View Full Version : John Quigley & Catherine McClannan
I am trying to get more information on my paternal gg.grandparents above. Specifically when and where in Ireland they were born.
I've tried searching in Dublin Archives - but, based on the info I have below, the staff there suggested trying to find the marriage records in England.
That's where I'm struggling, as I haven't been able to find one so far.
Name -
John Quigley & Catherine MacClannan
Date and place of birth - both Ireland, places unknown - John c.1815 Catherine c.1826
Names of parents - unknown
Date and place of baptism - unknown
Details of each of his or her marriages -
1 John Quigley & Margaret Quigley are shown in the 1841 Census living at Back Chester Street, Birkenhead. Both born Ireland.
Children listed - Patrick Headin 13, Bridget Headin 8, Catherine Headin 6, Michael Headin 4 & Mary Ann Quigley 1.
The three eldest born in Ireland - Michael & Mary Ann born Birkenhead.
Margaret's previously married name was Headin (Heden) - the 4 named children being hers by another marriage, plus her child Mary Ann with John Quigley.
Her maiden name is shown on Mary Ann's BCert. 18 Oct 1939.
2 John Quigley & Catherine Quigley (McClannan) - both born Ireland.
In 1851 Census living at 5, No.8 Court, New Bird Street, Liverpool
Children - Mary Ann 11, Margaret 2, Arthur 1 - all born Birkenhead
Occupation(s) - Shoemaker / Cordwainer
Addresses where they lived - and please list which censuses you have or haven't found him/her on.
1839 Back Chester St., Birkenhead - BC of Mary Ann Quigley 18 Oct 1839
1841 Census - Back Chester St., Birkenhead (as above)
1851 Census - 5, No.8 Court, New Bird St., Liverpool (as above)
1844 - 13 Jan 1844 Back Chester St., Birkenhead - DC of first wife Margaret Quigley Qtr. Mar Vol 19 Page 240
1849 - 4 May 1849 Back Chester St., Birkenhead - BC of son Arthur Quigley Qtr. Apr Vol 19 Page 397
I haven't found them in 1861,1871 or 1881 Censuses
Date, place and cause of death -
13 Jan1844 Margaret Quigley (Headin) - Back Chester St., Birkenhead. Cause - Childbed (assuming in childbirth) aged 39
25 Dec 1873 John Quigley aged 58 - 352 Price Street, Birkenhead - phthisis DC Qtr Dec Vol 8a Page 292
Date and place of burial / cremation.
Margaret Quigley (Headin) - unknown
Catherine Quigley (McClannan) - unknown
John Quigley - 29 Dec 1873 Birkenhead Flaybrick Cemetery - public grave
Details of will / administration of their estate - unknown
Memorial inscription - none
ElizabethHerts
25-11-19, 14:00
There is another child, Bridget, found in the Catholic Registers on Ancestry:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2180/engl56170_282-hig-1-9_m_00108?pid=999542&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DBOW10773%26_phstart%3DsuccessSour ce%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D2180%26g sln%3DQuigley%26cp%3D0%26msfng%3Djohn%26new%3D1%26 rank%3D1%26uidh%3D9p3%26redir%3Dfalse%26msT%3D1%26 gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D34%26fh%3D2%26h%3D999542%26recoff%3D%26 ml_rpos%3D3&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=BOW10773&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.53345451.2050043844.1573910927-1874943922.1559313263
Name: Bridget Quigley
Age: 0
Birth Date: 5 Jan 1858
Baptism Date: 14 Nov 1858
Baptism Place: St Mary's, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
GRO reference:
QUIGLEY, BRIDGET MCCLANNEN
GRO Reference: 1858 M Quarter in WIRRAL Volume 08A
ElizabethHerts
25-11-19, 14:06
Another child:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2180/engl56170_282-pat-1-4_m_00073?pid=517887&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D2180%26h%3D517887%26tid %3D165148613%26pid%3D152146427890%26hid%3D10149198 49788%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DBOW10803%26_phsta rt%3Ddefault%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26currentPageIsStar t%3D&treeid=165148613&personid=152146427890&hintid=1014919849788&usePUB=true&_phsrc=BOW10803&_phstart=default&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.21470136.2050043844.1573910927-1874943922.1559313263
Name: Catharine Quigley
Age: 0
Birth Date: 11 Jun 1851
Baptism Date: 29 Jun 1851
Baptism Place: St Patrick, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Search Photos: Search for 'Liverpool' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Father: John Quigley
Mother: Catharine Mclenon
GRO referenence:
QUIGLEY, CATHERINE MCLENNAN
GRO Reference: 1851 J Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 20 Page 554
ElizabethHerts
25-11-19, 14:16
QUIGLEY, ARTHUR MCCLANNAN
GRO Reference: 1849 J Quarter in WIRRAL UNION Volume 19 Page 397
Twins?
QUIGLEY, JOHN MCLENNON
GRO Reference: 1855 J Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 158
QUIGLEY, MARGARET MCLENNON
GRO Reference: 1855 J Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 159
ElizabethHerts
25-11-19, 14:44
Baptisms for Margaret and John:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2180/engl56170_282-svp-1-1_m_00079/1446948?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/165148613/person/152146427853/facts
John's godmother was Esther Mclanagan. A sister or other relative of Catherine, his mother?
Margaret's godmother was Maria (Mary) Quigley. I wonder what relative she was?
That's great Elizabeth, thank you !
The Catherine certainly looks promising - though is it 1851 or 1857 ?
The Bridget one also - though I notice the MMN is given as McClannighan.....only slightly different (especially as the g is silent in Ireland when spoken). So maybe the family lived in Liverpool for quite a while before moving back to Birkenhead later before John died.
ElizabethHerts
25-11-19, 15:03
Here they are in 1871:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBC%2F1871%2F3748%2F0292&parentid=GBC%2F1871%2F0018709068
350 Price Street, Birkenhead, Cheshire, England
John 60 Boot Maker born Ireland
Catherine 47 no place of birth given but it might be that she was also born in Ireland
Arthur Son 19 Apprentice Boiler Maker born Birkenhead
Catherine Daughter 16 Domestic Servant born Liverpool
John Son 14 Scholar Liverpool
Bridget Daughter 13 Birkenhead
ElizabethHerts
25-11-19, 15:11
They are transcribed as Tingley for 1871 on Ancestry:
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=7619&h=15823582&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=BOW10817&_phstart=successSource
Wow, that's amazing Elizabeth - twins, I never thought of that !
The only thing I'm a bit doubtfull about is that John & Catherine already had a daughter called Margaret, born c.1848.....so, could she have died ?
kiterunner
25-11-19, 15:37
Wow, that's amazing Elizabeth - twins, I never thought of that !
The only thing I'm a bit doubtfull about is that John & Catherine already had a daughter called Margaret, born c.1848.....so, could she have died ?
There is a Margaret Quigley death Jan-Mar 1852 Liverpool age 5.
ElizabethHerts
25-11-19, 15:37
Wow, that's amazing Elizabeth - twins, I never thought of that !
The only thing I'm a bit doubtfull about is that John & Catherine already had a daughter called Margaret, born c.1848.....so, could she have died ?
Most likely, I'll search in a bit.
Bridget seems to have married James Woods in 1881. Here she is with him in 1881:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7572/CHSRG11_3580_3583-0537?pid=1708566&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx22919&_phstart=successSource
Note that with them is Catherine Quigley, relative, aged 27, so probably the sister. They are still in Price Street.
ElizabethHerts
25-11-19, 15:41
The very large Woods family moved to Northumberland.
Here is the 1911 Census which shows them quite clearly after Bridget was widowed:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2352/rg14_30636_0399_03/35611672?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/77843581/person/130084820423/facts
ElizabethHerts
25-11-19, 15:48
Snap, Kate, just found her:
QUIGLEY, MARGARET 5
GRO Reference: 1852 M Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 136
I haven't found a burial on Ancestry, though.
Thank you both - I'll have to study these records and digest a bit now ! Maybe if I order some of the certificates for these records you have given me, they may give more info.
ElizabethHerts
25-11-19, 15:51
Are you descended from Arthur?
Bridget Woods named one of her sons Arthur.
So the first Margaret dies aged 5, then they name one of the twins Margaret a few years later - but she isn't shown on the 1871 Census in Birkenhead ? Could she have died too ? Or maybe she was in service elsewhere ?
Sorry, bit late on the uptake there - yes, Arthur was my g.grandfather. But, he was born in Birkenhead on 4 May 1849 from his BC.
ElizabethHerts
25-11-19, 16:03
So the first Margaret dies aged 5, then they name one of the twins Margaret a few years later - but she isn't shown on the 1871 Census in Birkenhead ? Could she have died too ? Or maybe she was in service elsewhere ?
Perhaps this one:
QUIGLEY, MARGARET 2
GRO Reference: 1857 S Quarter in WIRRAL Volume 08A Page 270
Wirral Registration District covers Birkenhead.
kiterunner
25-11-19, 16:04
So the first Margaret dies aged 5, then they name one of the twins Margaret a few years later - but she isn't shown on the 1871 Census in Birkenhead ? Could she have died too ? Or maybe she was in service elsewhere ?
There is a Margaret Quigley death Jul-Sep 1857 Wirral district (which included Birkenhead), age 2.
Edit - snap, Elizabeth!
OMG, no ! Two daughters both named Margaret dying as infants - how awful for them (if it is the same ones)
ElizabethHerts
25-11-19, 16:13
A possible burial for Catherine Quigley (mother) in 1883. The age is about right:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2183/engl56170_282-for-1-4_m_00408?pid=1098709&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D2183%26h%3D1098709%26ti d%3D165148613%26pid%3D152146427719%26usePUB%3Dtrue %26_phsrc%3DBOW10891%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=165148613&personid=152146427719&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=BOW10891&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.134526834.2050043844.1573910927-1874943922.1559313263
Name: Catherine Quigley
Death Age: 60
Birth Date: abt 1823
Death Date: 1883
Burial Date: 9 Dec 1883
Burial Place: Ford Cemetery, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
ElizabethHerts
25-11-19, 16:25
I can't find a death registration for her, though!
kiterunner
25-11-19, 16:46
I can't find a death registration for her, though!
Catharine Quigley, Oct-Dec 1883 Liverpool age 60 vol 8b p 71.
I usually search on FreeBMD and just put the first name as Cath to allow for either spelling.
ElizabethHerts
25-11-19, 16:49
Great, thanks Kate. I tried GRO and then FreeBMD, but forgot to put a wild card for Catherine.
That's a good possibility for the death of Catherine Quigley - I may order the certificate anyway, based on that. Thank you ever so much both. :)
ElizabethHerts
25-11-19, 17:12
Murphy, please let us know how you get on. It'd be interesting to know, especially the informant's name.
Yes of course, I will. It will be interesting (if it is my Catherine) as her husband John had died in 1873 in Birkenhead, when the informant was his son Arthur. So to die and be buried in Liverpool in 1883 seems a bit odd - unless one of the other children were living there at the time of John's death, which is a possibility.
I just noticed that there is something written at right-angles to the entries for John and Margaret Quigley in the Liverpool Catholic Baptism Registers.....but I can't quite read what it says ! I think it could be Latin for twins ?!! It appears to say 'gemilli' - and the Latin for twins is 'geminos' !
ElizabethHerts
25-11-19, 18:53
I just noticed that there is something written at right-angles to the entries for John and Margaret Quigley in the Liverpool Catholic Baptism Registers.....but I can't quite read what it says ! I think it could be Latin for twins ?!! It appears to say 'gemilli' - and the Latin for twins is 'geminos' !
Well spotted, Murphy. Yes, that confirms they were twins. I wonder what happened to John. I got results for a John Quigley born 1855 in the USA but as I don't have world-wide subscriptions I can follow it up.
ElizabethHerts
25-11-19, 18:57
It's best to order through the GRO
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp
and to save costs you can buy a PDF for a lower price than a certificate. Certificates are £11, PDFs are £7.
Thanks Elizabeth. I may take a stab at ordering the BC's & DC's of the children too....but, may have to spread over a few weeks due to the costs !
When you see the conditions the family were living in (attached photo dated a bit later), it doesn't surprise me that some of the children died in infancy - very sad.
ElizabethHerts
25-11-19, 19:52
Yes, horrendous conditions for many families.
By the way, no sign of a marriage between John Quigley and Catherine. I wonder if they married at all.
ElizabethHerts
26-11-19, 07:55
Possible death and burial for Mary Ann Quigley born 1839 (age slightly out, but they weren't always very sure of their ages, especially if someone else was reporting it).
QUIGLEY, MARY ANN 20
GRO Reference: 1858 J Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 116
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2198/engl56170_283-wal-6-1-1_00055/3059793?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/165148613/person/152146606678/facts
4th line down
Catharine Quigley, Oct-Dec 1883 Liverpool age 60 vol 8b p 71.
There is a different Catherine Quigley on the 1881 Census who also could fit the above death reg - she is wife of James and aged 56 in 1881. They are living at Plumber St, St Pauls, Liverpool. At the moment I've not found her still living in 1891 to eliminate her.
ElizabethHerts
26-11-19, 08:59
Yes, they are all tentative, Merry. The wife of James kept coming up when I was searching. The name Quigley is frequently mistranscribed.
I searched the 1881 census for Catherine (variable spellings) *gl*y, born between 1820 and 1830 in Ireland and living in Cheshire or Lancashire, but only turned up people who are not the correct Catherine. She could be more badly mis-transcribed, remarried, already dead, missing from the census or moved away from Liverpool/Birkenhead (or more than one of these!)!
I can't see a sensible remarriage or a sensible death between 1871 and 1881, so there is still a good chance the 1883 death is the right one though I haven't found a separate likely death for the other Catherine Quigley. It's a pity there is no address given at that 1883 burial!
Who registered John Quigley's death in 1873?
I have occasionally seen women who are only pretending to be married registered for death in their previous surname, but those have been few and far between, especially if they have been living with their partner for a long time. (not really saying this couple were definitely not married, just that we haven't found a record)
ElizabethHerts
26-11-19, 09:59
Catherine's (maiden) name has so many variations that it is very difficult to search.
I have found at least 5 different spellings:
Mc Clannighan
Mc Lanagan
MCLENNON
MCLENNAN
McLenon
MCCLANNAN
ElizabethHerts
26-11-19, 12:55
mc*l*n*n? :D
I should have remembered - sometimes it starts Mac !
The search engines often can't cope and the little wheel goes round and then times out.
Thank you both for your efforts.
Merry - I don't think the Catherine wife of James Quigley is likely, unless you are saying she re-married another Quigley, and had another child Ann by him ?!! I have placed an order for the DC for the Catherine Quigley that Elizabeth identified - so may be able to confirm whether it's the correct one when I receive it.
However, I have also discovered another burial for Catherine Quigley on 28 Aug 1883 in the same cemetery Ford, Liverpool - just a few dozen pages before the other Catherine page 376 ! No age is given or address - it says in the Remarks, 'Coroners Order'. I don't know what that means ?
Elizabeth - the Mary Ann death details you have given could be a likely possibility, as in the Remarks column it says 'South Hospital'......presumably where she died. This hospital was at the end of the street where the family lived in 1851 - so if they were still there in 1858, then it's very close. But, it also says age 'not given' (?) so can't be sure ? Although, she is not shown in the 1871 Census, so would fit (mind you, if she was alive in 1871 she would have been 32 and mostly likely living with her own family if she had one ?).
The other thing about this record is that it shows 5 others with the same grave number - could this have been a paupers public grave ?
Merry - I don't think the Catherine wife of James Quigley is likely, unless you are saying she re-married another Quigley, and had another child Ann by him ?!! I have placed an order for the DC for the Catherine Quigley that Elizabeth identified - so may be able to confirm whether it's the correct one when I receive it.
That's not what I meant - I said 'there is a different Catherine Quigley....'! There is the death registration in Liverpool in 1883. We don't know yet if it belongs to your Catherine (widow), or this other Catherine Quigley (wife of James and nee Burns) who is in Liverpool in 1881. We haven't found your Catherine in 1881 as yet.
That's not what I meant - I said 'there is a different Catherine Quigley....'! There is the death registration in Liverpool in 1883. We don't know yet if it belongs to your Catherine (widow), or this other Catherine Quigley (wife of James and nee Burns) who is in Liverpool in 1881. We haven't found your Catherine in 1881 as yet.
Sorry Merry - I misunderstood. At least if I get the DC from those details, there will hopefully be more info.
Btw, the John Quigley death in 1873 was informed by Arthur Quigley (presumably his son)
Looking at that birth record for Bridget Quigley on the first page - the baptism is in Liverpool but the birth record is in Wirral/Birkenhead. It looks like she was born on 5 Jan 1858, but not baptised until 14 Nov 1858.
She is also shown in the 1871 Census living and being born in Birkenhead, aged 13. So, the family was in Liverpool when John (and Margaret, as twins) was born in 1855 - then moved back to Birkenhead some time after this where Bridget was then born ? But, then they moved back to Liverpool the same year 1858 before she was baptised - or did they just have her baptised where they had lived previously ?
Getting a bit confused and wondering if it's the correct Bridget ? :confused:
I think people often moved much more frequently than we do today, especially if they lived in a large town of city.
There's no other birth registration for a different Bridget Quigley in Q1 1858. Also, no sign of another Quigley family with parents John and Catherine.
Thanks Merry - I have ordered Bridget Quigley's BC also, so that may tell us more.
I've received the pdf's of certificates I ordered. The DC of Catherine Quigley shows her as 'widow of John Quigley, labourer' - so the name of her husband is right, but the occupation of labourer doesn't tally with his earlier profession of 'shoemaker' (cordwainer).
The informant is given as Thomas Quigley, son at the same address - which is different to the one the family had in Liverpool before the daughter Bridget was born.
From Bridget's BC (pdf), she was born 23 Jan 1858 at 15 William St., Birkenhead - father John Quigley, shoemaker and mother Catherine Quigley, formerly McClannen.
From daughter Catherine's BC (pdf) she was born 13 June 1851 at 8 Court, New Bird Street, Liverpool (same as at census) - father John Quigley, cordwainer and mother Catherine Quigley, formerly McLennan both of the same address.
So, I think daughters Catherine and Bridget are correct - but, not sure about the death of this Catherine in 1883 with there being a son Thomas, as there is no Thomas shown on the 1871 census - the youngest child being Bridget aged 13.....just 2 years before her father John's death in 1873 ?
What is the address on the 1883 death cert for Catherine?
Hi Merry - sorry for the late response. The address is 5 Court, Fontenoy Street, Liverpool - which was close to the city centre, but the north side whereas in the 1850's they were in the south of the city.
There is no age given for the son Thomas, but I suppose it's possible he was born after Bridget, but surely he'd show up on the 1871 census ?
I've looked at 5 Court Fontenoy St in 1881, but no names that help at that date. On that census 5 Court is listed between numbers 61 and 63 Fontenoy St, but I'm struggling to find it (anywhere!) in 1891.
I don't think you can say the 1883 death cert is for your Catherine whilst you don't have a son called Thomas for her. Her late husband's occupation probably isn't an issue, but Thomas is!
Yes, I'm not sure now that the 1883 DC is correct for the Catherine Quigley I'm after. I have found another death in Sept quarter 1887 in Wirral - but the age is given as 69, which would make her several years older than what was given in previous records eg. 1871 census. But, I can't seem to find a Catherine Quigley in 1881 census in Birkenhead or Wirral. Have found one in West Derby, Liverpool, born in 1818 in Ireland - she is the Head and living with her daughter and two grandchildren. But, not sure this fits.
kiterunner
08-12-19, 18:17
There are public trees on Ancestry which shows the Catherine who died in 1887 as being nee Morgan, born in Cheshire. This is the link to the 1881 census entry for that Catherine:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7572/CHSRG11_3567_3571-0527/1641694?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/6029340/person/6128453598/facts
They also give burial details - 11 Aug 1887 at Neston, which is where she is on the 1881 census.
So not your Catherine.
There are public trees on Ancestry which shows the Catherine who died in 1887 as being nee Morgan, born in Cheshire. This is the link to the 1881 census entry for that Catherine:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7572/CHSRG11_3567_3571-0527/1641694?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/6029340/person/6128453598/facts
They also give burial details - 11 Aug 1887 at Neston, which is where she is on the 1881 census.
So not your Catherine.
Ah, ok thank you - at least that confirms that line of enquiry.
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