View Full Version : trying to trace Elizabeth Barclay 's birth and ancestors
Hi ,I am researching my husbands , ancestors on the Barclay side . William John Hartley Married Elizabeth Barclay . in 1899 , ormskirk . his father was william Hartley deceased Carter . Address southport rd Ormskirk . Elizabeth Barclay born around 1876/ 77 don't know whereabouts she was living in moor st ormskirk ,father William Barclay soldier Deceased. . I have had a word with an uncle who suggests that there was a scottish connection but don't know if it's correct or not .I have been using family search census ' s but can't seem to be able to glean a lot from them . they are not as informative as Ancestry . any help gratefully received.thanks .
You could have given us the registrations for their children. The first seems to be William, registered 1899 Q4 Ormskirk.
The following few births are:
Thomas James 1901
Nellie 1904
Jack 1906
Margaret Agnes 1908
Mollie 1911
This info can help to trace the right family on the 1901 and 1911 census.
You say the father was William John Harley and the mother Elizabeth Barclay, but at their marriage he is John Hartley and she is Mary Elizabeth Barclay (Lancs OPC).
Marriage: 10 Jul 1899 St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England
John Hartley - 23, Engine Cleaner, Bachelor, Southport Road, Ormskirk
Mary Elizabeth Barclay - 23, Spinster, Moor Street, Ormskirk
Groom's Father: William Hartley, Deceased, Carter
Bride's Father: William Barclay, Deceased, Soldier
Witness: Nellie Pearce; John Johnson
Married by Banns by: John E Woodrow, Vicar
Register: Marriages 1899 - 1911, Page 7, Entry 14
Source: LDS Film 1849649
The 1901 and 1911 census records give the same details for their birth dates and places
John Hartley b about 1875/6 Halsall, Lancashire
Mary Elizabeth b about 1876/7 Liverpool, Lancashire
There's a Mary Elizabeth Barclay registered in Liverpool in 1873 mmn Handley (so a bit early, but the right name). She has a sister, Sarah Ann reg 1878. This is not the right family as their father is Edward Barclay a labourer.
There's also this baptism (also a bit early) which needs investigating.
Baptism: 6 Sep 1874 St Barnabas, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Mary Elizabeth Barkley - [Child] of William Barkley & Hannah
Abode: 80 Greenland St.
Occupation: Labourer
Notes: Privately. Received into the Ch. Oct. 20th
Baptised by: C. D. Winslow
Register: Baptisms 1841 - 1892, Page 224, Entry 1800
Source: LDS Film 2147909
and this one could be a sibling:
Hannah Barkley b 18 Dec 1881 bap 5 Feb 1882 Princes Park, St Paul parents William (labourer) and Hannah. Address 20 Arthur St.
I can't see a registration for either birth.
In 1881 a John Barclay and wife Letitia are living at 20 Arthur Street, and in later censuses they have granddaughter Hannah (b 1881) living with them.
I think John and Letitia had only been married a year and his prev wife was called Martha.
kiterunner
23-04-20, 08:43
Here is the image of the 1899 marriage record on Ancestry:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2576/4360291_00271/5517993?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdbid%3d2576%26gsfn%3djohn%26gsln%3 dhart*y%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln_x%3d1%26cp%3d11%26msgd y%3d1899%26msgdy_x%3d1%26pcat%3d%26qh%3d195a50834b d414c86e7dfecce55dfc98%26hc%3d20%26new%3d1%26rank% 3d1%26uidh%3dvm5%26redir%3dfalse&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=d25c8c2044709f7259e4e310c1398c78
Her name was originally written as Elizabeth Barclay and then Mary was added in. She is just Elizabeth Barclay on the banns record. So I guess she was Mary Elizabeth but known as Elizabeth. She did sign her name as Mary Elizabeth.
Is this her? 1881 (Ancestry):
Mary Eliz . Barclay aged 6 b L Pool
neice of John Burton Hague and wife Mary.
Marriages Sep 1873
HAGUE John Burton Liverpool 8b 284
HALSALL Mary Liverpool 8b 284
In post #4 I wondered if Mary Elizabeth (1874) and Hannah (1881) were siblings.
I don't think they were, as there is a reg for Hannah Barkley mmn White in Toxteth Park district in Q1 1882 - William Barkley and Hannah White only married in 1880 and he was a bachelor and aged 21 (living at Arthur St), so isn't going to be Mary Elizabeth's father. That means you can forget about John Barclay and his wives Martha and Letitia and Arthur Street as that family are connected with Hannah Barclay 1881 and not directly with Mary Elizabeth.
I'm wondering about this child:
BARTLEY, MARY ELIZABETH COXHEAD
GRO Reference: 1874 S Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 137
Hannah Coxhead and William Bartley married in March 1871 in Liverpool.
It makes no sense that neither of them are obviously connected with the names Hague and Halsall though, so nothing confirmed.
kiterunner
23-04-20, 15:53
Here is the marriage of a son of James Barkley, ropemaker:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2197/48045_302022005601_1155-00224/3209641?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdbid%3d2197%26cp%3d0%26msfng%3dja* s%26msfns%3db%253fr%253fl%253fy%26msfng_x%3d1%26ms fns_x%3d1%26hc%3d20%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26uidh%3d vm5%26redir%3dfalse%26msT%3d1&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=cef8ab8916f72cd34e0b0e5487c881b8
20 Sep 1869 St Peter, Liverpool, Edward Barkley, full age, bachelor, labourer, Watkinson St, father James Barkley, ropemaker, and Elizabeth Hanley, minor, spinster, Watkinson St, father William Hanley, carter. Witnesses Thomas North and Ellen Cornforth.
A possible brother to William. I realise this is a bit tenuous, but I haven't been able to find William on a census yet so am hoping this might help.
Thank you , for your great help it's much appreciated at this time , xx
kiterunner
23-04-20, 15:59
This is James in 1851 - though of course I don't know whether he is the same James who is William's father yet:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8860/LANHO107_2186_2186-0240?pid=12941673&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true#?_phcmd=u('https:%2F%2Fwww.ancestry.co .uk%2Fsearch%2Fcategories%2F1851uki%2F%3Fname%3Ded w*_b%3Fr%3Fl*y%26father%3Dja*s%26father_x%3D1_1%26 name_x%3D1_1%26successSource%3DSearch%26queryId%3D 9ee4c0e7d47435392672ccbf39bb7c63','successSource')&imageId=LANHO107_2186_2186-0240
Toxteth Park, Liverpool
James Bartley Head Mar 40 Ropemaker Liverpool
Mary Do Wife Mar 38 Do
Edward Do Son 8 Scholar Do.
hi i'm sorry i type the name hartley but this predictive text changes it. it's driving me nuts i may have to turn it off
kiterunner
23-04-20, 16:11
Edward's address was Watkinson Street on his marriage in 1869, and so I think this is Mary and William on the 1861 census since they are at Watkinson Street too:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8767/LANRG9_2676_2679-0429?pid=23038150&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx51433&_phstart=successSource
No 6 in 14 Ct, Watkinson St, Liverpool
Mary Barclay Lodger Widow 48 Charwoman Lancashire Liverpool
William Do Son 9 Scholar Do Do.
Not sure if it says Barclay or Bartlay; possibly it has been corrected from Bartlay to Barclay?
kiterunner
23-04-20, 16:14
hi i'm sorry i type the name hartley but this predictive text changes it. it's driving me nuts i may have to turn it off
We're looking for the Barclays, though, aren't we? They seem to be down as Bartley or Barkley on some records.
I was wondering if this could be her elizabeth Mary A , born st saviours , 1876 I checked free bmd . there are a few st saviours ,but there is one in Liverpool,. it doesn't give a mmn . though .
kiterunner
23-04-20, 16:26
St Saviour on FreeBMD will be Southwark, London / Surrey.
hi ,sorry we are it just early on , i mentioned the hartley ,sorry .
yes i thought about the surrey one but wasn't sure .
hi ,sorry we are it just early on , i mentioned the hartley ,sorry .
I don't understand what you mean??
If this is Edward:
BARKLEY, EDWARD ROBERTS
GRO Reference: 1842 D Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 20 Page 825
then this could be William:
BARKLEY, WILLIAM ROBERT ROBERTS
GRO Reference: 1851 D Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 20 Page 1071
William was said to be aged 20 in March 1871, when he and Hannah married.
I'm still bothered about the names Hague and Halsall though :o
kiterunner
23-04-20, 18:50
1891 census, John and Mary Hague are at the top of the page and halfway down the page, across the road from them, is George Hague, who was next door to them in 1881. Presumably John's brother. In 1891 George is a widower and has mother-in-law Elizabeth Coxhead, age 61, and niece Mary Coxhead, age 6, with him. So it is going to fit together somehow!
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/6598/LANRG12_2943_2946-0480?pid=22088421&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx51444&_phstart=successSource
So it is going to fit together somehow!
That's making my head hurt!
I suppose 'niece' for Mary Elizabeth Barclay in 1881 might be one of those situations where she calles her relations 'aunt' and 'uncle' when that's not the exact relationship.
kiterunner
23-04-20, 18:57
For ref, this is the 1881 census:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7572/LANRG11_3655_3659-0803?pid=8997260&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx51442&_phstart=successSource
John Burton Hague Head Mar 36 Labourer Lancashire Manchester
Mary Do Wife Mar 32 Do
Mary Eliz Barclay Niece 6 Scholar Lpool
George Hague Head Mar 27 Bricklayer Lpool
Rebecca Do Wife Mar 30 do
Mary Ann Do Daur 3 do
Martha Do Do 1 do.
kiterunner
23-04-20, 19:10
Rebecca Hague died Apr-Jun 1882 W Derby, age 31. I'm not sure yet whether she was Elizabeth Coxhead's daughter, or if George remarried and was widowed again before 1891,or if Elizabeth Coxhead was maybe his stepmother rather than wife's mother.
In 1871 Elizabeth Coxhead, George Hague's supposed Mo-in-law, is a widow with Coxhead children aged 17 and 10, but she is also the mother of Mary Halsall aged 22 who is later the wife of John Burton Hague.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7619/LANRG10_3754_3755-0520?pid=27856055&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DWEQ3788%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D7619%26gs fn%3Delizabeth%26gsln%3Dcoxhead%26gsfn_x%3D1%26gsl n_x%3D1%26cp%3D0%26gskw%3Dlancashire%26gskw_x%3D1% 26msbdy%3D1830%26msbdy_x%3D1%26msbdp%3D5%26qh%3D04 1693a1ebc5a89e52dfd31e14437c8f%26new%3D1%26rank%3D 1%26uidh%3D672%26redir%3Dfalse%26gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D35%26fh%3D0%26h%3D27856055%26recoff%3D% 26ml_rpos%3D1%26queryId%3D3277265bbc5eee53ac5b5257 3abf0888&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=3277265bbc5eee53ac5b52573abf0888&usePUB=true&_phsrc=WEQ3788&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true
So, Hannah Coxhead (who was the mother of Mary Elizabeth Barclay) and Mary Halsall, who married John B Hague, might be half sisters (both the children of Elizabeth Halsall who married Thomas Coxhead as a spinster in 1851. As yet, I have only found that Mary Halsall lived with her grandparents after her mother married, and I've not found the Coxheads on the census to see if that had a daughter called Hannah (or Ann etc).
Here we are - 1861 Hannah Coxhead aged 9 with her parents. Half sister is with the grandparents elsewhere.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8767/LANRG9_2648_2650-0375?pid=22918166&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DWEQ3803%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D8767%26gs fn%3Deli*%26gsln%3Dcoxhead%26gsfn_x%3D1%26gsln_x%3 D1%26cp%3D0%26gskw%3Dlancashire%26gskw_x%3D1%26msb dy%3D1830%26msbdy_x%3D1%26msbdp%3D5%26qh%3D0edac5e 733846d216f7bf2ea499776ee%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26u idh%3D672%26redir%3Dfalse%26gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D35%26fh%3D0%26h%3D22918166%26recoff%3D% 26ml_rpos%3D1%26queryId%3Dcbad2ed0a11f8c0ac2abf88b 8a4f4765&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=cbad2ed0a11f8c0ac2abf88b8a4f4765&usePUB=true&_phsrc=WEQ3803&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true
Hannah was 19 when she married in Mar 1871.
For ref, this is the 1881 census:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7572/LANRG11_3655_3659-0803?pid=8997260&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx51442&_phstart=successSource
John Burton Hague Head Mar 36 Labourer Lancashire Manchester
Mary Do Wife Mar 32 Do
Mary Eliz Barclay Niece 6 Scholar Lpool
George Hague Head Mar 27 Bricklayer Lpool
Rebecca Do Wife Mar 30 do
Mary Ann Do Daur 3 do
Martha Do Do 1 do.
HAGUE, MARTHA MATHERS
GRO Reference: 1880 M Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 341
George Hague m Rebecca Mather(s) in 1874 at St Peter's Liverpool. Rebecca was a spinster.
Ah, George (widower) did re-marry in 1887 to widow Elizabeth Ann Sloane, nee Coxhead. She was aged 27 and the dau of Thomas Coxhead dec'd.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2197/engl56170_283-ken-3-3_m_00087/5500402?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdbid%3d2197%26gsfn%3dreb*%26gsln%3 dsowerby%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln_x%3d1%26cp%3d11%26msg dy%3d1887%26msgdy_x%3d1%26qh%3df4ecfe0fef0b582b46d c71483ea30441%26hc%3d50%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26uid h%3d672%26redir%3dfalse&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=e21ad5b9c2ab2bffecae0e5e3a41f247#?imageId= engl56170_283-ken-3-3_m_00088
I expect this is his second wife, though she is still 27:
Deaths Jun 1890
Hague Elizabeth Ann 27 W. Derby 8b 229
Here we are - 1861 Hannah Coxhead aged 9 with her parents. Half sister is with the grandparents elsewhere.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8767/LANRG9_2648_2650-0375?pid=22918166&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DWEQ3803%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D8767%26gs fn%3Deli*%26gsln%3Dcoxhead%26gsfn_x%3D1%26gsln_x%3 D1%26cp%3D0%26gskw%3Dlancashire%26gskw_x%3D1%26msb dy%3D1830%26msbdy_x%3D1%26msbdp%3D5%26qh%3D0edac5e 733846d216f7bf2ea499776ee%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26u idh%3D672%26redir%3Dfalse%26gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D35%26fh%3D0%26h%3D22918166%26recoff%3D% 26ml_rpos%3D1%26queryId%3Dcbad2ed0a11f8c0ac2abf88b 8a4f4765&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=cbad2ed0a11f8c0ac2abf88b8a4f4765&usePUB=true&_phsrc=WEQ3803&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true
Hannah was 19 when she married in Mar 1871.
Elizabeth Ann who married George Hague in 1887 is also on that census aged 5 months.
kiterunner
23-04-20, 21:38
Okay, so the Mary Elizabeth Barclay who is with the Hagues in 1881 is definitely the daughter of William Barclay / Barkley / Bartley and Hannah nee Coxhead, and she was born in 1874, which all fits with the Mary Elizabeth who married John Hartley.
great work, as usual , could william barclay be scottish as my husbands uncle , said that one of his uncles told him that he would be allowed to were a kilt from the barclay clan . just a thought .
You have William's birth registration in post #21 his reported birthplace in post #14 and his father's reported place of birth in post #12.
Also, James Bartley (ropemaker) married Mary Roberts (spinster) at St John's Liverpool 26 Oct 1834. Both made their mark. Witnesses Patrick McEnaly (signed) and Ann Young (mark).
There's also this baptism:
St Paul's Liverpool
Born 10 Aug 1808 James son of Edward Bartley of Queen St, boat builder, and Mary his wife. bap 17 Sep 1809.
and this burial:
Low Hill Cemetery, Liverpool
1 Dec 1853 James Barkley of Bolton St aged 45
BARKLEY, JAMES 45
GRO Reference: 1853 D Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 322
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