Joseph Friswell - please not another dead end?

[Anstey Nomad]

Joseph Friswell was my great great great grandfather.

According to what I can find online, he was born in Bedworth, Warwickshire somewhere around 1810, married Elizabeth Matthews at Chilvers Coton, Warwickshire on 20 October 1834, and died in Bedworth at the end of 1894, by which time Elizabeth had pre-deceased him and he was living in the alms houses, which are a bit of a landmark in the town.

It also looks as if he might have livened things up a bit by going to prison for two years in 1852, with others, for going equipped for poaching.

He comes up on four trees on Ancestry, none of which can take me any further back with any degree of certainty or any validated source. There is a suggestion that his parents may be John Friswell and Ann Broadbent, who married at Bedworth on 25 March 1816, almost certainly noticeably after his birth. A John and Ann Friswell certainly took a son Joseph to be baptised at Bedworth, but not until 1 February 1824!

Here he is on the 1861 census:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8767/WARRG9_2197_2199-0555?pid=21261002&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D8767%26h%3D21261002%26t id%3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DaQx354%2 6_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=aQx354&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

I can't find him on the 1871, so here's the 1881:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7572/WARRG11_3061_3065-0833?pid=22763997&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D7572%26h%3D22763997%26t id%3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DaQx356%2 6_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=aQx356&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.218033557.2088590528.1587832895-1511253423.1570966371

Any thoughts as to where I might go from here?

Thanks

[kiterunner]

Bedworth Independent church:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2972/40612_B0150243-00017?pid=1409443&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx51678&_phstart=successSource

Joseph son of John & Ann Frizwell, late Frizwell, born Feby 8 1816 in the parish of Bedworth, baptised by T Dix.

Your Joseph is 47 on the 1861 census which would only be 2 years out.

[kiterunner]

And on the 1841 census he is down as 25, i.e. 25-29:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8978/WARHO107_1135_1136-0315?pid=10877283&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DdNx51681%26_phstart%3DsuccessSour ce%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D8978%26g sfn%3Djos*%26gsfn_x%3D1%26gsln_x%3D1%26cp%3D0%26ms bdy%3D1816%26msbdy_x%3D1%26msbdp%3D10%26msrdy_x%3D 1%26msrpn__ftp%3Dbedworth,%2520warwickshire,%2520e ngland,%2520united%2520kingdom%26msrpn__ftp_x%3D1% 26msrpn%3D88036%26msrpn_x%3D1%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1 %26uidh%3Dvm5%26redir%3Dfalse%26msT%3D1%26gss%3Dan gs-d%26pcat%3D35%26fh%3D2%26h%3D10877283%26recoff%3D% 26ml_rpos%3D3%26queryId%3D9f8d73daae68cf5a06ec0635 df6b6db4&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=9f8d73daae68cf5a06ec0635df6b6db4&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx51681&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.221150232.1076485052.1581782623-1884662557.1572911152

[kiterunner]

They have a son John age 7 months on that 1841 census, which would fit with Joseph's father being called John.

[kiterunner]

John Friswell of Shilton married Ann Friswell of Bedworth 18 Sep 1797 at Shilton, Warks:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2445/4290817_00112?pid=4198437&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx51682&_phstart=successSource

I'll see if I can find baptisms for their children to see if they seem to have carried on having them up to 1816.

[kiterunner]

Hmm, not sure about the children of that 1797 couple yet, but there seems to have been more than one John and Ann couple having children in Bedworth around 1816/7, since there is a William baptised 21 Jul 1816 whose father is a ribbon weaver, and a John baptised 23 Nov 1817 whose father is a shoe maker. (These baptised at the C of E church.)

[kiterunner]

I think this will be the John and Ann whose son Joseph was baptised in 1824, and they are also the parents of the William who was baptised 1816:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8978/WARHO107_1135_1136-0240?pid=10874526&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx51687&_phstart=successSource

1841 census
Friswell Jno 40 Ribbon Weaver Y
Friswell Ann 45 Do Y
Friswell Wm 24 Do Y
Friswell Jos 17 Do Y
Knight Sarah 12 Do Ap Y

So your Joseph is not the one baptised 1824.

[kiterunner]

There is also this John on the 1841 census:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8978/WARHO107_1135_1136-0314?pid=10877221&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx51688&_phstart=successSource

John Friswell 65 Shoe M Y
Mary Do 60 Y.

[kiterunner]

John Friswell, widower, married Mary Butler 3 Dec 1827:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2445/4290980_00631?pid=4250387&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx51690&_phstart=successSource

So the John who is with Mary in 1841 could have had a first wife called Ann.

[Anstey Nomad]

Thanks for digging these out. It clearly merits further study. I rail against 'yoonique' names today, but in a case like this one or two would not go amiss!

Thanks again

[Anstey Nomad]

I think these might be my people in 1841, but of course I'm searching on Ancestry, so even with all options open they seem to think therfe were only 6 Friswells of any spelling in Bedworth and Foleshill in 1841, so I can't find the image. *frustrated*

[Nell]

Oh how I feel your frustration. Once you get back to about 1790ish every piddling village has a handful of John & Anns, or William & Marys or Thomas & Susans or Joseph & Janes that are not quite the right fit. I've got zillions of examples. I know they are all related somehow, but how is the tricky bit.

But even more recently, my gt gt grandfather William Williams managed to provide 5 different birth years and 5 different (but equally plausible) birth places on 5 censuses. He's the only chap I have on so many. Worse still, the blighter refuses to die or be buried and so does his wife Susan!

[kiterunner]

I think these might be my people in 1841, but of course I'm searching on Ancestry, so even with all options open they seem to think therfe were only 6 Friswells of any spelling in Bedworth and Foleshill in 1841, so I can't find the image. *frustrated*

I think your John could be the one in post #8 with (second) wife Mary, AN. There is a link in that post.

Edit - oh, maybe not, just reread the stuff about the different baptisms!

[kiterunner]

FreeCEN says 100% transcriptions done for Warwickshire on the 1841, so you could search on there:
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_queries/new?locale=en

Their transcriptions should be way more accurate.

[Anstey Nomad]

Thanks, that helps.

I see the address on this one is Bull and Butch Yard, rather than Bull and ***** Yard, which we had before and which sounded like more fun.