View Full Version : Rev George Thomas BARKER
Can any one find who this chap married and where his son was born please??
George Thomas BARKER was born 17 March 1893 Bedale, and in 1939 he is married to Margaret born 27 June 1892, and they have a son Harold S born 1 October 1916.
The son at various times has the name Harold Sidney Barker, or Harold Sidney Michael Barker. His death in 1992 confirms that date of birth. However his birth does not appear to be registered that quarter, not that I can see anyway!
I was hoping his birth would give me his mothers maiden name, but I have gone around in circles for hours getting nowhere!
The only Harold S born 2 years either side of 1916 is :
Births Jun 1916
Barker Harold S Stride Sculcoates 9d 255
but that is a quarter too early, which doesn't help.
Do you know Harold S M married in 1954?
I looked at that birth, and there is a marriage Sept q 1915 Sculcoates Harold Barker and Mary C Stride.
Yes, I have the marriage for Harold Sidney Michael. Thanks
Do you know from other sources that Harold is the son of George and not some other relation?
Or perhaps he was adopted.
Not many marriages for George and Margaret in any case!
kiterunner
04-03-19, 09:16
Maybe they got married in a different country? And maybe Harold was born in a different country?
You probably have this already:
Lincolnshire Echo 23 September 1926
states that the Rev. George Thomas Barker B.A. was a graduate of Selwyn College Cambridge and was trained at Ely Theological College. Ordained 1916 at Lichfield (Staffs) and has since been assistant curate at St Andrew's Walsall (Staffs). He has now been appointed assistant curate at St Nicholas and St John, Newport and the chapel of St Mathias, Lincoln.
kiterunner
04-03-19, 09:22
George Thomas Barker dob 17 Mar 1893 died Oct-Dec 1982 Aylesbury, and there is a 1982 probate entry: BARKER George Thomas of Ellesborough Manor Ellesborough Aylesbury died 24 October 1982 Probate Oxford 24 November Not exceeding £25000.
His ordination was reported in the Derbyshire Advertiser and Journal 01 April 1916, so, six months before Harold's birth and he was appointed to work at Walsall:
George Thomas Barker. B.A., Selwyn College and Cambridge and Ely Theological College, to St. Andrew’s, Walsall
kiterunner
04-03-19, 09:26
And Margaret Barker, dob 27 Jun 1892, died Jul-Sep 1969 Aylesbury. I can't see a probate entry for her. I was hoping she might have a middle name on her death registration.
kiterunner
04-03-19, 09:37
There is a George T Barker / Margaret Robinson marriage Apr-Jun 1926 Bedford. Any newspaper notices?
I saw that marriage, but though I did look for newspaper records I think it was before I got to the marriage.
Off out in three mins.....
Sorry, been asleep!
I think on his marriage in 1954 Harold was described as the only son of George and Margaret.
I was wondering about adoption, or that he was the son of Margaret from an earlier marriage and they had married after 1916.
There are a number of Harold S births Dec q1916, but none are Robinson.
He clearly was considered a son....
07 January 1949 - Bucks Herald - Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
…..inducted vicar of Wingrave at the Parish Church of SS Peter and Paul. The new Vicar, 55 years of age, married with one son (the Rev. H. S. M. Barker, senior assistant priest at St. Saviour's Church. St. George’s Square. London. S.W.1), succeeds the Rev. Francis Stuart …..
There's a photo of George alongside this article!
Oh my goodness, I think I may have sorted this some 3 years later!
George Thomas Barker was a single Clerk in Holy Orders at the St Andrews vicarage Walsall in 1921, so Harold born in 1916 cannot be his biological son
A George T Barker married Margaret Robinson June q 1926 registered Bedford
In 1939 Margaret was born 27 June 1892
In 1921 a Margaret Robinson was at 85 Highgate Road Walsall, single born Walsall, age 28 years 11 months, and she is with her widowed father and her brother
So that age would make her born later in June or in early July, so her age fits perfectly.
What does not fit is why, if this is them, the marriage was registered in Bedford. From 1916-1926 George was curate in Walsall, and 1926-1928 he was the curate at St Nicholas and St John Newport and the chapel of St Mathias city of Lincoln
Can anyone find anything to confirm this is the correct Margaret??
I don't think that marriage (1926) is your couple. There are Barker/Robinson children b in Bedford district after 1926 and they appear on trees with father George Thomas Barker and Margaret Robinson, but this couple are younger than yours. Can't find them in 1939 yet though.
Oh bother! It was fitting together so nicely!!!!
I looked at the children registered 1916 Q4 registered Harold S and checked their middle names on the GRO index. I got rid of all those not middle name S?dney and was left with about a dozen. It was easy to eliminate some of those, mostly via a clear death reg and/or an appearence in 1939 whilst 'your' Harold was with George and Margaret. That left these four:
Beckerleg Harold Sidney Francis Beckerleg Penzance 5c 300 EDIT: eliminated - see later posts.
Pacey Harold Sidney Hodson Lincoln 7a 803 EDIT: eliminated - see post #23
Rippin Harold Sydney Rippin Spilsby 7a 905
Rogers Harold Sidney Surman Aston 6d 836 EDIT: eliminated - see post #24
Obviously it's quite possible none of these are your Harold as he may havebegun life with different forenames, but worth ploughing on when there are ony four left. I have run out of time now, but here's what my thoughts are on the above:
1) Can't find him in 1921, maybe with his now-married mother and new surname? Don't remember how hard I looked for a death either Harold H S (no surname) or Harold Sidney F (no surname)!
2) Good for area. Found in 1921 with parents and siblings. Father died 1938 (I think - John R Pacey). Found younger sister with her older sibling in 1939. Not on CWGC website. No death found in Eng/Wales.
3) Didn't have time to begin. Good for area, similar to 1) but no time to look.
4) common name, so need to try harder for a death/1939! Not looked 1921.
kiterunner
18-10-22, 09:14
I think Harold Beckerleg is down as Beckerley on the 1921.
Thanks. I see he was also indexed as Gliddon and that's the name on his death reg, so another one eliminated.
In 1939 Audrey G Rippin b 1921 is Audrey G Rook as her mother, Maggie Rippin, married Walter Rook in 1922 and I guess it's likely Maggie is also the mother of Harold S Rippin (Audrey and Harold both being illegitimate and not many Rippins around Spilsby district). Unfortunately i can't find any of them in 1921 under Rippin or Rook yet to confirm. Audrey was reg in Q2 1921 so a good chance she was alive for the census, but that's not helping.
EDIT: Audrey has dob 7 May 1921 on the 1939 Register.
I'm thinking this is Harold Sidney Pacey:
PACEY, SIDNEY HAROLD 12
GRO Reference: 1929 M Quarter in LINCOLN Volume 07A Page 912
Harold Rogers died in 1920:
Deaths Mar 1920 (>99%)
ROGERS Harold S 3 Aston 6d 599
I'm pretty sure that's him as I found his parents and siblings in 1921 and he isn't there.
kiterunner
18-10-22, 12:38
"Audaley G Rippen" born 1921 is at New Leake, Lincolnshire, on the 1921 census.
Other household members:
Harold T Rippen born 1916
Joshua Millard born 1862
Charlotte Millard born 1872
William J Millard born 1908
John Henry Millard born 1909.
kiterunner
18-10-22, 12:42
And "Maggie Rippon" born 1900 Eastville, Lincs, is at Orby, Lincs, on the 1921 census.
Maggie Rippin's birth was registered in 1900 so she can't be Margaret in post #1.
Just this one left:
1916 Q4 Births:
Rippin Harold Sydney Rippin Spilsby 7a 905
I've finally found him in 1921 (listed as Harold T Rippen b 1916). He is with his sister/half sister/cousin, Audrey (transcribed Audaley) and his maternal grandmother and her husband, Charlotte and Joshua Millard.
The mother of Audrey is Maggie Rippin who was a live-in general servant in 1921 and married Walter Rook in 1922. This couple have Audrey with them in 1939 and her surname is Rook, suggesting Walter may have been her father. I have looked for Harold's death (inc CWGC) or 1939 entry with surname Rook to no avail.
Maggie may also have been Harold's mother, but Maggie did have a sister, Mabel Rippin b 1902 who was also a live-in general servant in 1921. She would have been about 15 when Harold was born. I don't think these two sisters had any older siblings. Their mother, Charlotte, looks to have been unmarried when they were born and married Joshua Millard in 1908.
Mabel Rippin was still single in 1939 and living in a home for the blind.
So, was Harold brought u by his grandparents and what happened to them?
Death of grandfather:
Deaths Mar 1927 (>99%)
Millard Joshua W 63 Spilsby 7a 827
Death of grandmother:
Deaths Jun 1925 (>99%)
Millard Charlotte 51 Spilsby 7a 609
There's a report on the death and funeral of Joshua Westmoreland Millard in the Boston Guardian 05 March 1927. He died of 'flu at New Leake, Lincs which is about 40 miles from Lincoln.
At the funeral were (amongst others), Miss Mabel Rippin, step-daughter and Harold (grandson). They also sent a joint floral tribute. Maggie did not attend (or the journalist missed her), but there was a floral tribute from Mrs W Rooke.
So... I wonder if Harold just went off and did his own thing as soon as he was old enough - maybe in the military or merchant navy - perhaps he died abroad? Or was he 'adopted' by the Barkers? Seems pretty unikely given he was still with his family at age 11.
And "Maggie Rippon" born 1900 Eastville, Lincs, is at Orby, Lincs, on the 1921 census.
Maggie Rippin's birth was registered in 1900 so she can't be Margaret in post #1.
No I agree, but I was thinking more along the lines of a child with no family being taken in by the vicar as he didn't have any children with his wife, rather than Margaret (Mrs Barker) being Harold's mother .
I am now leaning towards Harold being adopted by both George and Margaret, rather than him being Margaret's son by an earlier marriage
I am working through 1921 looking for a suitable Harold with a dead father and mother Margaret, but nothing looks likely. None of them are Harold S or Harold Sidney.
I think that given the time that a marriage happened, if he is Margaret's child, it is much more likely that Margaret would have been a widow rather than single with a child, and certainly not divorced.
Skegness News 03 February 1954
Article about the marriage of Harold S Barker and Margaret Gelsthorpe. Usual blurb, but includes this:
......the Rev. Harold S. M. Barker, Vicar of St. Peter-le-Poer, Muswell Hill, who was born at Orby near Skegness. ....... His father, the Rev. G. T. Barker, now Vicar of Wingrave, near Aylesbury, celebrated a nuptual mass.......
I've looked at all the male children (any name) listed as b Orby on the 1921 census and none of them stand out at the moment!
There is a private Ancestry tree with Harold on it, I have messaged the tree owner, but they have not been on line for months, so I don't hold out much hope of a reply.
kiterunner
19-10-22, 09:40
Merry, what is "Harold T Rippen"'s birthplace on the 1921 census? The free transcription just says Lincolnshire. Harold Sydney Rippin's birth was registered in Spilsby district, which was the district which included Orby.
Hundlesby, just outside Spilsby (and Audaley too).
Merry, what is "Harold T Rippen"'s birthplace on the 1921 census? The free transcription just says Lincolnshire. Harold Sydney Rippin's birth was registered in Spilsby district, which was the district which included Orby.
Good question!
Hundleby, Lincs which is about 7 miles from Orby. And as you said before, Maggie Rippin was working in Orby in 1921.
The Spilsby Poor Law Union Workhouse was located in Hundlesby.
Edit:
https://www.workhouses.org.uk/Spilsby/#:~:text=Spilsby%20Union%20workhouse%20was%20built ,cost%20%C2%A3around%20%C2%A33%2C500.
Interesting.
I found a newspaper article about the death of Charlotte Millard in 1925. It didn't help any more than the one for her husband except to mention Mrs Rooke (dau) was of Orby.
Agree with Merry - If the Barkers were childless it's possible /probable that they took Harold in (and his sister too?) if the Millards could not look after them anymore when Joshua died. I can't see George in the clergy database.
Worth getting the bc for Harold?
(and his sister too?)
Sister Audrey appears as Audrey G Rook in 1939 and is living with her mother and (step?)father, Maggie and Walter Rook, Maggie Rippin having married Walter Rook in 1922. I imagined Walter Rook taking on Audrey as he was her father but not the father of Harold, hence he was left with the grandparents until they died.
It looks as if Mabel Rippin (Harold's aunt) was blind by about 1927 as there are articles re raising money for her care in the newspapers.
Of course the other issue is why can we not find a marriage for George and Margaret?
After Walsall between 1916 - 1828, he was at St Nich. Lincs. (There is a St Nicholas church at East Kirkby and Partney both nr Spilsby ). Then from 1928 > Orby Vicarage, Burgh le Marsh. See Attachment.
He probably knew the family pretty well as they lived in a very rural small area.
ElizabethHerts
19-10-22, 14:28
Bucks Herald 22 October 1948
This gives some biographical details about the Reverend George Thomas Barker.
It also states that Mrs Barker comes from Walsall in Staffordshire.
I noticed that George worked there for a while.
His mother is also mentioned.
Name: Thomas Barker
Marriage Age: 27
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Year: abt 1865
Marriage Date: 11 May 1892
Marriage Place: Potternewton, St Martin, Yorkshire, England
Parish as it Appears: Potternewton, St Martin
Father: George Barker
Spouse: Jane Elizabeth Strangwayes
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0000270%2f19481203%2f098&stringtohighlight=barker
ElizabethHerts
19-10-22, 14:41
The only marriage I can find in Walsall has the wrong second initial for George:
First name(s) George S
Last name Barker
Marriage quarter 2
Marriage year 1923
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ George S Barker married one of these people Margaret M Norton
Spouse's last name Norton
District Walsall
District number -
County Staffordshire
Country England
Volume 6B
Volume as transcribed 6B
Page number 1345
Record set England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Marriage & Divorce
Collections from Great Britain, England
ElizabethHerts
19-10-22, 14:47
Bucks Herald 22 October 1948
"Before his appointment at Orby he held curacies at St Andrew, Walsall, and St Nicholas, Lincoln."
Edit: Apologies for repeating the Walsall details. I'm trying to see if he married there as his wife was reportedly from Walsall.
The only marriage I can find in Walsall has the wrong second initial for George:
First name(s) George S
Last name Barker
Marriage quarter 2
Marriage year 1923
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ George S Barker married one of these people Margaret M Norton
Spouse's last name Norton
District Walsall
District number -
County Staffordshire
Country England
Volume 6B
Volume as transcribed 6B
Page number 1345
Record set England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Marriage & Divorce
Collections from Great Britain, England
I looked at that one, but I don't remember what happened! I don't remember discounting it!
Oh, because this is them:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/61596/images/tna_r39_5332_5332f_004?backlabel=ReturnSearchResul ts&queryId=1a210c216e57aa75e263744ae9968a46&pId=44700741
the son has mmn Norton
kiterunner
19-10-22, 15:11
Margaret Robinson from Walsall still fits, apart from the problem of the possible other couple who could be the ones who married in Bedford in 1926.
This one?
ROBINSON, MARGARET SCHNABEL
GRO Reference: 1892 S Quarter in WALSALL Volume 06B Page 758
No baptism for her; annoying as most have dob in Walsall records.
Parents William Henry and Lydia Agnes E m 1874.
ElizabethHerts
19-10-22, 17:06
Lydia was born in Germany.
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBC/1901/0016492871&expand=true
They had at least 9 children.
That is the Margaret that I thought solved the mystery because her age in 1921 seemed to fit with Margaret in 1939
George was in Walsall 1916-1926, Lincoln 1926-1928 and Orby 1928-1949. You would think he married Margaret before he left Walsall, or soon afterwards
kiterunner
19-10-22, 18:18
I do think that 1926 Bedford marriage is the right one but can't find anything to prove it without ordering a copy of the cert.
The Barker/Robinson children born in Bedford after 1926 are all missing/hidden from the 1939 Register and I can't find a sensible match for the parents, but of course GT Barker might have been in the services. A tree with this family included has the father b 1905 Bedford (but there's isn't a matching GRO entry) and only a death for Margaret in 1982 in Bedford (and again, no match in the GRO index). So the tree may be rubbish!
kiterunner
19-10-22, 18:26
There is a Percy H Barker / Alice M Robinson marriage Jan-Mar 1922 St Ives and I think the Barker / Robinson births in Bedford may belong to that couple and that the ancestry trees are wrong. This is the Percy and Alice couple in 1939, in Bedford, with two closed records:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/61596/images/tna_r39_1959_1959f_002?backlabel=ReturnSearchResul ts&queryId=7ce8ab47c1ddb47fe8c13f35e50a13e1&pId=410850
Edit - forgot to add that the middle name of one of the children fits with the names of this couple.
Oh, yes, that looks right! I just saw the son on the Bedford erolls (1950s) and the person with him was Alice. I was just looking to work out whether that was his wife or his mother, but luckily I came back in here first!
Ok, so George and Margaret eloped to Bedford!! I can't think why they would have married there?!! And they then took on HS Rippin some time after the death of his grandfather in 1927.
Margaret Robinson is at 85 Highgate Road, Walsall, Staffordshire in 1921 with her widower father and a brother.
kiterunner
19-10-22, 19:04
Chris posted that in post #16, Merry.
There is another George Barker / Margaret Robinson marriage registered Hunslet June q 1921.
George was born Bedale so we are in the right county LOL. Did they go to his family to marry?
1939 I think his widowed father Thomas Barker b 10 November 1864 is a widowed farmer Morton Hall Farm Northallerton, I am just trying to find him in 1921
kiterunner
19-10-22, 19:17
The 1921 census was 19 Jun 1921, so if they got married in the Apr-Jun quarter of 1921 it would have had to be in the last 11 days of June.
kiterunner
19-10-22, 19:19
Also there is a Florence Barker birth Jul-Sep 1921 Hunslet, MMN Robinson.
Also there is a Florence Barker birth Jul-Sep 1921 Hunslet, MMN Robinson.
Yes, just found that! Ok, that is not them.
That Florence probably belongs to this couple:
Marriages Jun 1921
Barker George Robinson Hunslet 9b 1042
Robinson Margaret Barker Hunslet 9b 1042
They are together in 1921 aged 23 and 25 respectively.
Rev George Thomas Barker married Margaret Robinson in 1926 according to this press cutting attached.
Youngest daughter of WH Robinson F.R.A.S. and well-known Staffs antiquary.
Edit: 08 December 1948 - Skegness News - Skegness, Lincolnshire
This one?
ROBINSON, MARGARET SCHNABEL
GRO Reference: 1892 S Quarter in WALSALL Volume 06B Page 758
No baptism for her; annoying as most have dob in Walsall records.
Margaret's brother on 1921 census is:
First name(s) Bertram Scknabel
Last name Robinson
Full address as transcribed 85 Highgate Rd, Walsall.
Margaret had several brothers and sisters one of whom was Agnes Ellen. Checked out the 1921 census looking for Agnes Ellen, age 40+/-2 b Walsall living in Bedfordshire.
1921 census:
Agnes Ellen Burnett widow b 1880 Walsall, Staffs.
W. Andrew Burnett son b 1908 Hednesford, Staffs. (10 m from Walsall) Father dead
Living 26 St Cuthberts, Bedford Park, St Peter, Bedfordshire, England
BURNETT, WILLIAM ANDREW mmn ROBINSON
GRO Reference: 1908 D Quarter in CANNOCK Volume 06B Page 476 (Staffs nr Walsall))
1911 Census For England & Wales
Rawnsley House, Cannock, Staffordshire, England
William Burnett Head Married M 30 1881 Colliery manager Staffs Tatenhill
Agnes Ellen Burnett Wife Married F 31 1880 Staffs Walsall
William Andrew Burnett Son M 2 1909 Staffs Hednesford
Sarah Ann Wadeley Servant Single F 21 1890 General servant Staffs Hednesford
Marriages Jun 1906 Walsall 6b 1253
Burnett William
ROBINSON Agnes Ellen
ElizabethHerts
20-10-22, 15:02
Well done, Kat.
I don't know why I didn't find this earlier:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0000766%2f19260626%2f288&stringtohighlight=margaret%20robinson
Walsall Observer 26 June 1926
MISS MARGARET ROBINSON WEDS.
Youngest daughter of the late Mr. W. H. Robinson, of Highgate, Miss Margaret Robinson was married on Tuesday to the Rev. George T. Barker, who until recently was on the clerical staff at St. Andrew’s, Birchills, the ceremony taking place at Bedford, where, since the death of her father, the bride has made her home with a sister, Mrs. Burnett. It was a quiet wedding, but among the guests were two who had come all the way from India – Colonel and Mrs. Willmore, son-in-law and daughter of the late Mr. Robinson. A change in the date of the wedding made it impossible for the Bishop of Lincoln (a godparent of the bride), to fulfil his promise to officiate, but Mr. and Mrs. Barker have been invited to be his guests at the Palace for a few days, and it is understood that the bridegroom is receiving an appointment in Lincoln.
kiterunner
20-10-22, 15:30
Ah, that explains why Bedford.
Good find, Elizabeth :)
I shouldn't have assumed that the papers had already been searched for Margaret's marriage and went a bit around the houses to find the Bedford link!
Thank you!!
I had searched the papers for a marriage for George as George Thomas, George T and GT, and found nothing. I tried again just now and that report did not come up until I searched for Margaret Robinson.
Great I can now label him as "complete"!!
ElizabethHerts
20-10-22, 18:23
Thank you!!
I had searched the papers for a marriage for George as George Thomas, George T and GT, and found nothing. I tried again just now and that report did not come up until I searched for Margaret Robinson.
Great I can now label him as "complete"!!
I'm so pleased that a joint effort got a result for you, Chris.
Good find, Elizabeth :)
I shouldn't have assumed that the papers had already been searched for Margaret's marriage and went a bit around the houses to find the Bedford link!
I didn't look for it using her name as I thought Margaret Robinson wasn't the correct bride. I did however, look for stuff in the papers for George T Barker, and in particular a marriage. Unfortunately his name was read by the OCR as, " Rec. 11:strge T. Harker", so I didn't find it.
I didn't look for it using her name as I thought Margaret Robinson wasn't the correct bride. I did however, look for stuff in the papers for George T Barker, and in particular a marriage. Unfortunately his name was read by the OCR as, " Rec. 11:strge T. Harker", so I didn't find it.
That is the one I found! Should have trusted my gut and looked for Margaret!
It has been fun looking, thanks everyone!
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