Help needed finding people on the 1841 and 1851 census

[Margaret in Burton]

This is the family in 1861, they are boarders at the bottom of the page.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8767/SALRG9_1852_1855-0525?pid=19669535&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=UMX3169&_phstart=successSource

Edward age 60 although on the 1871 he's listed as 86
Mary Ann age 63
George age 23
Nathaniel age 35

Edward Florence he died 1871 and his wife Mary Ann who died in 1866
Edward and Mary Ann both claim to have been born in Burton on Trent.

I haven't found their marriage either as yet.

George Florence who died 1881
George was born in Burton, married his wife Bridget in 1857 in Derby

Nathaniel in 1851. I have him in the House of Correction in Derby in 1841.
He was also born in Burton

They moved around a lot. An itinerant sort of lifestyle, travelling around to get work.

[Merry]

This is from FMP 1851. Nathaniel living in Rugeley, Lichfield, Staffs:

Nathaniel Florence Lodger Unmarried Male 27 1824 Plumber & Glazier b Burton on Trent, Staffordshire

[Margaret in Burton]

This is from FMP 1851. Nathaniel living in Rugeley, Lichfield, Staffs:

Nathaniel Florence Lodger Unmarried Male 27 1824 Plumber & Glazier b Burton on Trent, Staffordshire

Thank you Merry

[Phoenix]

Edward is described variously as plumber and brazier - does this mean tinker?

His daughters all seem to marry in Duffield, but one describes her abode as traveller, so they could just be in a tent somewhere.

[kiterunner]

Found the following records on FamilySearch but don't know which (apart from Nathaniel) are the same family:

Edward Florence married Mary Anne Florence 7 Oct 1816 Westbury, Shropshire
Sarah Florence christened 20 Dec 1818 Measham, Derbyshire, parents Edward and Mary Ann
Louisa Florance christened 20 Feb 1820 Abbots Bromley, Staffs, parents Edward and Mary Ann
Nathaniel Florance christened 30 Jul 1823 Burton upon Trent, parents Edward and Mary Ann
Maria Jane Florence christened 20 May 1833 Holy Trinity, Burton upon Trent, parents Edward and Mary

Are some of them the daughters who you mentioned marrying in Duffield, Phoenix?

[kiterunner]

And FreeREG has the baptism of Charlotte, daughter of Edward and Marianne Florence, father's occupation brazier, 11 Jun 1830 at Uttoxeter, Staffs.

[Phoenix]

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/derbyshiremarriages/?name=_florence&count=50&marriage=_derbyshire-england-united+kingdom_5260&marriage_x=0-0-0_1-0&name_x=p_p&pcat=bmd_marriage&qh=3QR6yiw6QRRjmyr3UaMUgQ%3D%3D


Maria Jane
Mary Ann
Charlotte

[Margaret in Burton]

Found the following records on FamilySearch but don't know which (apart from Nathaniel) are the same family:

Edward Florence married Mary Anne Florence 7 Oct 1816 Westbury, Shropshire
Sarah Florence christened 20 Dec 1818 Measham, Derbyshire, parents Edward and Mary Ann
Louisa Florance christened 20 Feb 1820 Abbots Bromley, Staffs, parents Edward and Mary Ann
Nathaniel Florance christened 30 Jul 1823 Burton upon Trent, parents Edward and Mary Ann
Maria Jane Florence christened 20 May 1833 Holy Trinity, Burton upon Trent, parents Edward and Mary

Are some of them the daughters who you mentioned marrying in Duffield, Phoenix?

Not seen Sarah but I think Louisa is a different family. I saw that earlier today and the fathers occupation was totally different

I have Nathaniel and Maria Jane

[Margaret in Burton]

And FreeREG has the baptism of Charlotte, daughter of Edward and Marianne Florence, father's occupation brazier, 11 Jun 1830 at Uttoxeter, Staffs.


I have Charlotte too

[Margaret in Burton]

Edward is described variously as plumber and brazier - does this mean tinker?

His daughters all seem to marry in Duffield, but one describes her abode as traveller, so they could just be in a tent somewhere.

Yes, they are variously described as tinkers.

It's not my family, helping a friend. Not sure what she will think of these occupations, haven't told her yet.

I've not seen the Duffield connection

[Margaret in Burton]

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/derbyshiremarriages/?name=_florence&count=50&marriage=_derbyshire-england-united+kingdom_5260&marriage_x=0-0-0_1-0&name_x=p_p&pcat=bmd_marriage&qh=3QR6yiw6QRRjmyr3UaMUgQ%3D%3D


Maria Jane
Mary Ann
Charlotte

Thanks for that link Brenda. It looks to be them

[kiterunner]

Ooh, have a look at this, Marg!

http://gypsygenealogy.com/showarticle.php?article_id=140

[Margaret in Burton]

Ooh, have a look at this, Marg!

http://gypsygenealogy.com/showarticle.php?article_id=140


Wow, thank you. I’ve printed that out for my friend.

I told her last night of the occupations. She wasn’t surprised, she’d often suspected she had gypsy ancestry. Someone told her years ago that the Florence name came from Florence in Italy but her sister has done a dna test and that doesn’t show any Italian blood.

English 52.6%
Irish, Scottish and Welsh 38.8%
Iberian 5.1%
Baltic 3.5%

Her mother was Irish and I think her 3x great grandmother was too.

[Phoenix]

It might be worth following this project:
https://www2.le.ac.uk/projects/impact-of-diasporas/projects-1/the-romany-in-britain-project


I'm not sure that "coming from Florence" and having no Italian blood are necessarily two incompatible statements if you were an itinerant family. If you were genuinely from Florence, and Italian, might not you call yourself Firenze?