parents of richard hemming

[lyndenh55]

Help please looking for parents of Richard Hemming1787-1867
Shown on baptism as
Richard and mary
Baptism 14th may 1787 ware hertfordshire
Married susanna hall 11th july 1808 harborne st peter England]
Son james john hemming born 1809 warwickshire
) richard later married to sarah kendall/sarah woodley
Addresses ware Hertfordshire( 1787)Warwickshire{1808} 170 upper marsh lambeth,occupation tailor(1851census
Date and place of burial.1867 lambeth
thanks regards lynden

[kiterunner]

On the 1861 census, Richard and Sarah have a son John W Hemming age 6, born Lambeth, and the birth registration in 1855 is John Woodley Hemming, MMN Woodley. So Richard's last marriage is to Sarah Woodley, also in 1855 in Lambeth.

Edit - sorry, I see he also had an earlier marriage to a Sarah Kendall!

[Merry]

richard later married to sarah kendall/sarah woodley

I'm not sure where the name kendall fits in, but the children of Richard and Sarah have mmn Woodley, and there's a marriage for Richard Hemming to Sarah Woodley in Lambeth District in 1855. I'm looking for a post 1837 marriage cert to pick up more information on Richard's father.

[Merry]

lol snap Kate, I left my typing to turn on the oven and you snuck in!

EDIT - Kate's edited her post #2 now!

[Merry]

Ah, in 1851 Richard is living with widow Sarah Woodley, so she may have used the wrong name when registering her children, or she may not be a widow in 1851!

EDIT - Ignore this, I didn't realise Kendall/Woodley meant two marriages.

[Merry]

There's an unmarried Harriet Kendall, 18, living with them. Sarah's sister?

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8860/SRYHO107_1571_1571-0467/866359?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return

EDIT - forget my comment above

[kiterunner]

I have edited my post - looking at a tree on ancestry, Richard married a Sarah Kendall in Birmingham in 1838 and then a Sarah Woodley in Lambeth in 1855. I was just trying to get a look at either marriage record to get Richard sr's occupation! Finally found where one of them is added to the ancestry tree - as a photo for Sarah Woodley - and Richard's father is down as Richard Hemming, deceased, tailor.

[kiterunner]

Here is the baptism (in Southwark) of Richard jr's sister Maria born 10 Jun 1789 at Ware:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2972/40612_B0151464-00039/625581?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return

[lyndenh55]

they seem to be flitting about between hertfordshire warwickshire and lambeth they may have been circus people as i have been told and one child was in the proffesion of dance and one or two were equestrians in the 1851 census edgebaston i cant seem to find the marriage for richard senior and mary thanks

[kiterunner]

There are a few possible marriages but not in Hertfordshire so far. There is a Warwickshire one:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2445/4290811_00203?pid=4302902&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx21910&_phstart=successSource

28 Feb 1779 at Wolford, Richard Hemmings of Idlicot, bachelor, and Mary Saul of Wolford, spinster. But they both "make their mark" which might not fit with being a tailor.

[kiterunner]

"The Gentleman's Magazine" 1789 has an entry in "List of Bankrupts": Richard Hemming, Ware, shop-keeper. There may be some info in the London Gazette too; I will just have a look.

[kiterunner]

This is the marriage to Sarah Kendall:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/4994/40458_316603-00160?pid=3913501&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true#?_phcmd=u%28'https:%2F%2Fwww.ancestry. co.uk%2Fsearch%2F%3Fname%3Drichard_hemming%26spous e%3Dsarah_kendall%26successSource%3DSearch%26query Id%3DrBFdROns2kTyUZgKaa%2Fxsw%3D%3D','successSourc e'%29&imageId=40458_316603-00160

19 Feb 1838 Edgbaston. In those early days of civil registration, some vicars didn't think the fathers' details needed to be filled in unless the bride or groom was under-age. But I would think the witness Richard Hemming who has signed his name is Richard's father, meaning that Warwickshire marriage in 1779 is unlikely to be the right one.

[kiterunner]

they seem to be flitting about between hertfordshire warwickshire and lambeth they may have been circus people as i have been told and one child was in the proffesion of dance and one or two were equestrians in the 1851 census edgebaston i cant seem to find the marriage for richard senior and mary thanks

The 1851 census is at Lambeth, not Edgbaston (Merry posted the link above). Harry (son of James) is a "professor of dancing" at the age of 19 and then all the rest of James's children are down as "Equestrian", even the 1-year-old! But James is a tailor.

[kiterunner]

There seem to be quite a few London Gazette entries, this being an example:

19 Feb 1788 - whereas a Commission of Bankrupt is awarded and issued forth against Richard Hemming, late of Ware, in the County of Herts, Shop-keeper, Dealer and Chapman...All Persons indebted to the said Bankrupt, or that have any of his Effects... give Notice to Mr Hemming, New Basinghall-street, London.

(I don't know whether the Mr Hemming of New Basinghall Street, London, was any relation to Richard but thought I should copy that bit given the surname. In some of the entries the name there is a lawyer or similar.)

[kiterunner]

And is this one Richard jr?

5 Mar 1833
The Court for Relief of Insolvent Debtors
Richard Hemming, formerly of Severn-street, Birmingham, Warwickshire, Tailor and Clothes Cleaner, and late of Suffolk-Street, Birmingham aforesaid, Tailor and Clothes Cleaner, and carrying on business (by his wife) as Pastry Cook.

[Merry]

Changing the subject somewhat....

Sarah Woodley was married before, to John Woodley!

Name: Sarah Woodley
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 3 May 1843
Marriage Place: Saint Michaels, Bishops Stortford, Hertford, England
Spouse: John Woodley

So, their child, Rebecca (see the 1851 census link in a prev post) was legitimate:

WOODLEY, REBECCA
mmn WOODLEY
GRO Reference: 1844 J Quarter in OF THE BISHOPS-STORTFORD UNION Volume 06 Page 482

….and the use of mmn Woodley for her children with Richard Hemmings was correct.

[Merry]

This is the marriage to Sarah Kendall:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/4994/40458_316603-00160?pid=3913501&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true#?_phcmd=u%28'https:%2F%2Fwww.ancestry. co.uk%2Fsearch%2F%3Fname%3Drichard_hemming%26spous e%3Dsarah_kendall%26successSource%3DSearch%26query Id%3DrBFdROns2kTyUZgKaa%2Fxsw%3D%3D','successSourc e'%29&imageId=40458_316603-00160

19 Feb 1838 Edgbaston. In those early days of civil registration, some vicars didn't think the fathers' details needed to be filled in unless the bride or groom was under-age. But I would think the witness Richard Hemming who has signed his name is Richard's father, meaning that Warwickshire marriage in 1779 is unlikely to be the right one.

I tried to find the death of Richard senr in the Birmingham area after Feb 1838. The only one I could see was barely old enough (apparently born about 1770) - died in 1842 aged 72 and is on the 1841 census at 68 great Russell St Birmingham aged 70. Sensibly, he probably isn't old enough. His occupation is button maker.

[Merry]

Did Richard bap 1787 perhaps have a son named Richard who might have been the witness at his father's second marriage?

EDIT: I pulled these details from an ancestry tree... could this Richard be the witness:

Birth of Son Richard Hemming(1812–1849)
26 Apr 1812 • Birmingham England

[Merry]

And is this one Richard jr?

5 Mar 1833
The Court for Relief of Insolvent Debtors
Richard Hemming, formerly of Severn-street, Birmingham, Warwickshire, Tailor and Clothes Cleaner, and late of Suffolk-Street, Birmingham aforesaid, Tailor and Clothes Cleaner, and carrying on business (by his wife) as Pastry Cook.

Yes, because some of Richard jr's children were baptised from Suffolk St Birmingham.

[kiterunner]

Did Richard bap 1787 perhaps have a son named Richard who might have been the witness at his father's second marriage?

EDIT: I pulled these details from an ancestry tree... could this Richard be the witness:

Birth of Son Richard Hemming(1812–1849)
26 Apr 1812 • Birmingham England

Well done. I was wondering whether it could be a son after I had gone away from the computer!

[kiterunner]

There is a couple Richard and Mary Hemming having children baptised at Sherbourne, Warwickshire, with a gap between Edith 7 Aug 1785 and Anne 21 Mar 1790 which Richard jr and Maria would fit into - but only just, since Maria was born 10 Jun 1789. Also, it seems unlikely that they would have children baptised C of E in Warwickshire, then non-conformist in Hertfordshire, then back to C of E in Warwickshire. So most likely a different couple.

[Merry]

This is a transcrpition from FMP:

First name(s) Egbstn Pat Richardus
Last name Hemin
Year 1784
Event date 08 Apr 1784
Spouse's first name(s) Maria
Spouse's last name Loxly
Parish Birmingham St Peter

The image attached is for 1717, so that's no help.

Looking very quickly on Ancestry I can't see anything for this marriage, but I thought St Peter's Birmingham was included in their Warwickshire images, so perhaps the above is a transcription error? I'm off to bed now!

[Merry]

Now I've had more time to look at the record in the previous post, I can see those names do appear on the 1717 page attached to the transcription, but the attached page is a list of baptisms (Phillimore's), not marriages! It's not St Peter's Birmingham either, as far as I can see, so goodness knows what's gone wrong there!

The parish of St Peter's Birmingham doesn't seem to have been created until 1847, so I think that transcription can be completely disregarded.

[lyndenh55]

thank you very much looks quite possible

[kiterunner]

thank you very much looks quite possible

Sorry, but what does?