adding to my tree, which I cannot find. A similar issue is where I am finding a family on a census, but some of the children have no record on Gro (also the Potter family). I thought Gro had everything?

Thanks
Nick

[ElizabethHerts]

Here is Louisa's birth registration:

POTTER, LOUISA mother's maiden name JONES
GRO Reference: 1868 M Quarter in WREXHAM Volume 11B Page 320

Which censuses do you have her on?

[NickJarvis]

Thanks Elizabeth. Why would she be Jones Potter? Her mum Ann was nee Jones so maybe kept both surnames?

I have Louisa Potter on the 1871 census, then as a possibility on the 1881 as a servant.

[ElizabethHerts]

Nick, the Jones indicates the mother's maiden name, it's not part of Louisa's name.

[Merry]

Nick, don't worry about not offering help as yet.... we like helping others if we can!

Richard was born circa 1837 and Ann circa 1842 (married 28/10/1854).

Where did you get those marriage details?

I am looking at a parish register image on FMP for a Richard Potter marrying on that date in Ruabon, but the bride is Priscilla Evans, not Ann Jones. Richard is a shoemaker aged 19 father John Potter a hatter.

I've not looked any further as yet, but wondered if there are two (or more!) Richard Potters in the area, or perhaps yours married twice?

[ElizabethHerts]

The marriage with Ann Jones was in 1861:
First name(s) Richard
Last name Potter
Age 25
Birth year 1836
Event year 1861
Banns year -
Marriage year 1861
Marriage date 14 Mar 1861
Marriage place Ruabon
Father's first name(s) John
Father's last name Potter
Spouse's first name(s) Ann
Spouse's last name Jones
Spouse's age 19
Spouse's birth year 1842
Spouse's father's last name Jones
Spouse's father's first name(s) John
County Denbighshire
Country Wales
Event Marriage


Yes, Merry, he was a widower.

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBPRS%2FWAL%2F4235370%2F00173&parentid=GBPRS%2FM%2F880010517%2F1

[Merry]

Ok, I think it's the same Richard marrying in Ruabon in 1861 (14th March, I think, the 14 is a bit unclear). He is now a widower, still a shoemaker and same father's details. This means (amongst other things) Ann Jones is a more sensible age at her marriage - I was bothered about her being a young teen!

If you don't have a sub to FMP I can type out the rest of the marriage details. Let me know.

[Merry]

Ooh, snap Elizabeth!

[ElizabethHerts]

Here is Priscilla Potter's burial:

First name(s) Priscilla
Last name Potter
Age 23
Birth year 1837
Burial year 1860
Burial date 19 Mar 1860
Place Rhosllanerchrugog
Parish Rhosllanerchrugog
County Denbighshire
Country Wales
Page 72
Archive year range -
Record set Denbighshire Burials

[Merry]

Priscilla Potter was buried 18 Mar 1860 at Rhosllanerchrugog aged 23 (FMP image)

[ElizabethHerts]

There is a baptism for a Mary Ann Potter, parents Richard and Ann, in 1862:

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBPRS%2FWAL%2F4631570%2F00033&parentid=GBPRS%2FB%2F879251935%2F1

[Phoenix]

Here are Edward and Louisa Jons in 1891:

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBC%2F1891%2F4613%2F0059&parentid=GBC%2F1891%2F0031261160

Edward Jones Head Married Male 26 1865 Coal Miner Pentre, Denbighshire, Wales
Louisa Jones Wife Married Female 24 1867 - Ruabon, Denbighshire, Wales
John Jones Son - Male 6 1885 - Ruabon, Denbighshire, Wales
Edward Jones Son - Male 3 1888 - Ruabon, Denbighshire, Wales
Mary Jones Daughter - Female 0 1891 - Ruabon, Denbighshire, Wales

[Phoenix]

This, from the GRO is Edward Jones jnr's birth:

JONES, EDWARD POTTER
GRO Reference: 1888 M Quarter in WREXHAM Volume 11B Page 258

[Phoenix]

So it looks as if Edward Jones was indeed the husband of A louisa Potter, who is the right age to be yours.

[NickJarvis]

Thanks All. I got confused at first too, as I thought mum would have been 14/15. Then I noticed that Elizabeth was Robert's and Priscilla's daughter, Priscilla then died and Robert got with Ann. Then they had several children. Is anyone able to find anything about Louisa? How could there not be a marriage record? I know when paper gets transcribed there can be errors due to illegible writing, but I have also searched on the alleged husband, searching on a very lose filter.

Thanks

[Phoenix]

This might be their marriage:

Marriages Dec 1885 (>99%)
Davies Ann Wrexham 11b 449 Scan available - click to view
HUMPHREYS Lewis Wrexham 11b 449 Scan available - click to view
Jones Edward Wrexham 11b 449 Scan available - click to view
Porter Louisa Wrexham 11b 449 Scan available - click to view

[ElizabethHerts]

The surname seems to have been mistranscribed:

First name(s) EDWARD
Last name JONES
Marriage quarter 4
Marriage year 1885
Registration month -
MarriageFinder ™

EDWARD JONES married one of these people

Louisa Porter, Ann Davies

District Wrexham
District number -
County Denbighshire
Country Wales
Volume 11B
Volume as transcribed 11B
Page number 449
Record set England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005

[ElizabethHerts]

Snap, Phoenix!

[NickJarvis]

Thanks for the offer btw, but I do have a sub to FMP along with ancestry :)

Would it be safe then to assume that Louisa did indeed marry Edward. I did check GRO and found that some of the children had Potter as the maiden name.

Thanks

[NickJarvis]

Sorry, I keep posting in between answers. I will check the latest replies. Thanks :)

[ElizabethHerts]

The banns, definitely Porter.
She would have been underage, so perhaps that explains it.

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBPRS%2FWAL%2F4229669%2F00380&parentid=GBPRS%2FM%2F881002838%2F2

[NickJarvis]

Thanks. How did I miss this? I spent so long searching. Thank-you

[ElizabethHerts]

You need to click on variant spellings or use wild cards, Nick.

[NickJarvis]

Thanks Elizabeth ??

[Phoenix]

Something odd is definitelt happening.

Banns are called Dec 1884/ Jan 1885

Marriage takes place quarter ended December 1885 - but not showing as a parish marriage on FMP - so possibly registry office.

John Jones born quarter ended June 1886.

[ElizabethHerts]

Yes, I just noticed the time difference and I looked on the marriage locator, no parish.

[NickJarvis]

Also Phoenix, is this where FMP has advantages over Ancestry as I still cannot find the Banns on Ancestry. Searched for Porter as this is what appears on FMP

[Phoenix]

Usually, a record office gives exclusive use of its records to a major provider. The records you want in this case (Denbighshire) are only available on FMP.

But if you wanted images for Surrey, they are on Ancestry.

[NickJarvis]

Aha - Thanks. I hadn't realised that. Someone did mention something similar in a previous query I had, but I misunderstood.

Love this forum. So many helpful and knowledgeable people.

Cheers

[ElizabethHerts]

This could well be her death:

JONES, LOUISA 25
GRO Reference: 1893 J Quarter in WREXHAM Volume 11B Page 190

[ElizabethHerts]

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0000496%2f18710708%2f020&stringtohighlight=richard%20potter

There was a report of an alleged assault on Ann Potter, wife of Richard.

[ElizabethHerts]

Mention of Richard Potter:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0000904%2f18731115%2f022&stringtohighlight=richard%20potter

[NickJarvis]

ooooh, thanks Elizabeth. I will take a look.