An old family postcard

[wendythomas]

I have an old postcard dated 1926 which was sent to my great grandmother's sister Mary Williams,it's from her cousins-Dewi,Ben and Mari,their address was Haulfryn,Gwaelod y Garth,W.Cardiff,can anyone find them on the 1939 register for me please their surname could be Williams.

[Merry]

There are nine houses at Gwaelod G Garth, Cardiff, all named but none of them Haulfryn.

One couple at Gwaelod G Garth are called Williams, but not your forenames. Looking elsewhere for families including a Dewi and a Mari, there are a handful, but none in South Wales and none called Williams. I suppose Dewi might not be his official name, so that doesn't help either!

Do you think Dewi, Ben and Mari are siblings? If they were born since 1919 they may be hidden. Do you know anything else - about their parents or how they might be connected to Mary Williams.

[wendythomas]

I have no information about these people,it says on the postcard from your cousins,Dewi,Ben and Mari,it looks like they are siblings.

[wendythomas]

What are the names of the Williams couple you have found at Gwaelod y Garth?

[Merry]

Ok, thanks.

Obviously they could be any sort of cousins, but looking at first cousins - as you said first obvious surname is Williams. What about Mary Williams' mmn? Also either Williams or that mmn may be the mnn of the three children, so could realy be any name!

[Merry]

I'll go back to that in a minute. I've just found some erolls for 1925 for GwaelodyGarth (all one word!)

[Merry]

Oh no, that Gwaelodygarth is in Merthyr Tydfil!

Back to 1939...


Malsgwumn Gwaelod G Garth

Henry
Williams
26 Feb 1876
Male
Permanent Way Labourer
Married

Elizabeth
Williams
10 Jan 1898
Female
Unpaid Domestic Duties
Married

No one else in their house.

[kiterunner]

If you can give us some information about Mary Williams we might be able to figure out who her cousins were that way. For instance, when and where was she born, who were her parents, etc.

[kiterunner]

This looks to be Haulfryn, Gwaelod y Garth, but the occupants are called Brychan Rees and Ellen E Rees:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/61596/tna_r39_7386_7386a_008/41825364?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdbid%3d61596%26cp%3d0%26gskw%3dGwa elod%2bG%2bGarth%26gskw_x%3d1%26hc%3d20%26new%3d1% 26rank%3d1%26uidh%3dvm5%26redir%3dfalse%26msT%3d1&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults#?imageId=tna_r39_738 6_7386a_011

[kiterunner]

Brychan Rees married Esther E Fletcher in 1935, so it looks likely that Mary's cousins moved out and the Reeses moved in before 1939.

[wendythomas]

I will give you details of Mary later on.

[Anstey Nomad]

Dewi isn't a pet name for Dafydd, is it?

[kiterunner]

Any of their names could be short for something, really, but all can be names in their own right too.

[wendythomas]

I have Mary with her family in the 1881 census at Galltraeth,Bryncroes,Caernarvonshire.
Robert Williams 40 his wife Jane Williams 40
David Williams 15, Jane Williams13, Rowland Williams 8, Catherine 5 (my great grandmother), Mary3, Robert(10 months)

[kiterunner]

Thanks. It looks as though Jane's maiden name was Williams. Do you know whether that's right?

[kiterunner]

Vaguely possible family on the 1911 census?
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2353/rg14_32058_0393_06/2002669?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdbid%3d2353%26gsfn%3dben*%26gsfn_x %3d1%26gsln_x%3d1%26cp%3d0%26gskw%3dpentyrch%26gsk w_x%3d1%26hc%3d20%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26uidh%3dvm 5%26redir%3dfalse&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

Wynnstay House, Garth Hill, Taffs Well, Pentyrch, Glamorgan
Benjamin Rees Head 52 Wid 5 children born alive, Coal Salesman, Llanboidy Carmarthenshire
Katherine Rebecca Rees Dau 22 Single Cardiff
David Edgar Rees Son 19 Auctioneer's Pupil Llanelly Carmarthenshire
Mary Louise Rees Dau 17 Kilbarchan NB
Benjamin Alan Rees Son 16 Clerk Johnstone NB.

David, Mary, and Benjamin jr could conceivably be Dewi, Mari and Ben. Will have to trace them back to see if there is a Williams connection.

[Merry]

Oooh, I've seen the name Benjamin Rees somewhere already...…

I will look again.

[Merry]

Hmmm, probably just a coincidence...

1939 Register


Cigarth Gwaelod y Garth, Cardiff

Benjamin Rees 20 Oct 1882 Male ? Officers Married
Mary E Rees 22 Oct 1882 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married

[kiterunner]

Could be a red herring, but just to keep track, here is "my" Benjamin Rees in 1891:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/6897/GLARG12_4391_4393-0147?pid=1228750&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx20320&_phstart=successSource

The eldest son is Reginald F W Rees born 1887 Cardiff but it doesn't look as though he is Brychan Rees's father. And I think David Edgar Rees was married by 1926. Also the mother's maiden name for the Rees children is Watkins, so it doesn't look likely that these are Mary's cousins. Back to the drawing board...

[kiterunner]

Maybe the 1921 census will help with this when it comes out in 2022!

[kiterunner]

Hold on, though - 1923 Kelly's Directory of South Wales:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/3145/GB0753-00769/23051593?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdbid%3d3145%26cp%3d0%26gskw%3dhaul fryn%26gskw_x%3d1%26hc%3d20%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%2 6uidh%3dvm5%26redir%3dfalse%26msT%3d1&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
Rees Benjamin, Haulfryn, Gwaelod-y-Garth.

He may or may not be the same Benjamin Rees who is listed in the Commercial section as assistant overseer, of Gwaelod-y-Garth.

[Merry]

Oh, I didn't see that! How many Benjamin's are there though??!

[wendythomas]

Yes Jane's maiden name was Williams.

[Merry]

Hmmm, probably just a coincidence...

1939 Register


Cigarth Gwaelod y Garth, Cardiff

Benjamin Rees 20 Oct 1882 Male ? Officers Married
Mary E Rees 22 Oct 1882 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married

Kate, I'm wondering if this Benjamin (above) is the same one you found in the directory?

I found this tree on Ancestry:

Benjamin Rees born 20 Oct 1882 • Ystrad, Glamorganshire, Wales
first marriage 1915 Cardiff to Elvira Morgan (1888-1923)

Son born: David Thomas (Dewi) Rees(1916–1997)
5 Feb 1916 • Gwaelod-y-garth, Glamorgan, Wales

So, Benjamin could have married Mary E (who he is with in 1939) soon after 1923 and so he, his new wife and his son are on the postcard?

According to the tree, Benjamin's parents are Thomas Rees and Ann Davies.
Elvira's parents are not on the tree.
Benjamin's second marriage is not on the tree.

[Merry]

The most likely second marriage for Benjamin in this one (if he remarried before the postcard was written and is with the same wife in 1939)

Marriages Dec 1924 (>99%)

Jones Mary E Rees Cardiff 11a 899
Rees Benjamin Jones Cardiff 11a 899

Jones is not what we want to hear!

The tree says Elvira Morgan was born in 1888 in Bridgend.

If that is correct, this is her, so still no Williams:

MORGAN, ELVIRA
LEWIS
GRO Reference: 1888 J Quarter in BRIDGEND Volume 11A Page 650

[Merry]

I would imagine it's most likely Jones isn't Mary E's maiden surname (though of course it might be!) as she would have been aged 35/6 when she married Benjamin Rees in 1924.

[Merry]

The house name on the 1939 register is transcribed as Cigarth, but I think it should say Tregarth as that's what's on Benjamin's probate entry, date of death 25 March 1956. I had hoped I might pick up his wife's second forename from his probate, but probate was granted to the National Provincial Bank.

[Merry]

I missed it before, but this marriage:

Marriages Dec 1924 (>99%)

Jones Mary E Rees Cardiff 11a 899
Rees Benjamin Jones Cardiff 11a 899

is on the tree I was looking at. It has the date 29 Nov 1924, so have they seen the certificate? They have Mary being born in 1884, no place, but her birth date on the 1939 register is 22 Oct 1882.

Of course there are a lot of Mary E Jones' registered for birth in Q4 1882!

It would be good if this was the one though...

JONES, MARY ELIZABETH
WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1882 D Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 440

[Merry]

Wendy, do you have a list of female siblings (in particular) for the parents of Mary Williams, Robert Williams and his wife Jane Williams? Do you know who any of them married?

[kiterunner]

The ancestry tree has Mary's middle name as Ellen.

[wendythomas]

Merry I will have a look for you tomorrow

[Merry]

The ancestry tree has Mary's middle name as Ellen.

Hmmm, I looked at births 1883 +/- 2 years and got 210 matches, 16 with mmn Williams. Of the 16, 5 were registered in Q4 (in case her birthday was October).