Civil Marriages

[Kit]

Between OH snoring and me being quite ill I could not lie down without coughing last night and so decided to put my time to good use.

About 2am I had a look at an ancestry hint and found a likely marriage for my 4greats uncle in 1855. He, however, seems to share my painful 3g grandmothers annoyingness and he had a civil marriage according to Staffordshire BMD.

Correct me if I am wrong, this means there was no church wedding and therefore no parish register entry doesn't it? Is there any other way of finding out any details without ordering the certificate? He's not that important to me at this time that I want to spend the money.

[Margaret in Burton]

Civil wedding means Register Office wedding so the only way to find the details is to buy the cert. annoying isn’t it. Staffs BMD will tell you which register office it was and where those records are now held or of course you could still use the GRO.

[kiterunner]

Sometimes you can be lucky and find that someone has attached an image of the marriage certificate to their public tree.

[Olde Crone]

I don't know about Staffordshire bmd, but on the Lancsbmd site, the wording is

"Register office or Registrar attended" which doesn't always mean a registry office wedding, it can sometimes mean a marriage in a place of worship which was not authorised to perform marriages. This concerns quite a few of my nonconformist relatives and there is actually a record in the church or chapel.

OC

[Merry]

Staffordshire BMD indexes say "Civil Marriage" to cover most non-conformist weddings as well as those which took place in a register office. This s what it says on their website:

Until 1898 only Church of England, Jewish and Quaker places of worship were entitled to maintain their own marriage registers. All other non-conformist and Roman Catholic marriages had to be conducted in the presence of a registrar, and are therefore listed as 'Civil Marriages', together with all those conducted at the local register office. After 1898 non-conformist and Roman Catholic churches were allowed to keep their own registers and celebrate their own marriages, and so from that date the records for marriage are much more fragmented.


So, from their index you can't tell if the marriage was in a non-conformist church or chapel, some of which of course have online images and/or online transcriptions, or in a register office.

I think it's a bit of a generalisation to say the part above about "after 1898", as that suggests all non-con churches celebrated their own marriages etc from that date, but I've been to a registrar attended marriage and I'm not that old!! lol

[Margaret in Burton]

I use Staffs BMD a lot, being in Staffordshire. If it’s a register office it says which one, like Burton R/O

[Margaret in Burton]

Staffordshire BMD indexes say "Civil Marriage" to cover most non-conformist weddings as well as those which took place in a register office. This s what it says on their website:

Registrar attended marriages happen a lot now with more weddings being in places other than church or register office. My younger daughters wedding was in a woodland setting licensed for marriages. The registrar performed the ceremony.


So, from their index you can't tell if the marriage was in a non-conformist church or chapel, some of which of course have online images and/or online transcriptions, or in a register office.

I think it's a bit of a generalisation to say the part above about "after 1898", as that suggests all non-con churches celebrated their own marriages etc from that date, but I've been to a registrar attended marriage and I'm not that old!! lol


With a lot of weddings now not being in church or register office then they are registrar attended if they are licensed to perform weddings. My daughter married in a local woodland setting licensed to hold weddings. The local registrar performed the ceremony

[Olde Crone]

Marg

That's really handy. On lancsbmd there's no way of knowing where the civil marriage was performed, only which local RO issued the certificate.

I wonder why the various ukbmd sites vary with the amount of info they give?

OC

[Jill]

You might strike lucky with a newspaper announcement.

[Phoenix]

Marg

That's really handy. On lancsbmd there's no way of knowing where the civil marriage was performed, only which local RO issued the certificate.

I wonder why the various ukbmd sites vary with the amount of info they give?

OC

Because they have all done the transcripts independently. How much was transcribed would depend on how much the project co-ordinator would think was useful/acheiveable.


In the past I have done both parish register and census transcriptions. What was required varied enormously.

[Margaret in Burton]

Marg

That's really handy. On lancsbmd there's no way of knowing where the civil marriage was performed, only which local RO issued the certificate.

I wonder why the various ukbmd sites vary with the amount of info they give?

OC

On LancsBMD does it tell you which church the marriage was performed at? I’ve found StaffsBMD so useful as it names churches

[Olde Crone]

Yes, Lancsbmd tells you if it was a church wedding, but iirc, only tells you which mother church holds the records which isn't necessarily the church where the marriage was performed, if that makes sense. Sometimes you can pick up the correct place by using LAN-OPC to cross reference the marriage, which is handy because then you don't need to buy the certificate.

OC

[Margaret in Burton]

Yes, Lancsbmd tells you if it was a church wedding, but iirc, only tells you which mother church holds the records which isn't necessarily the church where the marriage was performed, if that makes sense. Sometimes you can pick up the correct place by using LAN-OPC to cross reference the marriage, which is handy because then you don't need to buy the certificate.

OC

Staffs BMD tells you exactly which church it was

[Merry]

Staffs BMD tells you exactly which church it was

But not if it was a non-conformist marriage?

[Olde Crone]

Oh, I've answered my own question.

These indexes were originally compiled to be used as a finding aid for registrars and therefore may not contain information of use to the family historian.

OC

[Margaret in Burton]

But not if it was a non-conformist marriage?

Yes they do. I recently came across one that named a local, now demolished, baptist church.

[Kit]

Thanks for the answers and ideas.

I didn't try a newspaper, was too tired to think that much.

Marg this is the entry JOYNSON Elizabeth WAMSLEY Joseph 1855 Civil Marriage (Newcastle-Under-Lyme) Staffordshire Newcastle-Under-Lyme


Does this tell me anything more than it was held at the NUL registry office? I've not picked up on it telling us which church people were married at. I'll check for all marriages I haven't already found on FMP Staffordshire records to see if I can get more information.

Yes, it is annoying that there are no images but in this case it can be purchased online through the RO, which is handy, except I don't really want to buy it at the moment.

I did think to look at other ancestry trees but haven't got back to it yet. Jr has several assignments and I'm helping him organise his time.

[Margaret in Burton]

This is a family member of mine. One party is still living so i removed her name

I know they married at Lichfield Register Office

Staffordshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1959

Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At

**** Leonard G F*****Eileen D Civil Marriage (Lichfield) Lichfield

This is yours

JOYNSON Elizabeth WAMSLEY Joseph Civil Marriage (Newcastle-Under-Lyme) Newcastle-Under-Lyme


The headings at the top do say Church/Register Office

I have recently found this one when researching a friends tree

Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
FLORENCE Raymond B THORPE May Burton-upon-Trent Register Office (B1RO) Newcastle-Under-Lyme B1RO/50/073

It does state Register Office on that one

[Kit]

so no doubts about it. Buy cert or hope someone else has posted it online.

This family is so difficult. That isn't even his surname. I don't know if people can't spell it or if the pronunciation makes the spelling change. He did at least live long enough to appear on a census with his wife.

It's just as well I enjoy the hunt.

[Kit]

Just checked an no online trees have the certificate sadly.

To give you a laugh there is a professional genealogist researching this family and they are clearly giving him grief too, although he may not realise it. He killed off my 3g grandmother 64 years too early and has failed to find any of her 9 children, although 7 of them were born after her "death". Therefore I am a figment of your imagination.