Marjorie Phyllis MAGGS

[KiwiChris]

She was b 1908 Garston Liverpool, mothers maiden name MILLISON
1911 she is in Camberwell with her widowed mother Millicent MAGGS b c1883 Norbiton.

There does not appear to be a Millicent MILLISON birth that I can find.

Marjorie Phyllis MAGGS married Rev Charles Lewis GAGE-BROWN 1957 Kensington

I have spent all afternoon chasing around trying to find who Marjorie's father was, and where Millicent came from and what happened to her, including chasing some complicated marriages of Millicent DAVIS to Henry Albert DOBBINS, followed by John Alfred MAGGS, followed by Albert Job WILTSHIRE, only find she died in 1903, so cannot have had a baby in 1908! I know, she was not nee MILLISON and was too old, but the coincidence was there!

Can anyone find a birth and a marriage for Millicent and what happened to her?

[kiterunner]

I have been looking but not found anything yet. Of course it would help if we knew the father's details from Marjorie's birth or marriage cert. I just keep imagining Millicent being asked for her maiden name and panicking and just saying "Millicent" with the registrar taking it as "Millison"! There is a Millicent Maggs birth around the right time but in totally the wrong place. Will look some more later.

[kiterunner]

Oh, apparently the Millicent Maggs born 1882 in Gloucestershire emigrated to Australia in 1883 where she got married in 1911, so I guess we can rule her out!

[KiwiChris]

I have to say I thought "Millicent Millison, seriously?"

I might go back and look at the marriages and families of Millicent nee DAVIS in case she fits in there somewhere and borrowed the name as a solo mother.

But they were all born and lived in Bristol.

[Merry]

I don't know abouth this, but it keeps bugging me, so I thought I'd pass it on for someone else to try and get to grips with!

The first couple of electoral roll entries for Marjorie Phyllis Maggs show her living at the same address as a Daisy Millicent Williams. For a couple of hours I thought they were probably both servants or similar, particularly as the address said Clarence House! But then I saw this death which may, or may not be the same person:

Name: Daisy Millicent Williams
Death Age: 88
Birth Date: 4 Mar 1883
Registration Date: Sep 1971
Registration district: Hammersmith
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 5b
Page: 1555

She left a lot of money - £66K.

I can't work out who she is, even if not the right Millicent.

Also, there was a Williams living at the same address as Marjorie in 1939. He was Edward Alfred Williams (middle name according to the 1939 eroll) b 28 Apr 1903, single. Obviously could be just a coincidence though.

[kiterunner]

Oh, I definitely came across the name Daisy earlier on when I was looking at this. Will see if I can find it...

[kiterunner]

Ah yes, birth Jan-Mar 1883 Kingston district (which I think would have been the district for Norbiton): MILLICENT, Daisy. MMN is Tandey.

[KiwiChris]

Henry MILLICENT possibly married Emma TANDEY Dec q 1880 Islington and the same people are also listed as marrying Sept q 1881 St Olave

Henry was a 59 yr old widower fellmonger, Emma was a 39 yr old spinster at the 1880 marriage and he was a 49 year old widower, furrier, and she was a 37yr old spinster at the 1881 marriage!
They kept their same fathers though.

1881 There is a married Emma MILLICENT b c1844 Bedford living St Mary Islington with no husband at home.

1881 widowed Henry MILLICENT fellmonger is a boarder in Hillingdon, b c1822 Newbury

And then they vanish!

1891 there is a Daisy MILLISON b c1883 Bermondsey niece of Abraham and Mary TYSOE in Felmersham

It looks like Mary is nee TANDEY

But is Millicent MAGGS really Daisy their daughter??!!

[KiwiChris]

Thinking about the money, Marjorie Phyllis left quite a lot as well, she died 1976 and left about 120K, in 1972 her husband left 58K

[Merry]

Oooh, that's hopeful!!

Hmm, did the parents marry twice?:

Marriages Dec 1880 (>99%)

Millicent Henry Islington 1b 384
SCUTCHING Joseph Islington 1b 384
Scutchings Joseph Islington 1b 384
Tandey Emma Islington 1b 384
Warby Charlotte Islington 1b 384

Marriages Sep 1881 (>99%)

Chadd Thomas St. Olave 1d 362
MILLICENT Henry St. Olave 1d 362
TANDEY Emma St. Olave 1d 362
TUCKER Louisa Maria St. Olave 1d 362

Both of these marriages are in the LMA records:

St John's, Upper Holloway, Islington

27 Dec 1880

Henry Millicent 49 widower furrier 42 Duncombe Rd father William Millicent decd wool sorter
Emma Tandy 37 spinster 42 Duncombe Rd father Thomas Tandey dec'd builder

witnesses Mary Lloyd and Harriet Driffield
All signed, banns

and then...…

St Anne's Bermondsey, Southwark

27 Jul 1881

details basically the same except Henry is now aged 59, fell monger of 36 (?) Abbeyfield Rd and Emma is 39, same address.

Witnesses Mary Ann Pryor and Annie Pryor
All signed, banns

Of course the 1881 census was between these two marriages. There's more than one Henry Millicent in the fur trade, but the likely one is:

38 Rockingham St, Hillingdon
Henry Millicent boarder widower 59 fell monger b Berkshire, Newbury

Whilst Henry hasn't acknowledged his 1880 marriage, Emma has:

42 Duncombe Rd Islington

Emma Millicent wife married 37 b Bedford

Living at the same number but a different household are George and Harriet Driffield (Harriet was a witness at the first marriage)

They are not jumping out at me in 1891! Henry doesn't seem to have died any time, but there is this death for Emma:

Deaths Mar 1887 (>99%)

Millicent Emma Bateman 46 Camberwell 1d 563

I looked back to see if Emma had a middle name at her birth reg. Best fit is:

TANDY, EMMA mmn PATEMAN
GRO Reference: 1840 M Quarter in BEDFORD UNION Volume 06 Page 58

That's close enough, probably! Right place, a little early, good enough name matches!

I looked for siblings for Daisy. I thought Emma Louisa Millicent b Kingston Q2 1881 might be a sister, but the mmn is Tilley. A mistake?

They are not making it easy, are they?!!

Oooh, here's Henry again on FMP:

1911 census:

18 Alma Road Bermondsey, Bermondsey, London & Surrey

Henry Millicent Head Married Male 89 1822 Felmongers Newbery Berkshire
Teresa Millicent Wife Married Female 45 1866 - Islington London

Years married etc not filled in.

Still can't find a death or a marriage to Teresa, but now we know he should be around in 1891 and 1901....

Time for a new post I think!

[Merry]

lol Chris, I've just spent an hour typing the same as you!! (well, some anyway!)

[Merry]

But is Millicent MAGGS really Daisy their daughter??!!

I would say extremely likely. Her dob fits exactly with the birth reg.

[Merry]

If Emma Louisa is her sister, she also 'vanishes'.

[KiwiChris]

It would be very useful to find out how Daisy/Millicent morphs into MAGGS and then WILLIAMS, she does not seem to do it in the UK

I think that we need to look for MILLICENT and MILLISON for the children, as Daisy appears as MILLISON in 1891

[Merry]

If you say Millicent with a London accent you arrive at Milisun, so I can see how Millison might be what's heard.

I expect Daisy just morphed, without any marriages!

[Merry]

I looked for siblings for Daisy. I thought Emma Louisa Millicent b Kingston Q2 1881 might be a sister, but the mmn is Tilley. A mistake?


That's not a mistake - Emma Tilley m James Millicent in 1874 and they were living in Sunbury (Kingston area) in 1891. So we can forget about Emma Louisa Millicent.

[KiwiChris]

I am left wondering how Daisy/Millicent managed to have so much money, I doubt she would have inherited much from her parents, I cannot find probate for either of them, but a couple of wealthy husbands might help!

[Merry]

Here's another confusion!

Remember Marjorie was in the same house as an Edward Alfred Williams b 1903 on the 1939 Register.

National Probate Calendar:

1939

WILLIAMS Percy Joseph of 39 Shaftesbury Avenue Westminster died 24 March 1939 at The Angles 35 Fife Road East Sheen London S.W. 14 Probate London 26 May to Edward Alfred Williams company director and Daisy Millicent Williams spinster. Effects £60623 4s

Normally I would be saying spinster would eliminate this Daisy, but not with these people!! On the other hand these might be a big co-incidence and this Daisy may be the sister of the dec'd or something. Time to plough on....

Percy J Williams death reg shows him to have been born about 1873.

I'm not instantly seeing a birth for him, but there is a marriage in Islington in 1898 to Lydia Emma Fanny Mabel Wise Weston. His father is Thomas Christopher Williams, solicitor. All sounds out of your Daisy's league, but we have to keep going!

So, it does look like Percy's son who is in the same household as Marjorie in 1939:


WILLIAMS, EDWARD ALFRED WISE
mmn WESTON
GRO Reference: 1903 J Quarter in ROMFORD Volume 04A Page 599

I can't see Percy and Edward in 1911, but in 1901 Percy and his wife Lydia are together with a daughter Phyllis aged 2. Percy is b 1873 Islington, so off to see if I can find him and anyone called Daisy!

[Merry]

Here's Percy in 1891 - no straightforward sisters called Daisy!!

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/6598/LNDRG12_171_173-0369/12072080?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1891%26gsfn%3dpercy%26gsln %3dwilliams%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln_x%3d1%26cp%3d11%26 gskw%3dislington%26gskw_x%3d1%26msbdy%3d1873%26msb dy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d2%26qh%3ds7FN6Jy5qkNTrRkuLmadCg %253d%253d%26hc%3d50%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26uidh%3 d672%26redir%3dfalse&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

[KiwiChris]

I have seen Wise as a middle name somewhere else in my circles and excluded that person, if I could only remember who it was!

Edit - I think it was probably that birth for Edward Albert WILLIAMS, so ignore me!

[Merry]

Of course Percy's wife was born:

Lydia F M W Emma Weston
1875
Apr-May-Jun
South Stoneham
Hampshire

and married in 1898, but after 1901 she vanishes!

[Merry]

This could be Percy:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1795/40020_213244-00943/41855979?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dlmaelectoralreg%26gsfn%3dperc y%2bjoseph%26gsln%3dwilliams%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln_x %3d1%26cp%3d11%26qh%3dm%252fz%252f21ftoszc1klSGyUO QQ%253d%253d%26hc%3d20%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26uidh %3d672%26redir%3dfalse&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

with a Millicent Williams!

[Merry]

Remotely possible?

Lydia F C M Williams
abt 1869
Jun 1949
Surrey North eastern
Surrey

I thought if I could tie this one to the 1939 register it might help, but I couldn't!

[Merry]

Edward Alfred seems to have a sister called Mabel:

WILLIAMS, MABEL LYDIA
WESTON
GRO Reference: 1905 S Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 371

as they are together in 1911 without their parents:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2352/rg14_04486_0673_03?pid=50825857&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DgAP8831%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3D1911england %26gsfn%3Dedward%26gsln%3Dwilliams%26gsfn_x%3D1%26 gsln_x%3D1%26cp%3D11%26gskw%3Dessex%26gskw_x%3D1%2 6msbdy%3D1903%26msbdy_x%3D1%26msbdp%3D1%26qh%3DZjq ugyiBVLkUAmlqtEoOUQ%253D%253D%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1 %26uidh%3D672%26redir%3Dfalse%26gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D35%26fh%3D4%26h%3D50825857%26recoff%3D% 26ml_rpos%3D5&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=gAP8831&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

[Merry]

Oh, this is better - eroll 1933

23 Bycullah Rd Enfield

Percy Joseph Williams
Millicent Williams
Edward Alfred Williams
Lilian Wilson

and.....*drum roll* ….Marjorie Maggs!

I remember not looking at that eroll yesterday because the Marjorie Maggs entry had no middle name or initial.

[kiterunner]

All of which is great, but I bet we will never find out who Marjorie's father was without her birth certificate!

[Merry]

lol - good point Kate. I got to the point just now when I couldn't actually remember who Marjorie Maggs was!

I feel pretty sure Daisy Millicent was never married.

[Merry]

This could well be Percy in 1911.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2352/rg14_07149_0525_03/40036793?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3d1911england%26gsfn%3dpercy%26 gsln%3dwilliams%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln_x%3d1%26cp%3d1 1%26gskw%3dislington%26gskw_x%3d1%26msbdy%3d1873%2 6msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d2%26qh%3ds7FN6Jy5qkNTrRkuLm adCg%253d%253d%26hc%3d50%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26ui dh%3d672%26redir%3dfalse&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

Says married 13 years and three living children which fits well.

Did he make all his money from face creams?!!

[kiterunner]

Well, it's a pretty lucrative business nowadays, so I guess it was then too.

[KiwiChris]

Wow, you guys are amazing! I gave up and went to bed just before you got there. :o

Thank you so much.